I'm considering putting together a Black Bear rifle for hunting over bait and wanted some input. First of all I'd rather have a Winchester model 70 or even a Remington Classic in 35 Whelen but your not going to get that for $319 and I want to keep this project CHEAP. You see I've learned that I can build nice rifles or I can go on hunts. So this is not going to be a keep sake or a gun safe queen, this is going to be a "working" rifle. If it has a few spots of rust, who cares. If it gets scratched, so what. This is going to be primarily a Bear gun which I hope to use once a year on a week long hunt.

With this in mind here's what I'm looking at putting together. A Howa 1500 Lightening in 338.win and yes I feel the .338 is a bit much for Black Bear, like I said I'd rather have a .35 Whelen. But I do want the frontal area and bullet weight so I plan to down load a 250gr bullet to a muzzle velocity of 2500+/-, which will produce 2900+/- foot pounds of energy at 100yds. This sounds like heap big Bear medicine to me.

Now for a scope. I've tried about all of them and always come back to Leupold, so its got to be a Leupold. I'm hoping to find a used 1.5-5 or 2-7 for around $125 and since most Bears are taken at or near dark I want one with the heavy duplex. So lets see $319 of the rifle + $125 for the scope + $40 rings and bases = $484+/-, I could live with that.

So what do you think? Any suggestions? What would be your perfect Bear gun? Would you even consider a Howa, little alone as a Bear gun? Know any place where I can find one? I checked with Academy Sports today they list the Howa for $319, but the .338win is out of stock.

[ 07-16-2002, 05:24: Message edited by: mark65x55 ]

The rifle itself sounds good to me, since you can "download" it to .35 Whelen or .338-06 levels. In fact going up you can easily get somewhere around 2,700 with a 250-grain bullet, but 2,500 fps for close range shots sounds good.

Other than that, if you already have an old .30-06 rifle, you can always turn it into a .338-06 or .35 Whelen. Pac-Nor and others can sell you and install one of their barrels for under $300.00. The low-power Leupold scope is another great idea. You should be able to buy a second-hand Leupold, and still have the lifetime warranty free.

Sounds fine, except for the load selection.

The majority of black bears are more like 200 lbs than the 600 lb monsters you hear about. If you're hunting the upland forests and not a coastal area or farmland, then the bear you are after is more the size of a big whitetail than a grizzly.

A 250 grain .338 bullet is made to hold together at the velocity of a .340 Weatherby, possibly up to near 3000 fps, so it will be a sluggish expander at 2500 fps, especially on a 200 lb bear. I would suggest that you follow your rifle plan, but use something like a Nosler 200 Ballistic Tip or a Speer or Hornady 200 spitzer loaded to about 2800. Any of these bullets will give you ample penetration on a black bear at that velocity along with adequate enough expansion to deliver a quickly fatal shot.

Sure, the slow 250 will kill a bear, but you will likely have to follow it quite a way while it figures out that it is supposed to die.

Good luck with your project!

I totally agree with your idea of a .35 whelen as a bear rifle. I did my 1st black bear hunt
over bait in ontario last year and used the whelen. I load 250gr nosler partitions that shoot
into one ragged hole at 100 yards. I did manage to shoot an average sized bear at about
40 yards. He was quartering towards me, my shot entered through the neck and exited thu
the far side shoulder, dropping the bear in his tracks. Like you I didn't want to spend
a lot of $ on a rifle, and since I already had a T/C encore muzzleloader, I just ordered a
35 whelen barel from their custom shop($250). As far as scopes go I recently purchased a
new leupold vx-II 2-7 and really like it. compact, clear, has vari-x III lens coatings and click
adjustments for under $250

I've had a Howa in 30-06 that I bought when I was 15. It's killed 5 mulies, and helped on a moose last year. It's also missed a few deer too. Those were more the adrenalized kid shooter behind it at the time though. She hasn't let me down since the first time she tasted blood though.
Good rifle for the dollar.
CDW

I'm not a lever action guy, but for a gun to hunt over bait a 45/70 (or something simialr) would be my choice over a 338 Win. If you plan to use the rifle for other types of hunting get the 338, however, if it's for a bear bait gun get something else. I've bowhunted bears over bait for years and it's easy to get shots a 15-20 yds. A 45/70 should flatten bears.

For the price of a cheap bolt action you can probably get a decent lever. Why settle for the cheapest gun you can find. A gun that costs $100 more looks just as good with a few rust spots.

I think you are on the right track-go for it.

I don't concur with the idea that the 250's won't work right quick. Trust me I've been in on the demise of quite a few blackies and it'll knock em in the dirt right quick!

"GET TO THE HILL"

Dog

I'm sure the .338 is fine and the Howa is probably a good base (the howa action is the basis for the cheaper weatherby).

have you considered the 9.3X62 using a military mauser action as a basis? the 9.3's balistics are similar to the .35

Stonecreek, to some extent I agree with you thats why I'm planning on using a 250gr Speer or Hornady.

Ray That would work if I had a 3006 and I can't bring myself to rebarrel my 6.5x55.

hotweatherhunter Do you like the standard duplex for bear hunting? If I'm forced to buy a new scope the 2-7 would be my first choice but I think I rather have the heavy duplex.

Now anybody know where I can find a cheap Howa in .338win?

[ 07-17-2002, 04:48: Message edited by: mark65x55 ]

I found a .338win with a Leapers 1.5-6x42 scope on it. I've never heard of or seen a Leapers scope. What can you tell me about them. Are they any good? Would I want to replace it? Would it compair to say a Bushnell Trophy? Heres a link to Leapers web page. http://www.leapers.com/OpticCatalog.htm

Mark -

I have a number of HOWAs (223/243/7RMAG/30-06), and, with the exception of the 243, that for one reason or another will not shoot like I think it should, they work well and are a great value. Well made, "improved" Mauser action and adjustable trigger, etc... At one time the HOWA action was the basis for the W'by Vanguard, the S-W 1500 and some others.

Also have a "Leapers" 1.5-6x42 scope I got from Natchez (I think) mounted on something or the other. It's a 30MM job, made in China, and, while it's nice and clear and I've had no problems with it, I don't know if I'd put it on a bear rifle.

R-WEST