The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting American Big Game Hunting .45acp or 9mm sucks less for deer?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| .45acp or 9mm sucks less for deer? | Login/Join |
| One of Us |
I'm looking at changing my daily carry gun. And although it is a self defense gun it is more likely to be used to put down a wounded deer than anything else. What is most probable is I will see a deer at 30 or 40 yards and I will have 1 less than perfect shot to try to put down before it makes a mad dash through the brush. Are there any educated opinions as to which round would be better at anchoring a deer? It might not matter, I don't know. Trying to kill an escaping deer is not equal to trying to stop an attacking human. Thanks. Sand Creek November 29 1864 | ||
|
One of Us |
Neither is ideal but stay away from hollow points and shoot either full metal or hard cast. ________________________________________________ Maker of The Frankenstud Sling Keeper Proudly made in the USA Acepting all forms of payment | |||
|
| One of Us |
IF , you go w/ a 9 and shoot fmj's, at 30-40 yds, unless you brain the deer--you will take on the title ' the crippler' . | |||
|
One of Us |
I once tried to deliver the coup de grâce to a deer with a .45 ACP 1911. I thought a single shot of talon type ammo at a few yards would do the trick. Boy was I wrong. The deer was lying down, upright, head high but faltering. I shot into the heart-lung area but it had almost no effect. I got closer, knelt, and put a second shot right where I knew the heart was located. That took care of things but it wasn't the instant kill I expected. An inspection of the wounds later revealed the bullets had broken into tiny fragments. Ted probably has the right answer. A hard lead bullet or millitary ball ammo would have been better. I have often thought the perfect thing for such occasions would be a brain shot from a .22LR pistol. But shooting a deer with .22LR is against the law, even if it's just for a humane finish to a killing shot from a centerfire rifle. . | |||
|
One of Us |
i'm not sure which one, i guess i would lean towards the larger hole of the .45. check out buffalo bore ammo and get some of their hard cast ammo (they also have barnes solid copper ammo) | |||
|
| One of Us |
The problems with the 9mm Luger and 45 Auto Colt Pistol and just about all of the rimless autoloading handguns is penetration. Hard cast and full metal will give you that but like I said.... Neither the 9 nor the 45 are what I would consider a handgun for dispatching 125/200 pound animals ________________________________________________ Maker of The Frankenstud Sling Keeper Proudly made in the USA Acepting all forms of payment | |||
|
one of us |
I'd also recomend a solid type pistol bullet. Here's the jacket of a Winchester Black Talon from a .40 S&W taken out of a Bushbuck's heart from point blank range, (less than foot). The Bushbuck got up and ran an additional 30 feet after the shot.  Frank "I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money." - Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953 NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite | |||
|
| One of Us |
9mm with the Buffalo Bore 147gr Outdoorsman load. Smaller bullet weight than any .45 load, but better sectional density for penetration. The shot you anticipate will need penetration to be successful in my opinion. I don't think the .45 will do that as well as the 9mm. Jeremy | |||
|
one of us |
Shot one hog at 10 yards or so with 147 grain Winchester Ranger out of a 9mm and it got near complete penetration through the chest (lodged under hide on far side) and killed pretty quickly. I'd use it again in a pinch. I've killed a few hogs with a .45 to the head. The best bullet seemed to be a 200 grain JHP, but those were all at very close "finish him off" ranges. I don't think I'd set out to use either for hogs or deer. Have you considered a 10mm? _____________________ A successful man is one who earns more money than his wife can spend. | |||
|
One of Us |
I killed my first black bear with a single, behind the shoulder shot with a hard cast 220 grain lead bullet from my 1911 .45 acp. It was a DIY spot and stalk hunt. The shot was about 15 yards, and the bear didn't run more than 20 to 30 yards after being hit. I carried that 1911 for many years as a back-up/finishing gun on deer and elk hunts, but the only other things that I shot with it were grouse. I still carry it sometimes when hiking in the back country. I just recently bought a CC gun in 9mm Lugar. The 9mm is lighter and easier to carry, but for stopping power, I'd still pick a .45 acp. NRA Endowment Life Member | |||
|
| One of Us |
20-30 yards minus 15 yards = 5-15 yards Good thing he ran the other way or he'd have gotten you! . | |||
|
One of Us |
Had decent luck shooting hogs with both 45acp and 9mm...but had fmj ammo in both. Never had one run off and they were less than or around 30yards each time. "Let me start off with two words: Made in America" | |||
|
One of Us |
If you happen to be hunting in a required or recommended "lead free environment" the Cutting Edge HGS 45 200gr FN Copper Solid Bullet would be my selection for the 45 ACP. It is listed on the California approved lead free bullet CEB listing (page 4 of 5 pages): https://nrm.dfg.ca.gov/FileHan...umentID=82809&inline Jim  "Life's hard; it's harder if you're stupid" John Wayne | |||
|
| One of Us |
I would prefer the 10mm Auto over either 9mm or 45acp. Much more effective than either of the other two. velocity is like a new car, always losing value. BC is like diamonds, holding value forever. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Or 460 Roland... Jim "Life's hard; it's harder if you're stupid" John Wayne | |||
|
| One of Us |
I bought this bullet mold for my Ruger Blackhawk 45acp/45Colt convertible and Vaquero 45acp. I decided to try it out in both of my 1911s and it feeds and functions in my 1911s. Others on Cast Boolits have used it to good effect on Deer and other game. Here in NV we have laws against using anything smaller than 44mag length cartridges. So I would be using my 45 Colt and in that case the bare minimum bullet weight I use in my Colt is 255gr bullets but like a 300gr or larger. | |||
|
One of Us |
I'd recommend neither and bring a 30/30 lever gun.... | |||
|
| One of Us |
Best damn advice so far !!!! The 30/30 is as compact or more compact as any rifle and in most peoples hands.... I've had one in my truck for many years and 99.9% of my passengers would never know it Far more accurate than a handgun ________________________________________________ Maker of The Frankenstud Sling Keeper Proudly made in the USA Acepting all forms of payment | |||
|
One of Us |
Please clarify, are you asking about finishing off a wounded deer, or using it to kill as deer? Your question and the scenario seem somewhat at odds with each other. Is the 45or 9mm your primary hunting arm or as you stated in the OP are you concerned about which would be better in finishing off a wounded animal? Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
|
| One of Us |
That's one of the beauties of a 1911...an almost instant second shot, if you need it. NRA Endowment Life Member | |||
|
| One of Us |
"What is most probable is I will see a deer at 30 or 40 yards and I will have 1 less than perfect shot to try to put down before it makes a mad dash through the brush" Very few people are capable of making this shot with any pistol. That is why I suggested a rifle. If everyone were honest with themselves this is a tall order for anyone with a pistol. | |||
|
| one of us |
Well, of the 2 choices, I'd carry whichever you can shoot best, loaded with personal defense ammo. That job comes FAR ABOVE dispatching a wounded deer IMO. Maybe we've just been lucky but in the last 20 years on my place, I've actually seen where I could have shot him, one wounded buck, running at about 250 yds. and I didn't know he was shot until later. Obviously, a pistol of either caliber would have done no good. Go for the worst case, which is self defense, and use what you load for that if you have to try to dispatch a deer. xxxxxxxxxx When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere. NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR. I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Wounded or sick deer. I had one recently with some kind of leg disease. I had to stop what I was doing and head back to the house to get a better gun. It was just luck that I was able to find the deer again and put it down. I also get wounded deer here from time to time when I'm cleaning up trash or heading down the driveway or whatever. The wounded and sick deer I come across are usually very badly hurt but still capable of running, and they are scared. We had one a while back with a lower jaw that had been blown off. Sand Creek November 29 1864 | |||
|
| One of Us |
I think you would be surprised how well people shoot. When I was practicing more I could hit a bowling pin at 40 yards at least 9 out of 10 times. Most of the people who come to take classes at my range make hits on people targets at 35 yards every time. I was invited down one time when a guy showed up to try out his his new holo site on his glock. With careful shots he hit the steel at 100 yards every time. I tried but I was not nearly as good as him, I was out of practice at the time. When I was well practiced I killed 2 different foxes with head shots at about 35 yards. I'm not nearly that good now. But I'm sure I can make a lung shot on a deer. I would want my bullet to have enough power to do what I need it to do. Sand Creek November 29 1864 | |||
|
| One of Us |
I am still having trouble understanding what your problem is. How many wounded/crippled deer are you dealing with? When guiding deer and hog hunters I normally carry an 1894 Marlin Lever Action in .44 Rem Mag and out to 50/75 yards if you can accurately place your shots it will do the job. If you are talking about 20 yards or less, if you can accurately place your shots, either caliber will get the job done or should. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
|
| One of Us |
I've only 'shot' one deer with a pistol. Used a 9 shot .22LR. I was just a young idiot at the time cutting firewood when a medium sized muley buck walked by watching me at not over 50 feet. I pointed my arm, then the ax, no panic. So I pulled the 6" H&R 922 out and pointed it. Still nothing, so I fired all 9 shots as fast as possible and hit it 7 times, 5 in the lung chest area. He made less than 30 yds. Ok, that's nonsense and damned illegal! NO excuses other than being a dumb assed kid. I've used that and another .22 for a number of finish up shots on both deer and a few elk up close to the brain. Effective as can be. For years I carried a Blackhawk in .30 carbine. Too light to shoot game with but, for a finish up shot, mighty impressive. I pulverized a cow elks head with it at 10 feet face on. 110gr SP at 1215fps. After having three elk run past me at under 40 yds when I was out of reach of my rifle in season while putting chains on the truck in a foot of snow. I've changed to 330gr Hammerhead hard cast in a 7 1/2" Blackhawk .45 Colt @ 1320fps. I've practiced with it a lot at 100yds and before I got sick in '12, could keep 'em all in about 18" circle one handed. Less with a rest. For a finish up shot, use solids/fmj's and most anything will do IF up close. IF I had a number of sick and wounded deer to finish off as you're saying I'd sure pack a decent sized revolver and put the semi play toys away. My opinion with 50yrs of experiences with deer, elk, beef, & domestic hog butchering. I shot a beef with the .30 carbine at 15 feet once when Dad made a horn cavity hit with a .22 rifle. That stopped his heart so that it didn't bleed over half gallon when the throat was cut to the spine. Butcher found the bullet embedded in the back half of the Atlas joint, 11" penetration. Another time Dad was running "those damned pistols down, in particular this one". We had a barrel full of rocks at 300yds for a corner fence "deadman". I fired at it 12 shots, first was way short, 2nd right in front, the other ten penetrated the near side into the rocks. He never mouthed off about my shooting or pistols again. Ok, have at it! George "Gun Control is NOT about Guns' "It's about Control!!" Join the NRA today!" LM: NRA, DAV, George L. Dwight | |||
|
| one of us |
I have shot a lot of wounded deer with 9mm 40's 357s and 22rf. I talked to others who have shot a lot more wounded dead. We are talking hundreds if not thousands of deer among all those officers I had contact with. They were also a great source to test new bullets and hand loads on. As LEOs shooting wounded deer is a weekly happening in some areas many times a week. The dam things just can't be stopped from running out in front of vehicles and getting hit. With a properly placed bullet they well all kill a wounded deer. Personally I and a lot of other officers gave up using their side arms. And reach for the 12ga and a load of OO buck. much more efficient and a lot less chance of missing when the dam things are flopping in the ditch. If you want them DRT a head shot to the brain is the only way to go. But that can be a problem with them flopping. I use to carry a small 22rf for dispatching deer then after being fully embarrass by missing one flopping a couple times. I started using the 12ga, I also killed a lot by cutting their throats in areas where shooting could be a real hazard. | |||
|
One of Us |
I use either a 10mm or .40 in longslide Glocks. In the .40, I use the extreme penetrator https://www.underwoodammo.com/...n-xtreme-penetrator/ In the 10mm, I use 200 grain Nosler HP. https://www.underwoodammo.com/...cketed-hollow-point/ I have shot both this season in either a followup or actual hunting situation, and both performed for me. IMHO, Central nervous shot is a much more effective shot with the pistol to anchor a deer. With good heart/lung hits, you still have to wait for the oxygenated blood to leave the brain. That can cost you. | |||
|
| One of Us |
I understand your position frank and I too have a range at my house and shoot far more than most folks are able to but banging steel and trying to get a "finisher" on a flailing deer at 35 yards is still beyond 90 % of the hunting populations ability with a handgun I fear. I would venture to say it is beyond many peoples abilities with a rifle.... No disrespect intended but I think the group here (Accurate Reloading forum)probably are more serious about their sport and have better skills than the average hunter so I'm sure you are capable. With that said if confidence is high that you can place that shot then a high shocking expanding bullet in the lungs from the higher velocity round would be the way to go. If any doubt that a less than perfect shot can be expected then the larger caliber with deep penetrating bullets would be the best choice. | |||
|
One of Us |
not to go the route of telling you what chicken place you should visit when you ask about a steak dinner but I would pick the 5.7×28mm ___________________________________________________________________________________ Give me the simple life; an AK-47, a good guard dog and a nymphomaniac who owns a liquor store. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Why not just use the rifle the critter was originally shot with?????? I have been in a few situations dealing with wounded animals, but I have noticed several times that unless they are pressed, wounded game will lay down or stop and stand long enough for a shot from a rifle. When I am guiding someone and they ask me where they should place their shot, my advice is dead center of the shoulders and try to break one or both of them. A wounded animal can drag its rear end a long way, but from my experience they have a real hard time pushing their front end very far. One comment that has surfaced and needs a little clarification, in Texas you cannot legally finish a wounded deer off with a .22LR. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Valid points. And some clarification on my side is probably in order. The most important thing is that wounding animals or allowing them to suffer when I can do something about it bothers me far more than it does that average person. It's not something can or want to change. I do a lot of killing and I don't try to force my own standards or views on others. But I can't tolerate leaving an animal suffereing. My 100 acres is surrounded on 3 sides by land that is hunted. The other side is a highway. Animals with arrows or bullet holes, or busted up from the highway is not that unusual. Much of my land is dense brush as a result of logging a few years back, a creek on one side, and a 10 acre marsh. I wouldn't carry a long gun with me when I'm in the marsh or running a chainsaw in heavy brush, and I switch vehicles a lot depending on the job. I always have a concealed handgun and a small fixed blade belt knife, always.
Sand Creek November 29 1864 | |||
|
| One of Us |
All thing considered I'm probably going to go with a midsize in 9mm with a heavy bullet or split the difference and go with a .40 to pick up a little bullet weight. I just don't think I can justify a larger gun and less ammo with the .45acp. I hate making these decisions. I want to make the decision and be done with it so I can spend my time on more productive things. Sand Creek November 29 1864 | |||
|
One of Us |
I would choose the one you shoot best and then focus on the ammo that penetrates well. This stuff from buffalo bore might work well. https://www.buffalobore.com/in...product_detail&p=224 Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Thank You, that clarifies things a lot and I can see why you would want to pick something that would dop the job without carrying a long gun. Sounds like the choice you listed in your last response should work well in your situation.  Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
|
| One of Us |
I would still suggest a 10mm Colt 1911 or a 10mm Glock. I have a 10mm Glock and it was inexpensive, an excellent shooter, power equals some 41 mag. loads and it has a large magazine capacity. IIRC I think that it is a model 20, but there are two models in 10mm. The 10mm Glocks are becoming very popular in Alaska. I'm just suggesting that you should consider the 10mm. I have seen some miserable failures with 9 & 45 in the game fields. IMHO, neither are satisfactory. PS. Recoil is not bad at all in my pistol. velocity is like a new car, always losing value. BC is like diamonds, holding value forever. | |||
|
One of Us |
Killed a couple of problem black bears that had been treed by hounds with a 45 ACP with hardball many years ago. Not an issue. The dogs provide a lot of protection, it's a different story if you're alone and the bear's on the ground. These days, I'd be using my 45 Super shooting Buffalo Bore 255g hardcast at 1075 fps for self dense with bears. Not sure why I would shoot deer with a pistol. A 243 or a 30-30 is a lot more powerful and easier to shoot accurately. Regards, Chuck "There's a saying in prize fighting, everyone's got a plan until they get hit" Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness" | |||
|
| one of us |
Because one can and because it might be what one has at hand when one has the chance to kill a deer. | |||
|
| Powered by Social Strata |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
|
The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting American Big Game Hunting .45acp or 9mm sucks less for deer?
Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia