Yep, I'm from back east and the only thing I know about shooting Elk is what I read on the net and see on television.

Frankly, the stories seem to run the gammit so far in both directions that the truth must lie somewhere in the middle, but where?

My thoughts are, and again I've never shot an Elk, that they can't be bullet proof. A well placed shot from 300 yards or less from a 7mag. or larger, in and out through the boiler room (ie. heart, lungs) may not slam them to the ground like a whitetail but should bring them down without much fuss. After all, as big as they may be, they are still animals and not immortals.

How far off am I on my thinking?

1. they are susceptible to cessation of primary organ function. correct.

2. proper shot placement is a requirement to achieve number 1. correct.

3. appropriate caliber with appropriate bullet helps achive desired result. correct.

4. they're big, tenacious animals with a strong desire to live. failing numbers 2 & 3 will cause you to suffer greatly.

Far from being an expert on the subject but I do have a little experience. As you guessed I believe the truth lies somewhere in the middle. While they hardly require a gun mounted on wheels they are very tough. I have seen both sides...I watched a fella using a 7mm Mag hammer a large bull 5 times in a span of seconds only to watch that beast walk in to the dark timber requiring alot of tracking to locate. All were hits but angling away they failed to get to the vitals. On the other hand I shot one once in the back of the head with a 32 Win Sp. that dropped so fast I thought it disappeared. Pick good bullets up to the task and shoot 'em where they live.

Elk are big tough animals. They can take a lot of lead before dieing sometimes. They can be put down with a single well placed shot where they stand...or they can RUN and i do meen RUN off to the nastiest place they can find to die. Which will make packin it out a two or three day event!...I'm speaking from experience here
I prefer 200gr to 280gr controlled expansion bullets, Nosler AB or PT, Swift AF or Northfork. And i also prefer a shoulder shot so they don't run off. I want them on the ground right there! Well, i need to go load up some 286gr Nosler Partions for my 9.3x64 for this season...

Good bullets and shot placement are the keys.
I have never had an elk lost. I have never tracked one more than 100ft.
Mine have been shot with 308 win, and 338 win mag.
Good bullets and taking the right shot. That is it man. They are just big ass deer. Mystical crap aside.
MM

I have shot a total of "one" elk in my lifetime so I'm far from being an expert. I shot it with a 17" Bullberry Encore pistol with a 150 grain Accubond/Varget handload in the front shoulder quartering to me at about 80 yards. It dropped in its tracks. After it fell, I put another insurance round in it on the opposite side.



I'm leaving in 4 weeks to try it again. More than likely I will use the .308 pistol again.

The most important part of killing an elk is getting a bullet into the vitals. If you can shoot a 7mm Mag accurately, take that. I'm not a big fan of recoil so I tend to shoot a 270ish or lighter if I can. I have never had a problem with any elk... yet.

Elmer Keith explained it this way.
The most common shot he'd seen on elk was a quartering away shot.
A good sized bull elk paunch containing grass and water can weigh 300 lbs.That slows bullets very efficiently !
Those two points made him a fan of cartridges like 35 Whelan. 338 WM, 375 H&H. And those with heavy well constructed bullets like Nosler etc.

quote:

Originally posted by SteveM70:
Frankly, the stories seem to run the gammit so far in both directions that the truth must lie somewhere in the middle, but where?

Elk don't go far without air; lung shots work. If they're shot in one leg, they'll walk 20 miles on the other three legs, and so forth. Caliber is no substitute for shot placement. I've walked away from shots that were too long or too iffy, so have no experience with that realm.

I have shot 5 elk, four with a .280 and one with a .300win mag. All were one shot kills at 250 yards or less, all were shot in the lungs and heart. All died within 50 yards of where they were hit.

My elk hunting buddy has taken 40+ elk, all with a .270 shooting 150gr bullets. Most were one shot kills. The most was 5 shots.

All in all, placement is everything - not bullet size. Any well made bullet from 6mm to .308 will kill an elk if hit in the vital area.

No animal is easy to kill when shot in the leg or guts.

I'm no expert on elk by any means but every one I've shot didn't hardly take a step. The only one that ever required a second shot to kill was a spine shot cow elk I shot with a .30-06. I was above her shooting down and hit her behind the shoulders, broke the spine and exited without doing any serious damage to major organs. The rest of my elk (all cows) I've killed with a .270 Win and 150 grain Nosler Partitions out to 250 yards which is my longest shot to date. None of my elk ever went more than 25 yards from where I shot them, and I hope I stay that consistent.

If my count is correct, I've personally killed 17 elk and have been in on the taking of about 80 others during my lifetime. So, I've seen a bunch of them shot. Some died quick and some took a little while.

I have shot elk with a 54 blackpowder rifle, a 50 caliber blackpowder rifle, a 30-30 Win, a 30-40 Krag, a 30-06, a 6.5x55 Swedish, a 7mm Rem Mag, a 300 Win Mag, a 350 rem Mag, 375 H&H Mag, and a 450 Marlin. Most of these elk only took a single bullet to bring down. It all comes down to putting a decently made bullet into the right place.

Of all the elk I've taken and seen taken, most fell to 7 Mags. My brother, father and myself have all shot this round for years. We normally use a handload of a 160 gr Nosler, tailored to each rifle. My rifle likes the round just a little milder than my father's and my brother's rifle likes it fairly hot. All the rifles shoot the bullet well, we just have to play with the powder a little. We use IMR 4831 since it gave us the best results.

So, are they bullet proof? No. Are they easy to kill? Sometimes. Bottom line is nothing lives with a bullet hole through it's lungs or heart. If you get a bullet into the vitals, you can plan on eating liver and onions that same night.

Mac

Just a note elk are about 4X the size of most deer and will run miles if not hit well.

They are not hard to kill. Just expensive.

quote:

x-caliber:

Where did you take that elk; Colorado?

Yes I killed him near the town of Yampa, Colorado. Here is the story from last year if you are interested.

My 2007 Elk Hunt

The one I shot was far enough away that the 180 nosler partition did not penetrate the knuckle bone in his upper leg. I would say bigger is better and closing the distance is very important. good luck.

Most of my hunting buds use a 7 Mag with good success on their elk, with proper shot placement of course. An elk is a much bigger animal than a deer, and when one is used to seeing 175lb deer even a cow elk is a load! Shot placement is everything. That being said I find that poorly shot elk will make you work for them and exhibit a toughness and "will to live" beyond deer.

I use a .338 Lapua for my mulie and elk rifle, and yes it is "overkill" for most. I use it becuase I like the rifle, shoot it well and am confident of its abilities. Although in perfect conditions a broadside heart/lung shot is preferred I want a rifle/bullet combo that can come through in less than perfect conditions.

Use a rifle that you are comfortable with and can shoot well. Elk are not bulletproof, but they are pretty big, tough animals. Put a bullet on the spot you are good to go.

John

quote:

Originally posted by 30378:
They are not hard to kill. Just expensive.

The reason I have no experience hunting elk

I would like my first trip west to be a visit to the Grand Canyon or an elk hunt. Preferably the elk hunt.

Obligations to family and work come first and damned if it don't seem that anytime I get close to making this dream a reality it angers the money gods Ol' well, someday!

Great posts so far. I'm learning that a properly shot elk should go down quick while a poorly shot elk can be a nightmare. About the same as deer only 4x heavier, go 4x further, and 8x harder to get out.

quote:

Originally posted by x-caliber:
I have shot a total of "one" elk in my lifetime so I'm far from being an expert. I shot it with a 17" Bullberry Encore pistol with a 150 grain Accubond/Varget handload in the front shoulder quartering to me at about 80 yards. It dropped in its tracks. After it fell, I put another insurance round in it on the opposite side.



I'm leaving in 4 weeks to try it again. More than likely I will use the .308 pistol again.

If your barrel is really 17 inches long then you are committing a felony. 16.5 inches and shorter is a pistol. You need to check with the BATF and find out ASAP!

A rifle may not be shorter than 16.5 and a pistol may not be longer. That .5 of an inch could land your ass in federal prison. Hard cold facts, be careful!

D99 A pistols barrels can be as long as one wants. A long barrel does not make a pistol into a short barreled rifle.

A short barrel on a rifle action can make a rifle into a violation.

Adding a butt stock to a under 16 inch barreled pistol turns it into a short barrel rifle adding a butt stock to a 16 and longer barrel pistol turns it into a rifle.

There is no violation here.

quote:

There is no violation here.

What p dog shooter said.

Let's not get SteveM70's thread sidetracked with this subject. It has been discussed a number of times on the single shot pistol forum if anyone is interested.

I'm going to kinda disagree. An elk isn't bulletproof. A proper bullet in the proper place will kill a elk handily true enough. But a shot to the big middle or one of those vague "heart, lung area" shots that folks talk about can leave you with a looong tracking job or an unfound pile of coyote feed. A high lung shot elk can travel a long ways before leaving any blood trail and these super hard, bonded bullets driven at warp speed can pencil thru doing little damage if they're not placed pretty precisely. So a fellow still has to do his homework and practice, practice, practice from field positions and when confronted with this animal that is way bigger than a whitetail, he still has to pick his spot pretty carefully.

quote:

Originally posted by SteveM70:
I would like my first trip west to be a visit to the Grand Canyon or an elk hunt. Preferably the elk hunt.

Don't miss the north rim if you can help it; it's a little more trouble to go there (there are about 200 miles of Colorado River with no bridges between Marble Canyon and Boulder Dam) but worth it in my opinion. If you can see both sides of the canyon in one trip, it's splendid.

No amount of looking at pictures can prepare you for your first look into the canyon.

In a real sense the comments about elk can also be said about deer.

Bullet placement is still king in any big game hunting and especially when a 25 yard walk can place the animal out of sight and require some tracking to find again.

Use a caliber and bullet capable of good penetration and put it in the right place. Elk may be bigger but the cartridges used for deer most often are far greater than the requirements for deer.

As said earlier.....they are more expensive.... and that says a lot.

In African plains game folks usually use larger cartridges but many of the shots at African game are $1000-$2,000 shots.....and if you draw blood but don't kill the animal the fee is still due and payable. It seems that the cost is possibly more relevant here than the actual tenacity of the animal.....remember....deer can be very difficult to kill too.....just ask folks that didn't hit them well!

D99....definitely not cold hard facts. Another case of internet misinformation that not seems to unwind itself.
As mentioned a pistol barrel can be any length the owner desires. The ATF problems stem from short rifle barrels.

i have been on many elk hunts. They can run a ways after being hit well, especially if they were hit when running in the first place. If you are hunting public land you will probably find a lot of adrenalined up elk ready to run a piece. Good hits make all the difference in the world and good bullets in the 270, 7MM RM and 30-06 are all you need.

I'll have to admit that, when younger, I was a Weatherby theory believer. As i've grown older and more experienced, I can see where his ideas hold merit most of the time. However, Elmer Keith wasn't wrong either. I've killed elk with the .270 and up through the .375H&H. My current favorit is a wildcat .338WSM with 210gr Nosler partitions. I do grab the .375 when hunting with others and use it on tracking missions because, if I see an elk wounded by another hunter, I don't want it to go far if I shoot it again. As old as I am, I don't want to walk umpteen miles after it.

+1 to what rickt said,

It can really depend on if the elk are calm or pumped up. If they're pumped, you gotta hit em with a howitzer, in the right spot. I've seen elk run a long ways, hit very well "in the boiler room" as people like to say.

I've watched a bull through my rifle scope, shot in the right spot with a .270, spraying blood out the exit wound with each heartbeat, calmly continuing to walk around like it wasn't even hit, until it fell over. It was calm when shot, it never started running, but if it had, it could have covered a LOT of ground. I did keep my crosshairs of my 338 on it, but I wasn't gonna shoot it, unless it took off running. It was my buddy's kill, and he said to hold off. It didn't take long.

And for the record, I'm not picking on the .270, it's just an example I witnessed from my buddy's .270. It's all he's hunted with, and he's killed every elk he's ever pointed it at. He just doesn't shoot at them if they're running.

I think the biggest difference between elk and deer is (other than the size), deer get it into their heads to run, and they usually run a couple hundred yards, then (if no one's shooting at them), they stop, look back, and say, "what the @&%$@! was that?!"

Elk, when they get it into their heads to run, will run into the next county before the realize that they forgot the reason why they were running in the first place.

It's like deer are short distance sprinters, and elk are long distance marathon runners. Like an elk in AZ will say, "I think I'll run to CO, just for the heck of it."

It comes down to you never really know what any animal is gonna do when it's shot, they can each react differently. Making a good shot is more important than what you use.

I shoot a .338 WM from my own choice, no one else has to. I always hunt public land, there's always too much hunting pressure, and I think that has a lot to do with my choice.

quote:

Originally posted by SteveM70:
I would like my first trip west to be a visit to the Grand Canyon or an elk hunt. Preferably the elk hunt.

Why not do both . Unit 9 this year for cow elk next month . Units 9 and 10 are at the South Rim.

Ken....

I have taken a few Elk in my life and have seen alot of Elk killed helping others. What everyone has said is pretty much been my expirence. Anything in the vitals will take them down pretty quickely. Although I have not seen very many "Bang Flops". Most of the Elk hit in vitals I have seen have gone 75 yards max. However, liver shots, high lungs, or anything other than vital shots will be an all day expirence. I have seen Elk go 10 miles after a center punched liver.

Rule of thumb if this happens, patience is key. Don't push the wounded and odds are he will not go far. Let him bed and wait an hour. In my expirence they get so stiff from blood loss you can easily finish off the job. Job if a lion gets his trail or coyote, you are in for some serious work because they are going to push him until he collapses which can be many many miles.

There will to live in my expirence is much more than deer.

quote:

Originally posted by MyNameIsEarl:
Although I have not seen very many "Bang Flops". Most of the Elk hit in vitals I have seen have gone 75 yards max.

Actually , my first elk, a 7x6 bull (13 years old) was a bang flop !! My guide said that he was the biggest bodied elk that he had ever seen. I shoot a .338 MAG with 210 grain Nosler Partitions that leave the muzzle at 3050 fps. The shot was about 175 yards , and at the shot he simply disappeared from view. When I stood up, he was on the ground. I estimate that I whacked him with in excess of 4000 lbs/ft of energy.

I have also shot elk with a .300 Mag and a bow. They will die if the shot is in the "pump station", as Ted Nugent states. I will say that the most dramatic kill was with my .338 Mag.

Shot a elk or two the last thing you want is a poor shot placement,one reason is the chase is on and on public land another hunter will have no quams about taging it even if it's dead.

If's it close enought first choice neck if not shoulder I like braking bones I shoot nothing anymore except a 338 with 210gr Nosler part. have taken them with a 270 IMHO to light for big bulls 30-06 worked great and use as a back up rifle now, 41 mag pistol took 5 shots in a 5x5 at 40 yards and less got lucky and broke it's spine.

Stay away from that high lung shot I speak from experince damn things will go forever and THEN SOME MORE.

IT'S THE FIRST SHOT THAT COUNTS.

GOOD LUCK WHEN YOU FINELY GO.

I grew up in a ranching family and we all hunted horseback and shot elk with 30-30s, 25-35s, 250 Savages and one uncle shot them with a magnum a 300 Savage! I killed my first 3 or 4 with a 25-35 Win M-94 carbine.

These light guns worked and we never lost one, but I will assure you the elk back then were not the elk I hunt today..They had little fear of a horse and they came out on the sagebrush hillsides morning and late afternoon. We seldom shot one over 100 yards and always broadside.

Today I use a 338 Win. as I have seen many elk wounded with lesser calibers in the dark black timber of Idaho and across those deep wide canyons..Most shots are going away where we hunt and I just like a bigger gun, that way I can take whatever angle shot is offered and know it will put him down..You don't get as many shot opertunities today like we used to get, not nearly...

It cost a lot of money today to go hunt elk. It's pretty smart to have enough gun to handle any situation IMO...It's only "cute" to kill one with a small caliber, it's also a recipe for a ruined hunt..If you are a resident and can hunt every day and pick your shot then use whatever you want to, but know your rifles and your limitations, unfortunatly many know neither.

Lots of good advice has been given. I used a 30-06 on my first 2 elk. They required 2 shots each. I then tried a 300 mag and still had to shoot my elk twice to put it down. They probably would have died after the first shot, but as Ray said, tracking them in the timber is difficult. I used a 338-06 with 250 gr. bullets for the next ten years and had one shot kills. I now use a 338 win mag with 250 gr bullets.

I am suprized that no one has mentioned the best place to shoot an elk. That place is somewhere near a front end loader.

Pretty funny what these elk threads always turn into... "You'll chase them 10 miles" blah blah blah. Sure you'll chase them 10 miles if you make a bad shot other wise they're dead right there. Reguardless if its a coyote, or elephant. A bigger caliber only makes a bigger hole in the guts...

I have no clue how many elk kills I've been a part of, a bunch. 2 years ago it was 8 in 6 days. I've seen them shot with everything from a 22-250 to 375H&H. One in the heart/lungs and its lights out every time. I perfer to hunt with 140+ grain bullets in your favorite caliber... Elk are not hard to kill unless you fugg up the first shot, even then if you have any sort of stalking skills you can usually track them up in a mile or less, but if they figure out you're after them. You're probably not going see them again.

No sence in trying to make yourself feel good about a 'liver' shot, might as well call it what it was it is.... GUT SHOT you fugged up and missed the kill zone by nearly a FOOT if you hit the liver, and there is no way you didn't get guts. The kill zone (heart/lung) is about 16"x18", if you can't put a bullet in that big of a 'hole' spend more time at the range.

Breaking shoulders is just plain stupid IMO... Whats the point in ruining all that meat?

I've yet to see a paunch full of 300 pounds of grass and water, 20-30 pounds is probalby closer. Grass weighs nothing and 300 pounds of water is 40 gallons... an elk needs 1-2 a day.

90% of the elk I/we have killed were shot in the morning... and thier gut was full. haven't seen a bullet bounce off one yet, and I have no desire to gut shoot one so I'm not sure why it matters anyway.

IMO if you're so desperate to take a THS or a hard raking shot, maybe you should rethink why you're hunting elk in the first place. Just because you're packing a rifle doesn't give you the right to throw your ethics out the window. Wait for the shot and make it a good one.

I hunt heavily hunted public land and manage to get in broadside or frontal shots with very little trouble. In the timber in the open, makes no diffrence. Have a little patience and be willing to pass up iffy shots. If you're taking shots at elk running away from you. Maybe you should slow down?

I love the 'public land' crutch too. Elk aren't any easier or harder to kill on public land, or so I've found.

If you have never seen an elk run a ways after being hit in the chest then you haven't seen many hit at all. I also believe if you hit one and it gets out of sight wait a bit before you follow up, especially if you have tracking snow. an hour is not too long. A lot of time the elk will lay down and watch it's backtrail and if you wait a bit he may stiffen up some or go on to the great elk heaven then be easy to collect.

quote:

Originally posted by rickt300:
If you have never seen an elk run a ways after being hit in the chest then you haven't seen many hit at all.

Its been my experience, 9 out of 10 times if they run off they were shot with a 'big' fast magnum and a heavy or 'hard' bullet. One hunting partner has shot 6-7 elk with a 340Roy and 250 partitions, almost everyone got a second shot, and nearly every one ran over 100 yards, one ran nearly 400 yards before going down. Every one was shot in the heart/lung area.

The farthest I've personally had one run was about a 100 yards. Shot with a 7mag and 150gr Winchester power points.

Ray brings up a really good point. Due to human expansion and whatever else you wanna call it, methinks elk today might be a tougher quarry then several decades ago. From talking to older family members, sure seems like we have to hunt a lot harder and deeper in the bush to get them now.

I have seen very well shot elk that didnt realize they were dead. Not sure what the terrain is like where everyone else here hunts, but in my unit, I want it DRT, or at least immobile. I shoot for shoulders. I lose what, 60lbs of meat? I'm not feeding anyone more then myself and my brother, so breaking a shoulder and anchoring that elk to me (its my opinion and mine alone, no need to "school" me on your experience/opinion/theory) is a GREAT idea. I've had to do the 2 day pack outs, and I dont like it.

quote:

have seen very well shot elk that didnt realize they were dead. Not sure what the terrain is like where everyone else here hunts, but in my unit, I want it DRT, or at least immobile. I shoot for shoulders. I lose what, 60lbs of meat? I'm not feeding anyone more then myself and my brother, so breaking a shoulder and anchoring that elk to me (its my opinion and mine alone, no need to "school" me on your experience/opinion/theory) is a GREAT idea. I've had to do the 2 day pack outs, and I dont like it.

MILEHIGHSHOOTER I agree 100%

it's not even close to 60 lbs, on one that really destroys the shoulder maybe 10-12 lbs at most per side my dogs love blood shot meat.

I LIKE TO GUT THEM WHERE I SHOOT THEM.

There aint nothing that goes down faster then a animal with both shoulders broken.

Elk are harder to hunt now? You have to be kidding me. They're like gophers in CO.

Nothing like wasting as much meat as possible. Good for you.

Love how everyones elk hunting units are the most rugged in the west. LMFAO