Quote: Thanks to all who replied. It sounds like the consensus is to use a 165 or 180-grain premium bullet and shoot very carefully. I'll let you know what happens. Thanks again, Okie John.
I would go for a 180 grain bullet and keep to 300 yards or less.
Posts: 9823 | Location: Montana | Registered: 25 June 2001
In a few days, I�m hunting Roosevelt�s elk on a Washington State tree farm with a pre-64 Featherweight M-70 in 308. Shots will be short and the brush is thick. I have no loading setup. What factory load do you guys recommend? Thanks, Okie John.
I've taken 14 one-shot elk with the 180gr Winchester Failsafe, they're hard to find anymore, but I wouldn't hesitate to use the 150gr. If you stick with any of the premium bullets that shoot well in your rifle, and choose boiler room shot placement out to ~200yds, you'll have no problems.
Posts: 1615 | Location: Washington State | Registered: 27 May 2004
Okie John, I've only killed one elk with my .308 Win., but it was with my handloaded 165 grains Nosler Partition. One shot, just behind the right shoulder through a rib and both lungs. Bull was down before I could shoot again. About 150/160 yards.
That being said, my cousin who lives here in s.w. Idaho, has killed 22 bull elk using the exact setup you have, (pre-'64 Win. 70 Fwt. .308 Win., and he has never used anything BUT factory loads. He used to use Rem. 180 grains Core Lokt, but several years ago started using the factory Fed. Premium cartridges with 165 grains Nosler Partition bullets on Mule deer. He continued using them on elk, and has never had any "tracking" problems yet. Almost every elk and deer he's killed has been a one shot kill. He has also killed one Idaho Shiras bull moose with that .308, again using the 180 grains Rem. factory Core Lokt.
Therefore, I recommend factory premium cartridges loaded with the 165 grains Nosler Partition bullet. I KNOW they work, so long as you shoot accurately.
Please post here the results, and pictures of any bullets recovered if possible. Best of luck on your hunting trip.
My wife has taken 5 or 6 elk all with one shot using her trusty 308 with 180 grains Rem. factory Core Lokt ammo. The 308 with 180 bullets kill all out of proportion to its size as long as you limit the range of your shots.
My friend just got back from Colorado from a pack in elk hunt. He killed a small 5x5 with his .308. It took him 5 shots to kill it!!! I told him to take his .300 Mag instead. Guess i was right. You can never have too much gun for elk.
Posts: 931 | Location: Somewhere....... | Registered: 07 October 2002
Quote: My friend just got back from Colorado from a pack in elk hunt. He killed a small 5x5 with his .308. It took him 5 shots to kill it!!! I told him to take his .300 Mag instead. Guess i was right. You can never have too much gun for elk.
Bullet placement is important with any caliber, a magnum caliber will not make up for poor shot placement. It's real easy to blame the caliber when the real blame is on the shooter. A poor shot angle, range, intereferring brush, movement of game and steadiness of hold all play a role in a good kill.
Posts: 1615 | Location: Washington State | Registered: 27 May 2004
To answer your question, I would not hesitate to use the Federal Premium High Energy 165 TBBC on under 200 yard elk. It has worked for me plenty of times on Caribou and Moose.
Federal Premium 165 grain Nosler Partition would be my suggestion. If you were hunting with me I would ask you to not try and take out both shoulders, but to aim low in the crease behind the shoulder and take out both lungs and the heart. I have had hunters try and take out the shoulders, low and hit the humerus. Broken shoulder, fair blood trail, but no penetration into the chest. Game over. Long looking, and wishing for another chance. Seen that movie, lived that nightmare.
If you limit your range to under 200 yds, or in close quarters like you're describing you should be ok. If you try and cheat and reach out if you have the chance, you're doing a disservice to the animal and yourself.
Posts: 51 | Location: Utah | Registered: 29 September 2004
Hi If shots are going to be fairly close, honestly any 180gr bullet will work just fine, providing you put the bullet in the right spot. Just what has already been said, bullet placement is the most important thing. The .308 is perfectly capable of taking elk at close range using 180gr loads, so go have a good hunt and good luck.
Posts: 277 | Location: Grants Pass, OR | Registered: 10 October 2004
Quote: In a few days, I�m hunting Roosevelt�s elk on a Washington State tree farm with a pre-64 Featherweight M-70 in 308. Shots will be short and the brush is thick. I have no loading setup. What factory load do you guys recommend? Thanks, Okie John.
Normally I would suggest a 165 for the .308 but since you claim shots will be short and the brush is thick, then I recommend the 180 TBBC, or Partition. IMHO, you'll be a bit better off with the bigger bullet at closer ranges. Another, more pricey choice would be the 180 Swift A Frame.
Placement and type of bullet says it all. I have shot 7 elk with my 264 win mag. The first with the 264 was my first elk and I shot him four times before he fell down. The next six all fell to one shot. Placement was lacking on that first elk that had a little adrenaline floowing.
I also made the mistake of shooting an elk with ballistic tips. I have ony made that mistake once and went back to the partitions which I should never have strayed from.
Bullet placement is important with any caliber, a magnum caliber will not make up for poor shot placement. It's real easy to blame the caliber when the real blame is on the shooter. A poor shot angle, range, intereferring brush, movement of game and steadiness of hold all play a role in a good kill.
I disagree with that. A 250 Gr Partition from a .338 Win will traverse an elk from end to end. I don't care what you shoot from a .308, I just don't think that would happen!! Why do you suppose that in Africa, large bullets and calibers are called for?? If smaller calibers worked as well on large animals, it wouldn't be an issue, would it?? I'm not saying that you can't kill elk with .270s or .308s, sure you can with a perfect shot. However, when you're on a once in a lifetime hunt, you can't always depend on that "perfect shot". The distance may also be 350-400 yards. In either scenario, I'll take bigger every time to drive a bullet into the vitals from a "less than perfect" shot angle or a long distance. Both bull elk I've killed with my .338 have dropped on the spot, no tracking was needed!!
Posts: 931 | Location: Somewhere....... | Registered: 07 October 2002
You can disagree all you want, but it still doesn't change the fact that an improperly placed bullet from any magnum you choose will not make a clean kill. Too many "hunters" think they can make up for poor shooting skills with more gun....ain't so. Another case of magnumitis.
Posts: 1615 | Location: Washington State | Registered: 27 May 2004
I don't see 250 partitions travesing elk from end to end. I have seen several shot at ranges from 40 yards to 400 yards and rarely is there an exit. Bullet retrieval is routine in elk.
Posts: 51 | Location: Utah | Registered: 29 September 2004
Given the choice, would you all rather shoot an elk at 330 yards with a .243 using a 100 grain Sierra bullet hitting it broadside right behind the shoulder, OR
Use a 300 Remington Ultra Mag with a 220 Partition broadside, yet just barely clipping anterior of the diaphragm?
I'm not trying to Piss anyone off, I'm just curious. I've always said shot placement is key, but I've put good bullets right where they belong from a 270 on big deer and watched them run and run and run, later to find a perfectly mushroomed bullet through one lung and lodged in the wall of the heart. Just an observation.
Take away rifles and bullets and put a bow and arrow in your hand.
Here, shot placement is, IMO, even more critical or is at least arguable. I have killed more deer with archery equip. than with rifles. I have watched a BIG Iowa buck run only 30 yards after shooting him broadside with a 2 and 3/4" Vortex mechanical broadhead that only hit ONE lung.
I have also had a beautiful quartering away shot at a very BIG Ohio buck with a 100 grain 4 bladed Muzzy fixed head pass through the deer. This guy made it all of 18 yards, fell sideways, and burped up blood, then died.
But one of my best shots of all time, a perfect broadside shot on a good 8 pt buck at 11 yards from the GROUND, went over 300 yards. He kept falling, and getting up, over and over again. This deer just didn't want to die and I put a brand new 3 bladed Muzzy 100 grain head through both lungs and sliced the top of his heart. The blood trail was adequate but not the best. I just shook my head in disbelief when I finally found him.
Thanks to all who replied. It sounds like the consensus is to use a 165 or 180-grain premium bullet and shoot very carefully. I'll let you know what happens. Thanks again, Okie John.
Off the subject, but I din't understand what you said. At what speed did you have a 270 bullet impact, that had a perfect mushroom and only penetrate to the heart? Where was the entry? capt david
Posts: 655 | Location: South Texas | Registered: 11 January 2004
Quote: Off the subject, but I din't understand what you said. At what speed did you have a 270 bullet impact, that had a perfect mushroom and only penetrate to the heart? Where was the entry? capt david
Sorry, I cannot tell you what the velocity was. That was many years ago when I had been reloading for about a year or so. I did not have a chrony. Back then, I just worked up loads and whatever shot good was what I took, much like hunters that buy factory ammo, sight it in, and go hunting.
However, the hit was about 5 inches behind the shoulder and the buck was ever so slightly quartering away. Placement was, in my opinion, perfect. The shot was about 180 yards and the bullet was a Sierra 150 Gameking over IMR4350.
Confusing isn't it?? I've had a handful of surprises since I've been hunting...and that is one of them.
I have shot all of my elk with a .338, but I have shot 4 red stag with a .308 and 180 gr bullets - 180 Nosler BTs no less! Maybe they all died laughing...but they died.
Some guys wouldn't think twice about shooting an elk with a .30-06, but wouldn't think of it with a .308. Well, the difference in trajectory, when sighted in at 200 yards, is about an inch. Big deal.
Posts: 7583 | Location: Arizona and off grid in CO | Registered: 28 July 2004
Discussions concerning the use of a "cross over" cartridge like the .308 on elk creates an amazingly consistent and predictable series of commentary.
Regarding the question asked by the author, for the .308 going heavy for caliber with premium bullets is always a good place to start (like 180 gr Partitions). Frequently omitted by the "cross over" cartridge advocates are the "restrictions" that come attached to ethically using such cartridges on elk. The .308 will do it but........
That said, I personally like using "bigger tools for bigger jobs" and for me on elk that means 338WinMag and up. Our camp instituted a minimum of 30-06 power/penetration rule five years ago (mainly for the purposes of our visiting "guests") and things have went LOTS better since then.
Again, thanks to all for the replies. This place is a great reality check.
ELKampMaster, I like your minimum, but I've shot this 308 all year and I think I know my limits with it. My 35 Whelen is new and I'm not as confident in it yet -- maybe after another year and another 4-500 rounds. I guess I'd rather use a rifle I understand and plan to pass up some shots than carry an unfamiliar one and be in the dark. Hardly the ideal situation, but there it is.
