The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting American Big Game Hunting 7x57 vs. 7mm Rem MagGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| 7x57 vs. 7mm Rem Mag | Login/Join |
| one of us |
I have a question for the people here. Why is it that you always here how great the 7x57 is and how effective it is on game, then you hear the same people (usually gunwriters) trash the 7mm Rem Mag. What is inherently wrong with the same bullet going 500-700 fps faster? Of course you could always get the 7mm ultra mag or STW and go 5% faster for 40% more powder... Joel Slate | ||
|
| Moderator |
A lot of people suffer from "romantic nostalgic" disorder.  | |||
|
| one of us |
A lot of people suffer from technologic disorder , which is high tech with no logic. If I were bolder, with a numb shoulder, then a magnum Id shoot, and a big one to boot. To make up for my low caliber. More seriously, I shoot the 7X65R, taking advantage of great bullet size, and just enough more speed to be near that 3000/3000 where pounds and feet meet. This is as good as it gets for me, though others all have their own ideas and balance point. | |||
|
| <MIKE THE BEAR> |
I have and use a 7X57, a .280 Rem. and a 7MM Rem Mag. Love them all and they always do the job. Usage is a function of distances that I expect to shoot or how I feel that day. They get it done and none of them have enough recoil to worry about. ------------------ [This message has been edited by MIKE THE BEAR (edited 08-31-2001).] | ||
|
one of us |
What is so good about speed? | |||
|
| <AKI> |
Deerdogs. It gets the bullet out of the barrel! AKI | ||
|
| one of us |
Speed flattens trajectory, reduces wind drift and reduces time of flight. This results in lessening errors of range estimation, distraction caused by wind and the consequences of an animal moving unexpectedly as the shot breaks. More speed will simply put the bullet closer to the spot you picked every time. ------------------ | |||
|
| one of us |
If we want to talk velocity, one of the member of this forum is using Gerard's GS Custom bullets in 130 gr and has been shooting around 1/2" groups at velocities of 3800fps to 4000fps in his 7mm STW. JR what was that 5% increase in velocity and 40% more powder? Good Hunting ------------------ [This message has been edited by Santala (edited 08-31-2001).] | |||
|
| one of us |
I must be one of those nostalgic fellows. I suppose it depends what ranges you are going to hunt at For woodland and bushveldt I�d suggest that a heavy for calibre 175 grain bullet in the 7x57 will comfortably take out most game south of 700 lbs when placed in the engine room. If you are going to shoot in excess of 200 yards then the flatter trajectory may be worth having. Personally I�d rather hunt closer than take long shots. I�d sooner have enough gun than more than enough gun with more noise/ blast/ longer action etc. 6.5x55, 7x57, 30 06, 8x57 have a few things in common they are slow, hard hitting, and have stood the test of time � ask your self why. Regards | |||
|
| <RAO> |
Apart from historic charm in 7x57 Mauser, there is also a shootibility of the cartridge.7x57 can do much more,then you will need in actual shooting. Our magnum pal will be jerkey an more pushey, with actual advantage past average shooting distances.I think we all want to shoot our game at longer ranges,but in reality we do not need super magnums for deer out to 200 yards. | ||
|
| one of us |
Well the 7x57 made it's reputation on a 173-175 gr. bullet in the 2200-2300 FPS range because it penetrated deeply of large animals. I hate to bring up Bell, but he did do it with his 7x57 on elephants using solids. One gun writer felt that trying to soup up the 7x57 actually made it more inefficient stating that it was the low velocity that gave it it's power to penetrate. Kind of makes sense to me, although I'd be happier with a velocity close to 2500 FPS. While I can shoot much farther than 200 yards and hit what I am shooting at, I personally prefer to get much closer. For me, the thrill is to see how close I can get. I know that at times, long shots are all that are available, and I will take one if I have to. Kind of what matthew Quigley said to Marston at the end of the movie, if I may paraphrase. I said I didn't like long shots. I didn't say I couldn't make one. Paul B. | |||
|
| one of us |
The 7x57 is one of my pet calibers (four of them currently in the family and building one more). Up to the 1993 season I only used 170 to 175 grain jacketed bullets. In 1994 I went to 150 grain monometal bullets. Results improved and since 1996 I have used nothing but 130 grain monometal bullets at 2950 fps. These bullets are similar in length to jacketed 160 grain bullets and I have never enjoyed the caliber more than since having the extra speed. It has retained all the shootability and all round capability it has always had, but my confidence on shots at 300 to 350 is much higher. My average shooting distance has not changed much, if at all, but occasionally you have to bring down an animal at longer ranges when new hunters mess up (or when you mess up) and the extra reach is nice to have. I also have a 7mm Rem Mag but will rechamber it to a bigger case later as I do not use it much and feel the need for more speed.  ------------------ | |||
|
| <allen day> |
Nostalgia doesn't mean anything to me. For my own purposes, I'd take the 7mm Remington Magnum over the 7X57 any day of the week. It's no more difficult to shoot than a .30-06, and it packs more punch than the 7X57 at all distances. It shoots flatter and it's more versatile, no matter how you slice it. However, for someone who wants or requires a light-recoiling rifle that's also light to carry around, I think the 7mm Mauser would be an excellent choice........ but in that case, I'd rather have a .270 Winchester! AD | ||
|
one of us |
I've never been a 7mm fan, no matter what case it is seated in, but if I had to use one for hunting everything it can handle properly, I would take the 280 Rem version. It will do anything the 7mm Mags will do,with less powder,recoil, and noise, and it tops the 7x57 considerably. It has enough speed to set up hydrostatic shock on small things like whitetail, and with heavy bullets penetrate deeply on the big stuff, with out tareing up the bullets of any weight. Because of it's heavier bullets on the top end, it is more useful than the 270 Win, which is also on the 30-06 case, that everybody seems to think is magic, and the 280 will shoot just as flat, and as fast as it needs to go, with same weight bullets, but has a better frontal area, and bullet selection. I have all three 7mms, and 270s as well, but I seldom use any of them. If I had to take one of these for everything I would use this size rifle for, it would be the 280 Rem (actually a ligitamized 7mm-06 wildcat). It is the same thing as the 270, but with a better selection of bullets! I see no need for the 7mm Rem mag, or, in fact, any of the 7mm mags, I would jump from the 280 to a 300 mag, instead of hopping up the 7mm. Personal opinion only! ------------------ | |||
|
| one of us |
jrslate, By the guidelines you have set forth, I see no need for any caliber but the 50 caliber MG.... I'm sure the big 50 would do anything any available caliber will do...Then again will the 50 do anything the 7x57 can't do, and that is kill game animals sufficiently dead???? I don't know the answer to your question but I sure do admire the 7x57, and have little regard for the big 7's as I prefer the big 30's over them...It comes down to a matter of choices......you ain't wrong but you sure ain't right either.... ------------------ | |||
|
| <duckster> |
If I were going to go to a magnum case, it would be one in .308 caliber. That being the case, my choice would also be the .280 Remington for a 7mm cartridge. | ||
|
| <Ol' Sarge> |
My favorite splits the difference - .280 Remington - and I have a big 7. ------------------ | ||
|
| one of us |
I trade my old 7mmRM and got a 7-08 instead. I could not see any advantage in the bigger case and higher recoil. I use my 7-08 for anything from crows to moose. So far I have shot two moose with it(50m and 200m). While I have the 7mmRM (5 moose 30-100m)I got two bullets failure with Winchester 175grX bullet! So the only good thing about the 7mmRM is that it made me start reloading to get the premium bullet that the speed demanded/ PerN | |||
|
| one of us |
Well, this question did what it was supposed to do....get a few guys around the campfire debating things that never have a final answer. I know for a fact that there is nothing wrong with the 7x57. These old rounds have killed much game over the years. Lots of it, far too big for what today's gunwriters say it is good for. After all, I am a huge fan of the .303 British, which says something right there. But I also do like my 7mm RM. Joel Slate | |||
|
| one of us |
Well, you really can't get down on the 7 Mag to much as it will become a 7x57 at about 100 yds... ------------------ | |||
|
| one of us |
I have a 7mm-08, a .284 Win, and a 7MM Rem Mag. I enjoy them all. Like a previous writer said, It just depends on the mood I'm in today. | |||
|
| one of us |
Actually , the big 7 beomes about like a 7x57 at the muzzle at more like 200 yards , and that's being a mite generous to the 7x57 . [This message has been edited by sdgunslinger (edited 09-09-2001).] | |||
|
| one of us |
One of the most commonly overlooked thing when reloading for any rifle is whether or not the bullet is designed to be used at the desired velocities. 7mm bullets come in a variety of constructions. Before you either buy or reload for any cal, 7x57 or 7mm Mag, are you using the correct bullet? Does it fit the game and the velocities you'll be pushing it to? I'd slam either choice if the cartridge construction wasn't correctly determined. Safe Shooting! | |||
|
| one of us |
quote: Hang on there sdgunslinger� You are going to have to quantify that remark... I just ran a couple of hypothetical loads based on data from the VV and Norma websites. Here are the results based on a 170 gr bullet. 7mm Rem Mag. MV = 2780 (roughly) The velocity of the 7 Rem Mag becomes 2520 at 102 yards according to my calculations. Either way, I would happily own both, but the 7x57 would be used much more that the 7 Rem Mag as I rarely shoot at animal in the 250 plus range where the Magnum has the advantage. In fact, I cannot remember ever shooting anything above 220 metres. To my way of thinking that is far enough to GUARENTEE a one shot kill. There is a good chance I�ll hit something up to 400 metres but I have seen enough wounded animals to keep the range down. Besides which I enjoy getting as close to the animal as possible. That to me is the difference between hunting and shooting. I realise that there will be places on this planet where it is impossible to get closer than 200 metres, in which case I would re-examine my own code of practice and reach for the 7mm Rem Mag. Regards | |||
|
| one of us |
SDgunslinger, Actually I can duplicate any 7 Mag factory load and most handloads in my 7x57 with its long throat and and extra powder capacity.... My standard load is a cupfull of H414 and a 160 Nosler at 2916 FPS and a 175 gr. Nosler at 2796 FPS.All loads chronographed on 5 or 10 shot averages..Been using these loads for nearly 40 years in my Brno M-22F Manlicher. ------------------ | |||
|
| one of us |
Boys , you got to compare apples to apples . Sure, you can long throat any catridge and likely soup it over factory performance . I was basing my statement on 160 gr spitzers at 2700 amd 3100 fps respectively , performance I think is typical and reasonable from most rifles . And a good many shooters report 3000 fps with their 7 mags and 175 gr bullets . I have an old Lyman book where they chronoed many of the factory loads of the day in 24 inch barrels . The original Core-Locks as loaded by Remington would get right at 3000 with the 175 s and 3100 with 150 s, this just goes to show you the true potential of the cartidge before the lawyer and lawsuit days . Ray , how long is the barrel on that 7x57 ? 26 or 27 inches like the rest of your rifles ? Actually , the original factory throats of the 7mm Rem were on the short side and long bullets would have to be seated down in the case. Bob Hagel did experiments with long throating those years ago , and reported he was able to use another 4 gr 4831 and pick up near 150 fps , pushing 160 s to near 3200 and 175 s an easy 3000 . He also reported that penetration of the big 7 with 175 gr Noslers was equal to anything shot out of .300 s or the .338 . I like the old 7x57 too , one was my first high power rilfe , but it ain't never gonna come close to the trajecory or striking energy of a big 7 , if everything is equal . Ray , you have said many times a guy should stick to an easily available factory cartridge , sooner or later you are going to come up short on ammo . As a fellow believer in Mr. Murphy , I tend to agree . On that basis alone , the 7x57 loses to the 7mm Rem , as every hardware store or Wally world has 7mm Rem. ammo , but 7x57 is kinda scarce . | |||
|
| one of us |
quote: SD, I can't argue with your logic. I just think it is a shame that a lot of young shooters poo-poo the older calibres in favour of the same thing only faster. It encourages a lot of people, who may be only shoot only a couple of deer a year, into taking long shots and taking a couple of bullets to make the kill. I think it takes the skill/ art/ call it what you will out of big game hunting. Good shooting and best regards | |||
|
| Powered by Social Strata |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
|
Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia
| View $GS_USERNAME's Public Profile |
| Add $GS_USERNAME to my Buddies |
| Add $GS_USERNAME to my Ignore List |
| Invite $GS_USERNAME to a Private Topic |
| View Recent Posts by $GS_USERNAME |
| Notify me of New Posts by $GS_USERNAME |