Looks like goat boy stirred the pot then skedaddled...maybe he got the caprine spongiform encephalopathy (aka mad goat disease!)...or maybe he hasn't gotten his rectocranial inversion straightened out yet...where ever he is, one thing is sure...he doesn't need to be in TX any more than TX wants him. This is a real shame because the Wyoming residents I have known over the years were real salt of the earth types...just like most of the Texas folks I was raised with in the panhandle. WHO CARES if someone decides to hunt behind a high fence or shoot a pen raised elk or whatever. That doesn't mean everyone from that area does the same or even approves. BTW, if y'all will check with the Parks & Wildlife Dept in TX, you'll find that not only elk, but moose and black bear used to range freely in the Palo Duro Canyon area of the panhandle! MG, I hope your life improves because right now it seems rather limited and dismal!

quote:

Originally posted by ACRecurve:
Looks like goat boy stirred the pot then skedaddled...maybe he got the caprine spongiform encephalopathy (aka mad goat disease!)...or maybe he hasn't gotten his rectocranial inversion straightened out yet...where ever he is, one thing is sure...he doesn't need to be in TX any more than TX wants him. This is a real shame because the Wyoming residents I have known over the years were real salt of the earth types...just like most of the Texas folks I was raised with in the panhandle. WHO CARES if someone decides to hunt behind a high fence or shoot a pen raised elk or whatever. That doesn't mean everyone from that area does the same or even approves. BTW, if y'all will check with the Parks & Wildlife Dept in TX, you'll find that not only elk, but moose and black bear used to range freely in the Palo Duro Canyon area of the panhandle! MG, I hope your life improves because right now it seems rather limited and dismal!

What he said!!!

Funny how defensive folks become when you hit the nail on the head. The truth hurts eh?

Texas wouldn't be like it was if it wasn't for two issues: greed and money. If there wasn't any "book" or way to measure all your little TX dicks, there would be no "high fence" operation hunts (hell just call them what they are, livestock with horns and antlers). With the high fences came the "exotic" or "crap" wildlife. Your greed and desire to put as many heads into the great book has destroyed wildlife management in that state. For those of you who consider a bunch of circus and zoo animals running around non-native habitat "management" I pity you.

Texas sees its "critters" as dollar signs with horns. The desire to grow bigger and better deer has only increased the amount of "wild" deer behind high fences. When folks cannot distinguish whether or not an animal is truly a wild deer, or a captive deer, or a captive deer that escaped...that is a sad day.

Texas has not had any intrinsic desire or need to protect what occurs there naturally, or the wild places they live. No, you must import all these "others" (what the hell is a Texas dall anyhow...looks like a rambollet to me!) to fill in the gaps, to allow the fortunate few a chance to kill one of these "home grown" monster deer, elk, fallow deer, etc..... In all reality, what chance does your average Joe have to pursue wild game in your state without paying a huge fee? How many great bucks that come out of TX are actually harvested by your average Joe on public land or ones that didn't pay up a lot of green $$ ?? Any at all? Is there even a little guy in Texas?

I never knocked the quantity or quality of critters you have down there. It just happens when (as with the case with this bull) there is a debate whether or not it was killed behind a high fence or low fence...HOW SAD IS THAT? Should there even be this argument?

Keep your state...your large circus, zoo...what ever you call it. I don't care if you hunt behind a high fence, low fence, or next to a feeder full of corn. Just keep it down there. Wyoming has fought the good BS fight to keep this crap outta here and won (with the exception of the NX Bar, thanks Drummond I forgot about that place but it only has elk and only company employees can hunt there). We don't need your ideology or type up here anyhow (and I'll make all of you happy by saying I would never go back to Texas again...I'll keep the derogatory remarks to myself).

MG

Oh yea, every day I get the enjoyment of seeing hordes of your kind raping and pillaging the Wyoming landscape looking for oil and gas...screwing up what remaining wild and untouched places we have. Kind of hard not to be bitter at Texans after seeing how your kind and companies have treated our state...like some cheap Dallas whore.

MG,

Damn, you're an ignorant boy!

Does anyone know if that elk was farm raised? To my understanding it was wild. I dont think the area it came from has a high fenced ranch for hundreds of miles.

Perry

Time to use Oliver Wendell Holmes' quote:

"Controversy equalizes fools and wise men- and the fools know it"

In this case it's a singular "fool"...

quote:

Does anyone know if that elk was farm raised? To my understanding it was wild. I dont think the area it came from has a high fenced ranch for hundreds of miles.

According to the link it appears to have been farm raised as the elk's ear had a hole from an eartag. Some elk were released on the ranch several years ago. It had been free ranging for approximately four years or so.

Mr. M16,

So far I have been refered to as "ignorant" and a "s.o.b." by you, but I have not referenced anything regarding you, or how you conduct your self, or your level of intelligence in this discussion. All I have stated is my opinion of the deer in your state. You give me a pretty good idea of that anyway based upon your reaction to anyone whose opinion differs from yours. Lets see: my opinion differs from yours, so the name calling starts....I am an ignorant S.O.B. ...shit, sounds just like the damn Democratic party to me. I love your state, the people, the scenery...I have said the past 30 years that Texas is one more nice place....all I said was our deer are smarter. Period. I guess we just don't agree. Aw hell, it will all blow over after awhile...go back to watching "Brokeback Mountain" cowboy.

I have a friend in Fredericksburg, TX who tells me there is a fairly good population of free ranging elk in that area...seems the low or high fences can't keep them in reliably. There was an attempt several years ago to stock elk along the breaks of the Canadian River in the TX panhandle. Two bulls and a number of cows were released. One bull got poached and the other one had to be shot--it had over 100 lbs of barbed wire tangled in it's antlers and couldn't hold his head up any longer.

Madgoat wrote:

quote:

Oh yea, every day I get the enjoyment of seeing hordes of your kind raping and pillaging the Wyoming landscape

And you don't see any of your OWN RESIDENTS doing this??? During my last trip to Wyoming, I watched in horror as numerous individuals tore up the terrain in their precious little 4-wheelers. They were either TOO DUMB or TOO LAZY to walk. And when I drove by their camps, I didn't see a single truck with a Texas license plate.

Perhaps one of them belonged to you...

An interesting study done by the Texas Parks and Wildlife. Exotics are wonderful unless you are a whitetail deer....who give a ratts about wild deer..I got a few out back in the pen!!


White-tailed Deer vs. Exotics
Exotic deer were brought into the Texas Hill County in the 1930s. Exotic numbers began to increase rapidly in the 1950's, with the birth of the hunting industry. Exotic surveys by Texas Parks and Wildlife Department began in the 1960's. At that time, there were 13 species and about 13,000 animals. The last survey was in 1996. At that time, there were 190,000 animals and 76 species. According to the Texas Exotic Association there are now over 250,000 exotics.
The Kerr Wildlife Management Area has conducted food habit studies on axis, sika, fallow, blackbuck antelope, and aoudad.
All these studies indicated most exotics were sheep or goats in a deer's clothing. That is, they either preferred forbs or preferred browse, but could do well on grass too. White-tailed deer prefer forbs when they are available. As forbs become unavailable, they shift their diet to browse. White-tailed deer cannot live on grass; in fact, they will die with a belly full of grass.
Texas Parks and Wildlife Department also conducted competition studies between white-tailed deer and exotics. Six 96-acre pastures, enclosed with "deer-proof" fence and not grazed by any other animals, were used to determine the effects of exotic ungulates (axis deer, sika deer, fallow deer, blackbuck antelope, and aoudad sheep) on white-tailed deer. Each pasture was stocked with 6 white-tailed deer, and 6 animals of one exotic species. For example, Pasture 1 contained 6 whitetails and 6 axis deer; Pasture 2 contained 6 whitetails and 6 sika; etc.
These studies indicated that exotic ungulates out-compete white-tailed deer, and white-tailed deer will die while exotics continue to thrive. Remember, white-tailed deer can live on only 2 classes of forage (forbs and browse), while exotics can do well on 3 classes (forbs, browse, and grass). As forbs and browse are removed from the area (from excessive grazing/browsing pressure), exotics can shift their diet to grass and white-tailed deer die from malnutrition.

Looks like you're shooting yourselves in the foot if you want big whitetail...you have nice deer now, but could have bigger.

MG

Look, that's a beautiful bull and I tend to believe the measurements... I believe the photo not only does not exagerate that bull but doesn't do it justice. Is hunting elk in TX over a water hole the way I'd want to hunt elk? Absolutely not. That, however, does not take away from a beautiful bull.

quote:

Originally posted by Brad:
Look, that's a beautiful bull and I tend to believe the measurements... I believe the photo not only does not exagerate that bull but doesn't do it justice. Is hunting elk in TX over a water hole the way I'd want to hunt elk? Absolutely not. That, however, does not take away from a beautiful bull.

That's right!

MG,

At least you have begun to try and post something intelligent rather than the drivel you rambled on with previously. Why not START with facts and keep your generalized and only partially correct opinions to yourself?

quote:

All I have stated is my opinion of the deer in your state.

quote:

That state is like a big petting zoo. Maybe they shouldn't accept anything there as being "free range" therefore, would not be eligible for B&C...not like that really matters anyhow unless you are into getting your name in print.

quote:

Amen Madgoat!!! Well put!

Looks to me like you did a little more than that. You agreed with an ignorant statement hence the reason you were called ignorant. You have already admitted to the S.O.B. part.

Now when are we gonna hear about your vast experience hunting in Texas on which you base your opinion. I'll ask again

quote:

Who did you hunt with? What ranch? Which county? How many times have you hunted Texas? Enlighten us with your vast experience please.

Let me guess. Your opinion is based on TV shows and second hand information from friends. I don't do IQ tests on deer so I can't say whether our deer are smarter or dumber than your deer.

quote:

Looks like you're shooting yourselves in the foot if you want big whitetail...you have nice deer now, but could have bigger.

All well and good but most of the free range exotics are confined to the hill country and certain parts of South and West Texas. The majority of the state has no free ranging exotics. I would be happy to see them all exterminated.

Wow that's a huge elk!

MadGoat, when did you move to Wyoming and where are you originally from?

Sorry Ghorn, I was born & raised here in Wy.

If that bull had an ear tag at one time, in my mind that is what you call "lost livestock". Better get on the phone to the brand inspector.

MG

Madgoat nothing to be sorry about, I don't think anyway. I'm a Montanan who hunts your state quite regularly, and have just noticed that our most outspoken folks are typically move-ins from somewhere else. Don't jump to conclusions about ear tags. I was with a friend who shot a bear on USFS land, 12 miles from the trailhead and it had an eartag. Apparently it was darted and relocated as a youngster.

Have you ever been to Texas?

Sorry M16, I ain't gonna get any deeper in your damn pissing contest. Enjoy yourself and have a great life. It's threads like this that the anti's love to see and I just plain don't want to give them any more ammunition to attempt to ruin our great sport.

My "vast" hunting experience in Texas is mainly in the hill country from I-40 north, with some, but not many, trips to the Del Rio area. Come on down to Georgia and we will go smack some deer this fall and swap a few lies.

quote:

My "vast" hunting experience in Texas is mainly in the hill country from I-40 north,

Where's that? You mean I-10, right?

You have been to Texas, correct?

Umm, I-40 runs across the panhandle...waaaaay north of the hill country.

I find it ironic that someone from the great wild state of Wyoming who gets his kicks from shooting National Park Elk that are managed like cattle looking his nose down at hunting in Texas.

You might impress yourself Madgoat, but not anyone else.

McInnis,

You have a PM.

quote:

Sorry M16, I ain't gonna get any deeper in your damn pissing contest. Enjoy yourself and have a great life. It's threads like this that the anti's love to see and I just plain don't want to give them any more ammunition to attempt to ruin our great sport

Sounds good to me. Please accept my apology for the SOB comment. I just get a little hot under the collar when people assume that every deer killed in Texas comes from a high fenced ranch and is shot under a feeder. Although it certainly does happen and I don't condemn those who like to hunt that way. Hunting in Texas is not different than other places in that you can choose a hunt that makes it as easy or difficult as you want.

quote:

Originally posted by M16:

quote:

Sorry M16, I ain't gonna get any deeper in your damn pissing contest. Enjoy yourself and have a great life. It's threads like this that the anti's love to see and I just plain don't want to give them any more ammunition to attempt to ruin our great sport

Sounds good to me. Please accept my apology for the SOB comment. I just get a little hot under the collar when people assume that every deer killed in Texas comes from a high fenced ranch and is shot under a feeder. Although it certainly does happen and I don't condemn those who like to hunt that way. Hunting in Texas is not different than other places in that you can choose a hunt that makes it as easy or difficult as you want.

Amen.

Hate to generalize, but something tells me that in a state as big as Texas, there's something for everyone.

Whether it be hunting on huge ranches with big tall fences or not, I'm sure it's all available and it's all good.

mmaggi,

You're correct. TX has a bit of almost everything from the do-it-yourself hunts on public land to very expensive hunts to canned hunts. Best whitetail I've taken was on public land on the breaks of the Canadian River. I personally don't hunt over feeders or on senderos, but to each their own.

Welcome to AR!

I remember crossing the Canadian river several times in the Panhandle section of Texas (not hill country right?) or New Mexico when headed up to Eagle Nest to Elk hunt. That was some rough territory..hilly and so desolate I cannot see how anything could have lived there. I suppose this is the same territory you were talking about. Beautiful! Compared to our flatlands in South Ga with all our crops, it looked like the surface of the moon. It was just so different than what we are used to. All the locals said some nice bucks hung around there...your powers of observation had to be honed for that type of hunting. I had no doubt that the area was full of wildlife.

Take it easy

HankH,

I used to daydream the Canadian and it's breaks that crossed the panhandle were my private hunting preserve. When I lived up that way, there were whitetails, muleys, turkey, blue and bobwhite quail, a few pheasant, and doves. Occasionally, pronghorns would wander into the breaks from surrounding rolling prairie. Coyote and bobcat hunting were good, too. I found out the hard way once while attempting to cross the river after a rain had washed out the crossing that Nissan pickups will actually float for a short distance! Had to roll up the window so no more water would come in. I found another place to cross on my return trip. It's a fairly well kept secret...not the part about Nissans, just the Canadian river and surrounding area...can be rather rough to hunt in as well, but loads of fun.