What criteria do any of you use in determining who is or is not a "Real" hunter?

I guess it depends on the situation you are analysing at the time. Kind of a "How long is a piece of string" type question.

Is there any creditable yardstick that measures a "real" hunter anyway?

My thoughts would be along the lines of " is this a person I would offer to hunt with again" - the important word being again. I have hunted with many folk who have been a once-only companion , for a multitude of reasons.

Does that start the ball rolling ?

Only people that have 1000's of posts on AR that look down on the rest of us.
I hunt and I'm real so i must be a real hunter.
If I was a reel hunter I might be a fisherman.
I have more then one piece of camo clothing that I've gotten to big for. Wait that would make me a old out of shape hunter. I'm haveing a ball shooting chipmucks from my back deck this summer off bait. DAMM back to non hunter. Hunt about 75 day's a year,back to real hunter. Don't spend big money on guided hunts, Back to not so much of a real hunter. Get a Cabelas book in the mail every week, That must make me a real hunter. This thread could be a lot of fun

I hunt because I like to hunt. That's it!

I don't hunt to shoot trophies for the wall, but I like them. I really enjoy the meat, and I don't have any problem taking a female of the species.

I don't hunt for record books, though I like big animals. I really just like old animals, and if they are big it is a bonus.

I don't hunt for accolades from other people that have achieved accolades. Ie. the Weatherby Award, Grand Slams, Super Slam and so on. Though winning a Weatherby award or acheiving a Grand Slam/Super Slam would mean I had done a lot of hunting.

I don't hunt to achieve Inner Circles or other SCI Circle Jerks, but I do like variety. Would I hunt every big game animal on the planet? Probably not. I could be very happy picking 10-30 species I really liked, probably much happier than I would chasing after things like Royal antelope in West Africa to achieve some kind of collective big game list like birders use.

Some have rather strange definitions.
I used to hunt geese here on the river from a canoe .Rather challenging if done alone as you paddle down the river..I did that for some years when a TVstation had a program about it .The response to the program ? many were angry saying it wasn't sporting !
How clueless ! What they didn't know , and the program didn't say was that technique was used by the Indians a very long time ago !
I was very successful unlike most .In fact a game warden my friend met said it couldn't be done with any success.My friend laughed as he told the warden about me. You have to know what you're doing !

Being that very few of us are have to sustenance hunt, I'll take it that you mean hunting in contemporary sport hunting method and add my thoughts based on that.

First I think a hunter can be short or tall, fat or thin, rich or poor, white collar or blue...doesnt matter. I dont think a real hunter has to have so much woodsmanship he can sneak up on a whitetail and stab it with a knife or track a desert bighorn over solid rock. Nor do I think a real hunter has to have a custom rifle with the best optics but if he does, more power to him! He doesn’t have to be a techno wizard, nor know all about animal biology and behavior, nor have to be a crack shot that never misses.

To me:
A real hunter is one who derives so much pleasure from being afield that it is painful to be away even for a short period. The real hunter is one that looks forward to opening day all year, even if only for squirrels or dove. The real hunter is one that enjoys seeing any animal, trophy or not and revels in the experience. The real hunter is one that tries to the best of his ability to get his quarry and is disappointed if he doesn’t, but not devastated. A real hunter is one who shares his knowledge and enjoys the success of others and is not jealous of it. A real hunter is one who never tires of hunting talk from like minded comrades or a seemingly endless pursuit thats left him winded and footsore. He takes the bad times in stride and is better and wiser for it but never lets it dampen his desire.

Just my thoughts on the subject.

Adam

Really good observations folks, Thank You.

muzza, my hat is off to you Sir

Your two statements:

quote:

Is there any creditable yardstick that measures a "real" hunter anyway?

quote:

" is this a person I would offer to hunt with again"

Pretty well hit the nail on the head for me.

Hopefully this will not offend anyone, if it does I apologise at the same time however I suggest that any offended parties do a little historical research on these men.

The prestigious Boone and Crockett club uses in much of its information concerning its workings the names of three famous American Hunters. Boone and Crockett of course and Theodore Roosevelt. I agree that all were accomplished hunters/outdoorsmen, but until or unless someone takes the time to do some research on these three, much of the business in B&C's literature is flawed when it comes to the actual/factual side of these mens role as American hunters.

Boone(1734-1820) and Crockett(1786-1836) lived during a period of time when game was plentiful and there was no refridgeration. Claims are made about these mens ideas of "Fair Chase". In reality, at that time in history there was no concept of "Fair Chase". For men such as these two there was one priority and that was to stay alive, and that meant finding food and avoiding Indians. These men had to kill to eat and they had to kill often to have fresh meat. If they could kill something without having to fire a shot they did so. Also, they were not selective as to what they shot, they could not afford to be.

TR did much for the American public by setting aside such places as Yellowstone, but he was very much of an elitist attitude when it came to hunting and he was of the opinion that the "Average" person of his day and time really did not have any business hunting and only the more educated and social elite had the correct background should be allowed in the field.

TR is one of my personal heroes, but he had his faults as do any of us. One aspect that I ponder when talking about hunting and who is or is not a real hunter, concerns how we judge others and what criteria we use. Which is more important or realistic, how much time a person has spent hunting, what species a person has hunted, how much $$$$ they have spent on hunts/hunting related accoutrements, where they have hunted or the number of real "Book" quality animals they have killed.

To me, a real hunter is one that hunts legally for the area they hunt in. I don't frown on anyone that does that, whether it is stand hunting, modern hunting, traditional hunting (longbow or flintlock, etc), still hunting, long range hunting, bait hunting, trophy hunting, meat hunting, hound hunting, "guaranteed" hunting. I just don't look down on the way other way people choose to do it as long as it is legal. It is still "real" hunting. I may not hunt that way, but I sure won't put someone down for it. We need all the hunters we can get to keep the sport alive. A child's first deer or game animal over bait or from a ground blind is just as much real hunting to the child either way.

As for TR, he was an elitist dick that had a goal of taking land away from the states for his personal purposes, period.

A hunter is simply someone who hunts. In this day and age legality is part of the description. "Hunter" denotes someone who follows the law while "poacher" describes someone who doesn't.

Is there a "time limit?" Does 'intent' matter? I consider myself a hunter because I've hunted in the past and I have definite plans to hunt again in the future. On the other hand, I've fished (and have caught fish) in the past but I'll probably never do it again because I have no interest in fishing. Can I be called a fisherman? (I don't consider myself as one.) On the flip side there are those who have hunted but have no interest or plans of ever hunting again. Are these people still hunters?

Discussions about what constitutes hunting and what are the qualities of a "real" hunter invariably involve boasting about one's self or disparaging someone else.

quote:

Originally posted by ted thorn:

I agree.....how many variations of the same question are there? It's already been a loooooong summer.

Drawings are over.........people are making plans.......some are already scouting.......and this is the top thread???

quote:

We need all the hunters we can get to keep the sport alive.

That sounds like a really reasonable concept to me. I guess for some folks it is easier to draw lines of division and find reasons to think onesself better than others that enjoy hunting.

Norton please elaborate on your comment:

quote:

I agree.....how many variations of the same question are there?

Can you point out how this is the same question?? If you can please do so, I am curious. One simply asks for individual beliefs on what Hunting is.

This one asks what an individual thinks about when referring to themself or another person as being a "Real" hunter.

Do you consider yourself a "Real" hunter? Do you consider someone that avails themself of HF operations as being a "Real" hunter? Are you willing to answer that?

Randall,
TR did alot for outdoorsmen setting aside lots of land. ect But he was not much of a hunter, he depended on people to guide him and he was a elistist. He didn't do much for himself. He became president less then 35 miles from where I live,Newcomb NY MT Marcy. He was a man of money and came from a life prevalige. Not saying that he didn.t do good things but he was not much of a hunter more of just a good client.

I reread your post and I agree with what you said about TR. Must remember to wear glasses

I hunt because I must, and I will hunt until I can't.

Bill Quimby

quote:

I hunt because I must, and I will hunt until I can't.

If more people went afield with that type attitude this would be a better world.

I call myself a hunter, and feel like I have earned that right. One trend I have noticed over the past 2 decades, is a movement among "hunters" to find reasons to divide themselves into groups, believing that anyone that does not share the exact same interest in hunting that they do, is not a real hunter.

I judge a hunter by the amount of experience they have had, the game they have hunted and their attitude toward others. Hunting is what the individual makes of it, and if they are conducting themselves in a legal manner and have no problems with what they are doing and how they are doing it, it is none of my business how they refer to themselves.

I know several hunters that are so much more skilled, have more "back country" hunting knowledge, and are plainly better outdoorsmen than I am. But I can guarantee you that none have any more love for the sport than I. After hunting season, my thoughts always turn towards how, what and where I will hunt next season. I hunt deer, elk, turkey, quail and in the past, varmint. If I could hunt year around, I'd be a happy camper/hunter. Unfortunately, I'm a banker by trade and I have to work to support my hobby.

quote:

Originally posted by Biggs300:
I know several hunters that are so much more skilled, have more "back country" hunting knowledge, and are plainly better outdoorsmen than I am. But I can guarantee you that none have any more love for the sport than I. After hunting season, my thoughts always turn towards how, what and where I will hunt next season. I hunt deer, elk, turkey, quail and in the past, varmint. If I could hunt year around, I'd be a happy camper/hunter. Unfortunately, I'm a banker by trade and I have to work to support my hobby.

+1

Our general hunting season typically ends the first Sunday in Janauary. Usually about January 15th, I remark to folks, well it's only 8 months and 15 days till bow season starts. They look at me like I'm a looney. For the past umpteen years or so I don't order my life around spring, summer, fall, winter, but Spring turkey the month of April, Dove season starts in September, bow season for whitetail in October, rile season in November. Hogs and varmints are enjoyed year 'round. My family and tenants know that October through January 1st, trying to get a bead on me is quite difficult. Don't know if that makes me a hunter or not.

IIRC, when I was about 6 years old, my dad pulled a couple pups out of an incinerator just before a fellow set it on fire. He whipped the guy's ass, then brought the pups home. We named them Cinder and Smutty. Cinder was mine, and soon her name was Cindy. Wasn't long till we were running rabbits in the field across from my house. She'd tree squirrels and catch rabbits. Was that hunting?

Fast forward a few years to a different home in another area. Behind our house was Turtle Creek. Beyond the creek was an undeveloped mecca of several thousand acres of cow pasture and woods that was bordered on the back side with a couple miles of railroad track. Just the place for an 11 year old to wander. In 1961 you could do that, grab your B-B gun and disappear for hours on end. I'd stalk bull frogs and turtles on the creek, twist rabbits out of holes with at forked stick, shoot doves sparrows and Jackdaws on the power lines that ran parallel to the tracks. Was that hunting?

About the same time my dad bought a piece of property, say 160 acres give or take. Nice thing about it, it was surrounded on three sides with a 4,500 acre holding that was leased to timber companies. A mile of creek frontage was bordered by a national forest. Shortly after he bought the place he dug a 4 acre lake. Just the place where a 13 year old could disappear from morning till night with a sack lunch, a book, a fishing pole and a 22 rifle. Get up early enough and one could usually escape chores. For a number of years we spent the whole summer there.I was lucky in that my mom could see that the love of the woods was in my blood. My brothers would ask, where’s Gdub. My mother would say, I think he’s hunting.

When I got into my mid teens and for the next ten years surfing became a way of life, but from time to time I would break down my Winchester model 63, left to me by my grandfather, stick it and a pistol in a back pack, hitchhike up to our farm, stay there for a week or so living off fish I’d catch or rabbits and squirrels I’d pot shoot. Was that hunting?

Between 1999 and 2010, I probably spent 60 days out of each calendar year in the field with a rifle or bow. I figure during that time a conservative estimate would log well over 4,000 hours observing and watching, with the final result being the taking of game or varmints. I thought I was hunting?

Anyhow, what ever your call it, I like it
There’s a fellow who posts here named Todd, calls himself Just-a-hunter. I like his epitaph.
“Hunting isn't something I do. It's who I am.”
I can relate.

Best

GWB

I plan and hunt year around I don't kill year around but I sure do take notice of game animals.

Very time I see game I planning WHAT,WHERE,WHEN and HOW.

Like this year I am seeing more grouse then I have in years. Saw a bald pie buck the other day, then a hen turkey and what looked like a 2nd brood.

More rabbits then in a long time,

Wife has a bear tag. maybe I'll get very lucky and draw a wolf tag.

Things are looing up for this fall.

I was watching a "hunting show" the other day 4 guys from TX coming to Wis to qoute "bow hunt"

Right off I knew it was A HIGH FENCE SHOOT. When they started to talk about each of them killing 180 plus class bucks.

Not once during the show or on the web site did they, do they mention the size of the property.

They did show lots of big buck coiming into corn piles.

here the price list

Bucks scoring up to 145 SCI – $2,800
Bucks scoring 146 to 165 SCI – $5,000
Bucks scoring 166 to 180 SCI – $7,500
Bucks scoring 181 to 189 SCI – $9,500
Bucks scoring 190 to 199 SCI – $11,000
Bucks scoring 200 to 210 SCI – $13,000
Bucks scoring 210 – 219 – $15,000

Bucks over 240 are individually priced
White and pied deer are an extra $2,500

Not hunting IMHO shooting yes sitting in a high fence area with tame bucks over a bait pile is shooting not hunting IMHO.

For those of you who "Hunt" these areas more power to you and I hope you enjoyed it.

Hunters not this time just shooters.

Not for me for sure.

I thought it rather funny on how hard they tried to make it.

On how they each passed up huge bucks because they were just not right.

I am sure they were thinking dam if I shoot the wrong buck its going to cost me lots of dollars.

In the wild any one of those bucks would have been shot the frist time with out a second thought.

I am sure the GUIDE was telling them thats one 5000 that ones 8000 ect in making the desions on what to shoot.

I have been spending as many days per year as I could with a firearm or fishing tackle, many times both, since 1966. In looking back and thinking about it, to the best of my figuring for 45+ years, I have averaged 100+ days a year hunting or fishing or both.

I have been very fortunate in my life to have been able to march to the beat of my own special drummer and God has smiled on me for a long time by granting me fairly decent health and physical abilities so that I can enjoy my time in the field. Since 1998, I have been doubly blessed in that for some of that time I am in the field, I get paid for being out there.

Also I have had the chance to hunt and fish with some really great folks, made aquaintences with folks that I still correspond with. It has not been without its costs, a 17 year marriage, a really good lady, but trying to compete for my time with the stuff I wanted to do just got to be too much.

God smiled on me again and brought me and Lora together and on the 29th. of August we will celebrate our 20th. Wedding Anniversary. My days end with me trying to figure out where my next major trip will be. I have the chance, if I decide to take it, to go to Africa on a PG hunt and it is an exciting prospect. I am still wanting to go after another bear and a larger Moose.

In reality, I do not know how to be anything else but a hunter/fisherman/outdoorsman, and I would not want things any different.

quote:

Posted 19 July 2012 16:19Hide Post
I was watching a "hunting show" the other day 4 guys from TX coming to Wis to qoute "bow hunt"

Right off I knew it was A HIGH FENCE SHOOT. When they started to talk about each of them killing 180 plus class bucks.

Not once during the show or on the web site did they, do they mention the size of the property.

They did show lots of big buck coiming into corn piles.

here the price list

Bucks scoring up to 145 SCI – $2,800
Bucks scoring 146 to 165 SCI – $5,000
Bucks scoring 166 to 180 SCI – $7,500
Bucks scoring 181 to 189 SCI – $9,500
Bucks scoring 190 to 199 SCI – $11,000
Bucks scoring 200 to 210 SCI – $13,000
Bucks scoring 210 – 219 – $15,000

Bucks over 240 are individually priced
White and pied deer are an extra $2,500

Not hunting IMHO shooting yes sitting in a high fence area with tame bucks over a bait pile is shooting not hunting IMHO.

For those of you who "Hunt" these areas more power to you and I hope you enjoyed it.

Hunters not this time just shooters.

Not for me for sure.

I thought it rather funny on how hard they tried to make it.

On how they each passed up huge bucks because they were just not right.

I am sure they were thinking dam if I shoot the wrong buck its going to cost me lots of dollars.

In the wild any one of those bucks would have been shot the frist time with out a second thought.

I am sure the GUIDE was telling them thats one 5000 that ones 8000 ect in making the desions on what to shoot.

I have worked on such a place here in Texas, and while it does not bother me if people want to refer to it as hunting, it is npothing more than grocery shopping. Having talked to people that avail themselves of doing the HF hunts, many or most really are hunters, but in their evolution as they got older and life began making more demands on their time, because of their philosophy of things it just became easier and less stressful to do a 3 or 4 day "Hunt" on a HF place than commit the time/effort/energy to do a guided hunt in the Rockies or somewhere. Also, just an opinion on part here, but many or most of these individuals are "Success Driven", as such they are more concerned with impressive antlers to show off to their socio-economic peer group than meat or actual hunting experiences. Again, that is just an opinion on my part.

I'm rarely ever critical of how a fellow takes game. Yes there are slob hunters. Yes there are many ways I choose not to "hunt" or kill game.

I've never hunted high fence and have no desire to. If a property were large enough I'd probably hunt high fence. Trouble is, usually if game is behind a high fence, I won't pay what they charge. If someone was to say to me, hey come shoot a 200 class buck for free. We will pick you up in our limo and take you straight to the lodge. Sleep in our heated lodge and have your drinks brought to you, breakfast is a 6 am. No hurry to get to the feeders before daylight as they don't go off till 8 am and the big bucks don't show up for another 10 minutes or so. Go out sit for 30 minutes, be back in by 9 AM and have the guide do the skinning and quartering. I'd probably do that. But I don't know if I would call it hunting. I sure wouldn't have the temerity to come here and brag.

I've never scored an animal I shot. My biggest Audad and Blackbuck, I did measure the circumference of the bases and length of the horns IIRC. We have an amazing variety and quantity of game. Much more so than what I experienced on my hunts in Colorado and Montana. It would be nice if Texas had vast amounts of open range available for public hunting, but we don't. In that regard I'm envious of you folks in the western states.

I will say from my experience bow hunting, coming to full draw on a mature Texas whitetail buck at 15 to 23 paces, while sitting in a tripod, or even a ground blind is not 100% and far from it. Maybe if we had trees in the area where one could be 20 ft or more above ground level. I can't tell you how many times I've had to let off cause I could not hold the draw when the deer got hung up behind a bush or got busted by an old doe.

Best

GWB

I don't know where it came from, but being an outdoorsman has been in my blood since I was a very young man. Back when it was safe to do so, in the summers, my mother and father used to let mee take off walking toward the rice canals that were five miles north of where we lived. I couldn't have been over seven or eight... of course, I never made the entire walk; usually by the time I had made it a quarter mile or so, somebody picked me up and took me to the canals. When I got through fishing, somebody else picked me up while I was walking home, and deposited me at the end of the street we lived on.

In my pre-teen years I have a specific memory of taking my grandfather's .410 shotgun and killing three cottontails from the field below the stock tank. Unfortunately, at that time I didn't know to hold high and just clip the head with a few pellets... the rabbits were pretty shot up, but my late father helped me clean them and my grandmother cooked them as part of our supper. Oh, I was proud.

I remember almost freezing to death waiting for daylight and the sun while deer hunting as a pre-teen. I remember helping Dad clean the whitetails he took; I never was so lucky... I was young enough that I couldn't take the recoil of a high powered rifle, and Dad would put me in a tree with a .22 rifle, telling me to only shoot at the head. He was smart enough to know I was going to move around way too much to see any deer, but I wasn't. I was hunting!

As a late teenager I started building my own fishing rods. I still do... Then, somewhere in my late 20s I started handloading my own ammunition, casting my own projectiles, and target shooting to better my skills. I still do that, too. Muzzleloaders became part of the ritual somewhere around 2000.

I have shot quite a few deer, but I shoot to eat, and I will take a doe in a heartbeat if the opportunity arises and everything is legal... And given the choice of pigs or deer, I take the pigs. The deer will come back.

I have shot whitetails and hogs while watching feeders, but have shot them while walking or just stand sitting as well, without the benefit of "bait".

I have one 5 X 5 bull elk to my credit, shot in 1997 after walking and glassing for two solid days, and have a very good friend to thank for the privilege. (He posts on this site as Blank...) The subsequent four trips back to Idaho have been fruitless as far as the taking of game, but daylight over pristine white, snow-blanketed ridges, moose, elk on ridges far too far to stalk, spruce and sage grouse, listening to the wind rattle aspen leaves, and hours with special friends in the mountains, in their own way are all far better trophies than antlers or a set of prongs.

I still process all my wild game myself; I insist on it. That way I know exactly how clean and gland/tendon and muscle sheath free the meat is. And I know what I get back from the processor is unbeatable table fare...

Am I a hunter? Probably not to a whole lot of those whose photo albums are flush with photos of that year's successes. But I have taken full Canada geese in Wisconsin, shot pheasant, killed a buck in the northern woods, cast for and caught king salmon off the pier at the mouth of the Kewaunee river. I have eaten mourning doves cooked over coals, and I have enjoyed harvested game cooked outdoors below stars so close they look as if you could reach up and grab a handful...

But probably the greatest thrill of life so far was three years ago with my son: we were at his company deer lease, and it had been hunted hard. I found a nice management buck for Mark to take, and he did. The buck should have been a ten but had no brow tines. His right main beam was broken at the G-4, and I convinced Mark he was a trophy in his own right...

I hunted for five days and never shot. Oh, I saw bucks, just nothing mature enough to justify taking. I had a deer and two pigs already for the season; there was no need to be greedy.

One of the men we were there with asked my son why I didn't kill a deer. My son's answer was "Because he doesn't just shoot anything; he's a hunter."

Maybe his opinion of me is the only one that matters...

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:

Not hunting IMHO shooting yes sitting in a high fence area with tame bucks over a bait pile is shooting not hunting IMHO.

For those of you who "Hunt" these areas more power to you and I hope you enjoyed it.

Hunters not this time just shooters.

I agree.....and I have ZERO problem with people doing it, but don't call it hunting!

Shooting relatively tame animals that are CONDITIONED to feed at bait piles is just that....not hunting (which, to keep in the spirit of the thread, would make the person a shooter, not a hunter on that particular day).

Point is, you can be a hunter and a shooter, just depends on the particular situation.

Example: is a tower shoot for game birds hunting?

quote:

"Because he doesn't just shoot anything; he's a hunter."

While I will shoot anything and usually do, there are times when I let stuff walk, simply because I do not need to kill anything that day.

I make an exception with coyotes and bobcats, if I see it and have the shot I will kill it.

I am comfortable with my conduct in the field as well as with my business and personal relationships. I will let others judge but I think a real hunter is someone who feels hunting means something like this to them.

"A world in which a sacramental portion of food can be taken in an old way-hunting, fishing,farming,and gathering-has as much to do with societal sanity as a day's work for a day's pay" Thomas McGuane (The Heart Of The Game)

I had never saw that quotation, but it is one of the best I have ever read. Many Thanks for sharing that.

You are welcome. I expect you would enjoy reading some of his stories.