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Vermont Man Killed By Bear Hunter While Picking Berries
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Police: Dying man begged for help after being shot
Bail is set at $25,000 for accused shooter
September 7, 2005

By DANIEL BARLOW Southern Vermont Bureau

BRATTLEBORO — A Jacksonville man who was shot after being mistaken for a bear asked his alleged killer to call police and get him medical attention, prosecutors said Tuesday.

Douglas Bartlett, 50, was shot early Saturday evening while he was picking berries in the woods of Whitingham. Prosecutors say his killer, who fled the scene after the shooting, is Brian D. Gilbert.

"He left the scene after the killing and after talking with the victim," said Windham County Deputy State's Attorney David Gartenstein in Brattleboro District Court Tuesday. "He did not seek help."

Gilbert, 26, of Charlemont, Mass., pleaded innocent to a felony charge of second-degree murder and was held on $25,000 cash bail following the arraignment. He faces the possibility of life in prison if convicted.

Police said Gilbert thought Bartlett was a bear when he shot him once in the shoulder with a .30-30 Marlin lever-action rifle off of Lone Pine Road. The bullet traveled through Bartlett's chest cavity and punctured both lungs, according to an autopsy conducted over the weekend.

Gilbert briefly spoke with Bartlett, before the victim "exhaled and fell backwards from his knees" and died, according to court documents.

"The defendant did speak with (Bartlett) very briefly after the shooting," said State Police Detective Sgt. William Jenkins on Tuesday. "(Bartlett) asked him for help, he asked him to call 911."

Gilbert, who has been held at the Springfield prison since his arrest Sunday, walked into the courtroom Tuesday with his legs and arms shackled. He wore a gray T-shirt and pants and appeared not to have shaved in several days.

He hung his head low throughout the court proceedings, looking up only when the judge was speaking. He conferred briefly with his public defender, but did not address the court.

Several members of Bartlett's family declined to comment following the arraignment. Bartlett, an active member of local school boards who ran a family construction business, grew up in Whitingham and graduated from Whitingham High School. He had three daughters.

According to court documents, Gilbert spent Saturday hunting in the Whitingham woods with his younger brother. Sometime between 5 and 6 p.m., the two saw what appeared to be an animal in some bushes; Gilbert allegedly aimed through his scope and fired, police said.

Gilbert later told police that before he fired, he heard what sounded like a bear and thought he saw the animal's head lift up in the vegetation and sniff the wind, according to court documents.

"He advised that he heard a moan, and was initially excited because he thought he shot a bear," Jenkins wrote in his affidavit. "He advised that he started running toward the direction he shot and heard a person asking for help."

The brothers panicked, ran back to their truck and drove home, according to court documents.

Gilbert and his brother returned to the scene around 10 p.m. to see if the body was discovered yet and fled again when they saw state troopers there, court documents state. An uncle alerted Massachusetts police Sunday that one of his nephews had shot someone while hunting in Vermont.

Bartlett's father reported him missing around 9:30 Saturday night. The body was discovered shortly after 11 p.m. in some bushes near his car, police said.

Police found a Winchester .30-30 casing believed to be from Gilbert's weapon about 21 yards from where Bartlett's body was discovered, according to court documents.

Gartenstein said Tuesday that Gilbert was 60 to 70 feet away from Bartlett, in daylight, when he fired. The deputy state's attorney said that distance was the same length of the courtroom in Brattleboro from one diagonal corner to the other.

Citing no ties to Vermont and the possibility of life in prison as a possible reason to flee, Gartenstein asked that Gilbert be held on $100,000 cash bail.

His court-appointed public defender, Mimi Brill, said the Massachusetts towns that Gilbert lives and works in are close to the Vermont border. He also has a 6-year-old daughter and another child on the way, she said.

Gilbert lives with his mother and several siblings and works as a carpenter, Brill said. Two uncles are former law enforcement officials, she added, including one who is a retired Vermont State Police trooper.

"The family is still struggling to get the $10,000 bail together from when he was arrested," she said. "This is not a family of great means. These are working people."

Judge Kathleen Hayes set bail at $25,000 cash. She pointed out that Gilbert's home is close to the state line and he did cooperate with police after his arrest.

Jenkins, the State Police detective, said he is still investigating the shooting. He would not say what aspects of the case are being reviewed or if further charges are being considered.

"We need to cover all our bases, but I can't really comment on the specifics of that," he said.

Contact Daniel Barlow at daniel.barlow@rutlandherald.com.


Gilbert, 26, of Charlemont, Mass., pleaded innocent to a felony charge of second-degree murder and was held on $25,000 cash bail following the arraignment. He faces the possibility of life in prison if convicted.

Second-degree murder and a $25,000 cash bail my a**. Thirteen steps up and a long drop on a short rope is to good for Gilbert. A slow broil over a burning brush pile is more in keeping with the crime. And what about Gilbert’s brother? Why wasn’t he arrested for being an accomplice after the fact? Sounds shots? No hunter worth being called a “Hunter†ever takes sounds shots. I can see how hard it is to tell the difference between a man and a Black Bear at 21 yards. Lawdog
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Posts: 1254 | Location: Northern California | Registered: 22 December 2002Reply With Quote
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They have a nice new jail up in Springfield for
this Slob Hunter. I hope he gets what he
deserves....
 
Posts: 714 | Location: CT | Registered: 16 December 2004Reply With Quote
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It's about time that people like this were held accountable for their actions.
 
Posts: 3104 | Location: alberta,canada | Registered: 28 January 2002Reply With Quote
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I will say this carefully as not to offend...

After I graduated college, where I had gone in Massachusetts... I moved up to that same area in Vermont...

The area is beautiful and rurally secluded...

Then I made the decision to go into the military instead of going on to law school....

After my 2 yr active duty stint.. I went back to Vermont for about 3 months... I decided however to leave New England and head back out to Washington State where I had been stationed in the service...

My main reason was that being on the border with Massachusetts.... One had to interface with a lot of people from there..

NOT EVEN ONE THERE IS LIKE THAT.. However I saw so much social irresponsibility there,

It had really become apparent after being stationed in Washington in the service, and I returned...

However, way too many seemed to have the idea that if one does not get caught at something, then it is okay... While the politicians in that state can't pass enough laws fast enough, on the other end... way too many residents of the state just seem to either ignore or avoid any law that is an inconvenience or they just feel like thumbing their noses at...

While this type of thing is a real shocker to most of us, that they would shoot someone by mistake and then run even after being asked for help.... I would expect to see more of that in Massachusetts than any other part of the country...

Don't ask me why, that most of those in the surrounding states are more socially responsible than in Massachusetts... but it seems so.. even in New York...They are not all like that, but way too many are...

I would not be surprised to see this guy get off on this crime...The bail set already is indicative of life in Massachusetts....

That is why I learned to call it Messa-TWO-Shitts...Kerry and Ted Kennedy being from there, have done nothing to discourage my opinion of it....

Sorry to Don if he catches this post..

But that is how I see it...Great area but some real screwed up ideas on social conscience...

seafire
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Posts: 16144 | Location: Southern Oregon USA | Registered: 04 January 2005Reply With Quote
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Well said,I see that alot being on the CT/Mass
Border.Also working in the Jail System.No one
wants to be responsible for their actions.
"I guess,People are raised different today"
 
Posts: 714 | Location: CT | Registered: 16 December 2004Reply With Quote
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"While this type of thing is a real shocker to most of us, that they would shoot someone by mistake and then run even after being asked for help.... I would expect to see more of that in Massachusetts than any other part of the country...

Don't ask me why, that most of those in the surrounding states are more socially responsible than in Massachusetts... but it seems so.. even in New York...They are not all like that, but way too many are...

I would not be surprised to see this guy get off on this crime...The bail set already is indicative of life in Massachusetts...."

_____________________________________________

I'm curious as to exactly when you lost touch with reality. Care to state what source (any source) of data is as far as your bogus generalities? Oh, you have nothing other than your opinion based in...your opinion? Big surprise!

That kind of blanket statement is so far off the wall it's beyond contempt. As a New Englander and Bostonian, I'm here to say you're way off base with your comments. To say that Kennedy and Kerry suck, hey, I'm in total agreement, as are most of the people I talk to and call friends. I also would agree that many here aren't as prone to even say 'hello' to a stranger on the street, one thing among countless others I lament. But such is life here, and I do see folks all the time giving a seat to a pregnant or elderly person, helping those stuck on the highway or in a snowbank, checking in on old folks, donating time and money to all manner of charity and drives (food, cancer, disaster relief--we are landing hundreds of refugees on the Cape from the stricken areas down south as we speak, for example) and all sorts of stuff that good people do for one another. And while this ain't exactly a place where a stranger can rap on someone's door in the middle of the night and get directions and a cup of coffee, we have our healthy share of fine, upstanding, socially responsible people. That bastard who killed the berry picker wasn't one of them, and he'll get 20 years plus to think about that.

I was very put-off by your statements, as you can see. Now state your sources--a study or somesuch would suffice--otherwise get out a fork and start eating your bullshit statement. It is, after all, just a plate of exactly that, from another hater who couldn't handle living in a place for whatever reason, and left. Right?

Your statement in the beginning of your fantasy says it all: "don't ask me why, but.."

I'll tell you why you started with that: because you're freaking clueless and what you said has NO BASIS IN FACT!

Man, some people just can't hate enough, can they?
 
Posts: 2897 | Location: Boston, MA | Registered: 04 January 2005Reply With Quote
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This is just a bad as the Pennasylvania hunter shot and killed by his guide at 10 feet this past August...Then they left the body in the bush as they flew back to civilization...You can read about this in the Alaska forum ' Sad News '...

Kamo you had better research Ted and his young secretary who went off the Chappiquitik bridge....And guess what he got away with it...

Mike


Michael Podwika... DRSS bigbores and hunting www.pvt.co.za " MAKE THE SHOT " 450#2 Famars
 
Posts: 6768 | Location: Wyoming, Pa. USA | Registered: 17 April 2003Reply With Quote
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And Mary Jo Kopechne's death some 40+ years ago resulting from (at least in part) by TK's cowardice has *what* to do with the argument at hand? This should be good.

Do dirty pols sometimes get a free pass when they should be imprisoned? Of course. You think MA has cornered the market on that kind of BS? Yeah, right. Feeble retort.

And to compare what happened in AK in that accidental shooting isn't even close to what allegedly happened in VT. IN this most recent tragedy a man was shot and killed in criminal negligence and the guy who did the shooting left the vic there to try to avoid culpability. The AK incident as I understand it was completely different. No one tried to hide the fact that a terrible tragedy had occurred--that one too sounded to me like pure negligence, but the fact that the VT guys LEFT and DIDN'T TELL ANYONE is what makes it a real crime. You getting the difference yet?

Oh, and that's 'Chappaquiddick', sport.

Next!
 
Posts: 2897 | Location: Boston, MA | Registered: 04 January 2005Reply With Quote
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by 4t1mag:
Also working in the Jail System.No one
wants to be responsible for their actions.
QUOTE]

I missed this earlier. You work in a prison system and you see lots of people who don't want to be be held responsible for ther actions? Hmm. YA THINK? You work with *criminals*! This is getting funnier by the minute! Are you guys for real?
 
Posts: 2897 | Location: Boston, MA | Registered: 04 January 2005Reply With Quote
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Reminds me of the story a camp ground owner told me in Canada. The owner only had one leg he said him and his buddy were out moose hunting when his buddy shot him in the leg.

His buddy walked up and looked at him and was going to walk away and leave him. The owner grabbed his rifle and told his buddy if you start to leave you are going to stay also. His so called buddy helped him out He lost his leg from the hip down.

Maybe that is way he a very bad drinking propblem.
 
Posts: 19617 | Location: wis | Registered: 21 April 2001Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Kamo Gari:
"While this type of thing is a real shocker to most of us, that they would shoot someone by mistake and then run even after being asked for help.... I would expect to see more of that in Massachusetts than any other part of the country...

Don't ask me why, that most of those in the surrounding states are more socially responsible than in Massachusetts... but it seems so.. even in New York...They are not all like that, but way too many are...

I would not be surprised to see this guy get off on this crime...The bail set already is indicative of life in Massachusetts...."

_____________________________________________

I'm curious as to exactly when you lost touch with reality. Care to state what source (any source) of data is as far as your bogus generalities? Oh, you have nothing other than your opinion based in...your opinion? Big surprise!

That kind of blanket statement is so far off the wall it's beyond contempt. As a New Englander and Bostonian, I'm here to say you're way off base with your comments. To say that Kennedy and Kerry suck, hey, I'm in total agreement, as are most of the people I talk to and call friends. I also would agree that many here aren't as prone to even say 'hello' to a stranger on the street, one thing among countless others I lament. But such is life here, and I do see folks all the time giving a seat to a pregnant or elderly person, helping those stuck on the highway or in a snowbank, checking in on old folks, donating time and money to all manner of charity and drives (food, cancer, disaster relief--we are landing hundreds of refugees on the Cape from the stricken areas down south as we speak, for example) and all sorts of stuff that good people do for one another. And while this ain't exactly a place where a stranger can rap on someone's door in the middle of the night and get directions and a cup of coffee, we have our healthy share of fine, upstanding, socially responsible people. That bastard who killed the berry picker wasn't one of them, and he'll get 20 years plus to think about that.

I was very put-off by your statements, as you can see. Now state your sources--a study or somesuch would suffice--otherwise get out a fork and start eating your bullshit statement. It is, after all, just a plate of exactly that, from another hater who couldn't handle living in a place for whatever reason, and left. Right?

Your statement in the beginning of your fantasy says it all: "don't ask me why, but.."

I'll tell you why you started with that: because you're freaking clueless and what you said has NO BASIS IN FACT!

Man, some people just can't hate enough, can they?


Gary,

One does not need facts to base an opinion on....

If some one slapped your wife, do you need statistics to base an opinion that the guy is an asshole, and you need statistical support before you kick his ass?

Sorry, but as a person who grew up in Virginia, Metro DC area, don't ask me why, but people in Mass and especially Boston, seem to think that they are the center of the universe and the center of enlightenment...

You can think I am way off base in my observations, but I spent 7 yrs living there to form them.... I also remember as a freshman in college, how many people in Boston actually thought I was a member of the KKK...What did they base that on?..... NOT seeing me doing anything prejudical... It was because I was from Virginia...Down South....So that Automatically! meant to them that I must hate blacks and was automatically a member of the Klan, because WASN"T EVERYBODY down south a member of the Klan....And then they would flood the conversation with all the prejudical "acts of atrosity" that they had ever heard about.....

"my statement at the beginning of my 'fantasy'.... what kind of FANTASY DO YOU THINK SOMETHING LIKE THAT IS???...

MY response to your " I'll tell you why you started that: because YOU"RE freaking clueless and what you said has no basis in Fact!"

YOU and just a typical Bostonian, know it all pompous butthead.... from a town that has too many of them! Emphasis on POMPOUS....

From the same state that re elects the likes of Ted Kennedy every time he is up for re election...The same one that drives his car off of a bridge and then wants his cousin to claim that he was driving the car, not Teddy.....So if YOUR state senator can harm someone and then leave the scene to die.. and deny blame...Then why should we be shocked when a "citizen' of the same state goes out and does the same thing.. Harm someone, leave them to die, doesn't go for help when the person pleaded with them.. and then denies there guilt....IS THAT THE KIND OF FACTS YOU WERE LOOKING FOR???????

You don't have to 'hate' someone to think they are a dink....But then you Bostonians sort of like to act like everyone in the world hates others.. that is the sorry sad excuse you folks like to use to ACT LIKE YOU ARE MORE ENLIGHTENED than others...Play them down to give your own opinions more boyancy....Same way that you liberal clowns like to toss out the word RACIST at the drop of a hat....Attitudes that exist in your state has what has lead to a moral decay in this country....I know TOO Many natives of your state that have left because of it.. YOUR state education system is in a mess..... Yeah MessaTWOShitts is the center of enlightenment and social conscience......

I have traveled all over the US and Canada in 53 yrs of life... The place that I have to give the honors of most of their population being CLUELESS has to go to BeanTown.....YOU guys think as soon as you cross Rt 128 ( I guess I 95 nowadays) the intelligence of the world starts declining....
As soon as one crosses the Rhode Island or New Hampshire state lines... people are nowhere near as smart as YOU clowns are.. ARE THEY?????

Naw, I don't hate your types... I just think they are dinks, and usually avoid them.....

Base that in Fact Einstein! homer

Make that Double... homer homer
 
Posts: 16144 | Location: Southern Oregon USA | Registered: 04 January 2005Reply With Quote
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I don't have a dog in this hunt and fully expect to get called names for poking my nose in here but Gari, I don't think any of this is called for in a reloading forum. You are entitled to your opinion but so is everyone else, even me, regardless of what my wife says. I for one will stay away from MA. I didn't know you people up there could even own guns.
 
Posts: 151 | Location: Murfreesboro, TN | Registered: 25 January 2005Reply With Quote
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quote:


Sorry, but as a person who grew up in Virginia, Metro DC area, don't ask me why, but people in Mass and especially Boston, seem to think that they are the center of the universe and the center of enlightenment...


OK, first off, you're cheating: you originally stated that MA folks were more likely to run off after mistakenly shooting someone. Just a little different from what you're saying now, don'tcha think? Were you actually going to debate the points made, or just change the parameters every so often to suit your feeble argument?

quote:
I also remember as a freshman in college, how many people in Boston actually thought I was a member of the KKK...What did they base that on?...
[QUOTE/]

Probably based in a simple and incorrect assumption that since klansmen represent a collective negative in the intelligence department, and there you were with you mouth open and your belly rumbling and proving to all what a dolt you were, well, it's not *that* far of a stretch. By the way, I'm STILL not buying this bullshit diversionary tactic either, mentioning the klan and a criminal act of TK some 40 years ago. Get back and address the fucking *original statement* you made and back it up, that people from MA are more likely to shoot someone and then run away than in any other place.

[QUOTE]

IS THAT THE KIND OF FACTS YOU WERE LOOKING FOR???????



No. I'm still holding out for a valid response, not some more of your uninformed bullshit.

quote:


You don't have to 'hate' someone to think they are a dink....But then you Bostonians sort of like to act like everyone in the world hates others..



Blah blah blah. Still waiting...

quote:


I have traveled all over the US and Canada in 53 yrs of life...



Congrats on your resume. Since we're now apparently comparing, I've done that and been to more than 20 countries on on 4 continents, lived overseas as well, all in under 35 years. Big deal. Still waiting for one valid point out of you.

quote:


The place that I have to give the honors of most of their population being CLUELESS has to go to BeanTown.....are.. ARE THEY?????



OK, since I don't have all day, here's what you said before (I'm paraphrasing):

People from MA are more likely THAN IN ANY OTHER PLACE to have the type of people that shoot others and try to then shirk the responsibility of it. We can agree that's what you said, right? THAT'S what I took issue with. You haven't said word one about that yet. Not once. WHY IS IT YOU NOW THAT YOU'VE BACKED AWAY FROM THAT STANCE? Be a fucking man and own up that you made an asinine statement, and I'll leave this alone.


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Posts: 2897 | Location: Boston, MA | Registered: 04 January 2005Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Old Cane:
I don't have a dog in this hunt and fully expect to get called names for poking my nose in here but Gari, I don't think any of this is called for in a reloading forum.


Uh, this ain't the reloading forum. It's big game. And I'm addressing points made from a guy who took a dead man in the woods on a hunt and used it to tarnish the people of my state. I'm setting him straight. Now you see what's in this particular thread. You don't want to read, don't.

quote:
I for one will stay away from MA. I didn't know you people up there could even own guns.


Free country; you go where you like. As far as the last thing you wrote, well, I can't help you much with your ignorance, but here's a freebie: there are tons of us who not only can and do own firearms here, but with proper licensing, we can carry them concealed. I do.


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Posts: 2897 | Location: Boston, MA | Registered: 04 January 2005Reply With Quote
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above post is just what I'm talking about. Where is the moderator when you need him? Lawdog simply posted a story. Would this conversation even be taking place if the shooter was from TN or TX or MT or......no. Someone got thier feathers ruffled because someone else made a remark about their home state/city. Geez. Tell it to Osama.
 
Posts: 151 | Location: Murfreesboro, TN | Registered: 25 January 2005Reply With Quote
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And had that killing taken place in TX, MT or wherever and there'd been another jackass saying that that kind of thing happened due to the kind of people that are made in that state, you'd have the same thing. My feathers ruffled? Bet your ass. He's bashing my home state with his bullshit theories and drivel. I'm setting him straight.

Jeez, for someone who has no interest in this sort of thing, you sure stuck around to say a lot on the subject.

And I'll ignore your baiting me on the Osama thing. We both know that's going way too far.


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Posts: 2897 | Location: Boston, MA | Registered: 04 January 2005Reply With Quote
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https://forums.accuratereloading.com

uh, if my readin' is correct mister big city it IS A RELOADING FORUM! (note the url). What a jerk. I will also stay away from this forum if idiots like you are allowed to run wild posting things that children can read. You see down here in the backwoods (where we all inbreed) our children hunt, shoot and reload too and look at forums like this.

I've been to Boston and I know not all of the folks are jerks like you. Met a lot of nice folks up there but also enough like you to make me want to never go back. However you can come to TN and even pick berries on my land. Even a jerk like you would be safe. We don't kill just because we can get away with it. Please note, that comment is not directed at you, Gari. All jeks are not killers and I was not inferring such.

I give up, you can't be civil with some people and some like you will never allow others to express thier opinions without cussing them out anonymously on an open forum. I fully expect as much from people these days and that's not directed at people in any certain geographic location. Stupidity and hatred is global. There are sorry people in every town in every state in every country. I just wish you would find a better way to express yourself. Maybe back up a little and look at what's going on. Somebody made a remark, maybe in a joking way like mine about you people up there not having guns. I knwo you do. I only look stupid. You jump in an refuse to look at the what's happening here. Take easy or take it up the ass, it's up to you.

To all of you helpful folks out there, I'm going to miss this forum but not this fucking asshole, Gari.

See how it works, dickhead?
 
Posts: 151 | Location: Murfreesboro, TN | Registered: 25 January 2005Reply With Quote
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K, bye!

Oh oh, here comes the scary moderator...

Moderator, moderator! clap

You haven't been around here long, have you? Wink


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Posts: 2897 | Location: Boston, MA | Registered: 04 January 2005Reply With Quote
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Why was he using a 30-30 for bear ?
 
Posts: 116 | Location: NEW JERSEY | Registered: 12 January 2005Reply With Quote
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Why not? Most bear around here are fairly small, and they're not considered that hard to kill. A .30-30 is with good shot placement, entirely sufficient for any bear around here. Not a stopping round, but plenty enough for around New England, especially over bait.


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Posts: 2897 | Location: Boston, MA | Registered: 04 January 2005Reply With Quote
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What a shame that a Hunter - ANY Hunter would be so irresponsible as to run off and leave a person to die alone without help. The initial act is horrendous beyond belief but humans do make errors in identifying things!
That is a fact but to compound this horrendous error with another horrific act (refusing to aid his victim!) - well its just criminal! And I do not think even the folks in Vermont that WILL serve on the upcoming juries (criminal jury THEN civil jury) for this "hunter" will let him walk.
The east is not exclusively home to the nations worst Hunters or lowlifes thats for sure!
Indeed here in Montana TWO BEAR HUNTERS shot a man sitting beside a logging road smoking a cigarette a couple years ago! They shot this man with 7mm Remington Magnums thinking he was a BEAR! As I recall, but, they went to his aid once their incredible error in identification became evident (human screams as I recall!).
So I will cast no aspersions on the folks from the east regarding this incident BUT I have always wondered why the folks from one state would repeatedly elect the likes of barney frank, ted kennedy and john kerry????
I feel remorse over this incident and sadness for the victim as well as his grieving family and I hope justice prevails regarding the "hunter" who committed these unspeakable acts!
Lets all take extra time to POSITIVELY identify our intended targets as we Hunt this fall AND from now on!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy
 
Posts: 3067 | Location: South West Montana | Registered: 20 August 2002Reply With Quote
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Good post VG. Good post.


Join the NRA
 
Posts: 5543 | Registered: 09 December 2002Reply With Quote
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quote:
BUT I have always wondered why the folks from one state would repeatedly elect the likes of barney frank, ted kennedy and john kerry????


That remains a question that I and so many more have serious trouble answering. Don't think many off us here *aren't* shamed and aghast by that fact.

Good words on all points made. It's a horrifying statement about people in general, what those bags of worms did.


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Posts: 2897 | Location: Boston, MA | Registered: 04 January 2005Reply With Quote
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Well this is a very sad happening for everyone including the young children of the accused his family aswell and the deceased ETC and some of the feedback is very sad aswell. Some hunters or a lot of hunters in Quebec Canada, have major problems with drinking while hunting. Good friend got shot by his brother who was drinking and maybe a some drugs as well, he lost his arm use by 75% from a 30.06. inches more and he was toast.
I had got a friend to guide some neighbors to the south a few years back and when he returned told me he would no longer guide them any more, as he said one of them shot and when I came out of bush after chasing, he asked was he a nice one the guy replyed, I just took a sound shot. hope we can all help teaching the young and old the problems with SOUND SHOTS & ALCOHOL
 
Posts: 38 | Location: Ottawa canada | Registered: 04 April 2005Reply With Quote
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Gary;

I pointed out in my posting that NOT ALL People in Mass are the kind of slob hunters that these two clowns are...

So I will include you in the crowd that would act responsibly...

However, for my OWN personal opinion, I stand by it.. If it is not agreed with by YOU then so be it! I still have contact with enough people in and from Massachusetts to know it has not changed a whole heck of a lot for the positive and had gotten worse since I left there permanently in 1978....

As some pointed out above... This is not needed on the "reloading forum"... in typical Bostonian fashion, you immediately corrected the guy.... So fine....

If you care to spar about this, the political forum is the sparring ring around here...

We can leave it at you have your opinion and I have mine.. or if you want to argue it out, I will be more than happy to wrestle it out on the political forum....

Someone from Boston thinking I am a dink actually makes me take it as a compliment...Because I consider the source....

But as usual people from Mass seem to be orientated to point the accusational finger at everyone else in the world, but they are the most sensitive people I know of when their little Eutopia up there is criticized....AKA they can dish it out better than anyone, and but can't take it worth crap....

I don't statistical data to form an opinion based on living there for 7 yrs...As a song said" you don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows..." well maybe in Bean Town ya do....

So drop it or pick up the ball on the political forum.....

But your state is a social disaster and I don't think many people need a boat load of statistics to figure that out....Too many citizens up there seem to be social disasters also...

I live in Oregon now.. and in the area I live, we have a bunch of social disasters here also... We have hippies that have been living in communes since the 1960s....still growning dope using drugs and haven't worked a day in their life...
So if you want to sling crap at that, have at it.... YOU won't be telling me anything I don't already know...But if it makes you feel better... then Party ON!

seafire
 
Posts: 16144 | Location: Southern Oregon USA | Registered: 04 January 2005Reply With Quote
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Kamo Gari: I intended no disrespect toward you Kamo Gari, or anyone in the afflicted states regarding those poor excuses for U.S. Senators and U.S. Representatives!
I disagree with the three named cretins above but my abhorrence of them goes far beyond 2nd Amendment and many other political positions we differ on. I disagree with many dozen other politicos! But I point these three cretins out because they are of such OBVIOUS and INSULTUOUS personal morals and character that it truly PUZZLES me how they keep being re-elected???
I mean the good folks of the afflicted state could vote in other politicos of the same leanings but that at least would have some semblence of morality and conscientous demeanor - and I could live with that! But ted, john and barney are sad VERY SAD excuses for human men! Let alone Federally elected politicians.
In my opinion.
Aghast is an appropriate description of how I am sure many traditional valued folks (of both parties!) feel about these cretins I am sure.
Hoping things perk up for you Kamo Gari in the near future politics wise.
Long live Massachusetts!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy
 
Posts: 3067 | Location: South West Montana | Registered: 20 August 2002Reply With Quote
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VG's reasoning and calm, levelheadedness has me losing steam, damn it... Wink

Seafire, I took humbrage at your painting all MA folks with the same brush, a dangerous and almost always deadly tact for any argument. I am as saddened and enraged as any responsible hunter and citizen, at what these guys are accused of. And I fully admit that this is not always a bread basket type love thy neighbor state. It's still where I call home, and am damn proud to be from. Not all of us are the heartless and ill-raised heathens that you first went on about. *That* was my gripe.

Though it does occur to me now that I perhaps haven't done much to improve anyone else's opinion of us. We can certainly be a bunch of crass, arrogant and pompous fuckers. There, do we meet half way now? Smiler

Cheers, all.

KG


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Posts: 2897 | Location: Boston, MA | Registered: 04 January 2005Reply With Quote
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hijack

Watch out UW here come the Vandals!!!

(Not really related to this thread but what the hell......for the first time their is a glimmer of hope for us to actually beat a local team, and PAC-10 nontheless!)

Come Saturday...Idaho 33 Washington 25

IV


minus 300 posts from my total
(for all the times I should have just kept my mouth shut......)
 
Posts: 844 | Location: Moscow, Idaho | Registered: 24 March 2005Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Kamo Gari:
VG's reasoning and calm, levelheadedness has me losing steam, damn it... Wink

Seafire, I took humbrage at your painting all MA folks with the same brush, a dangerous and almost always deadly tact for any argument. I am as saddened and enraged as any responsible hunter and citizen, at what these guys are accused of. And I fully admit that this is not always a bread basket type love thy neighbor state. It's still where I call home, and am damn proud to be from. Not all of us are the heartless and ill-raised heathens that you first went on about. *That* was my gripe.

Though it does occur to me now that I perhaps haven't done much to improve anyone else's opinion of us. We can certainly be a bunch of crass, arrogant and pompous fuckers. There, do we meet half way now? Smiler

Cheers, all.

KG


Gary ,

We meet more than Half Way.. Welcome to the forum...

I went to college in your state, Because I went up there and loved the place...Mass is beautiful and there are a lot of good people, as I highlighted on my original post, that I did not intend to offend and that not all people are like that there.. Just too darn many....

And where I live now is nothing to write home about either....The LOVE of My life is from Arlington Mass... been in love with her for 32 yrs now....Too many things sadden me about New England....A lot of people from your state have left and now populate a large area of where I am originally from... I have had a chance to talk with some of them when I am back visiting family over the years..

An all too common answer I get when I ask them, why did they pick this part of Virginia... " Because it is like the way Massachusetts use to be like 40 yrs ago.....

Yeah Bostonians can be crass and pompous with the best of them.. But I also can tell you, once you get on their good side..... a lot of people from Mass will stand beside ya as a friend, hell or high water... That Yankee stubborness comes out on the positive....

Cheers and welcome to the forum my friend....

the biggest thing I hate about your state, is how it has been ruined! It was a dam fine state once upon a time....but alot of good places have been ruined permanently in today's world nowadays....

seafire
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Posts: 16144 | Location: Southern Oregon USA | Registered: 04 January 2005Reply With Quote
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You do not have to be in Vermont or New Hampshire to be killed by a slob!!! I can remember being scoped by other slobs while deer hunting in Oregon, and I was wearing BLAZE ORANGE!!!!!!!!! Looking up into a rifle scope from the wrong end is a scary thing. I hunkered down until the slobs moved on, then picked another stand. Now I prefer to hunt on controlled property where we know all the gunners on the acreage.

Meanwhile, string up that slob shooter!!!

LLS


 
Posts: 996 | Location: Texas | Registered: 14 October 2004Reply With Quote
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Hey Sierra;

NO lack of admission those type of Bozo's exist here also!

I often hunt where I know there will not be a lot of those types of Clowns around...I just avoid, all the hot spots.. As one gentleman put it on another thread about Kansas, PUBLIC hunting is easy to find, just follow the taillights....

I am lucky, to my west, there is tons of forests that not many people hunt...everyone seems to go east of I 5 instead of West of I 5 here in the Rogue Valley....

We are lucky not having any limit to access around here....

deer season here is 5 weeks long... so after the first weekend or so, the crowd thins out...

Now Elk season is a different story.... it lasts like 7 days at most.... and the hot spots are just ridiculous...

I tend to go right into the thickets after them, and one season not long ago, I kicked a huge bull up along Union Creek, west of Crater Lake...

I bet there was 15 plus shots at that Bull as it ran thru the brush heading down the creek bed....

After wards a bunch of guys were up on the road talking about it...all of them had taken a shot or two at it.. but then they said all they saw was horns.....

Earlier that morning.. I heard something rushing down a trail, so I brought my rifle up and was waiting to see what it was before I put my finger on the trigger... running around the corner into my cross hairs was a black lab! How many guys would have shot before they realized what it was..
2 minutes later, her comes this yuppie couple out for a Saturday morning hike....
They were really shocked when they see me with a firearm, and trying to be nervously friendly, asked me what I was doing with a firearm...

I told them that it was opening morning of Elk Season...Needless to say they were shocked, but the lady says " you people actually kill those magnificent animals???"

About that point, it was a good point to head home and get out of the crowd.. I am really surprised there are not more idiots that get shot out there, or more idiots aren't shooting someone every year....

Two guys were shot, carrying out their Elk the last two seasons, I hunted up by Crater Lake...

I wont' even go out most times on opening Weekend....

cheers
seafire
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Posts: 16144 | Location: Southern Oregon USA | Registered: 04 January 2005Reply With Quote
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Like most, I feel that this was a sad day for all. Anytime someone gets shot during a hunt it gives the antis more fuel. Also agree Kennedy and his pals belong in the compactor. As far as slob hunters and people who feel the laws only apply to them if they get caught, No State has the corner on this one. I have lived in Indiana, Louisiana, Arkansas, Oklahoma, Hunted in Texas and Montana. They all have their slobs. Have seen drunk hunter with a black calf on his hood talking about the bear he killed. Another with a dead goat talking about the spike he got that morning. Have had hunters walk right past me when on stand and comment that they were going to hunt a little further down in the bottom...on private property they had no business on. Doesn't matter what state you are from, its about the local area. Met some great folks in NW Arkansas and some crazies. Have lived in a small NE town in Arkansas where most were so stuck on themselves that you couldn't stay in the same room with them....Just my nickels worth.....
 
Posts: 253 | Location: Texas by way of NC, Indiana, Ark, LA, OKLA | Registered: 23 January 2005Reply With Quote
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And as bad as it hurts to admit it, it happens in TX as well. Used to work with a man whose younger brother was shot by another hunter while sitting in a tree. Audie was wearing a blue denim jacket, and the man that shot him, from across a fence, claimed he thought he was a turkey!!!
Thankfully, as soon as he realized what he had done, the man, a preacher, went over and helped the man he had shot. A perforated intestine in two places was as bad as it got, but an inch or so over, and my friend's brother would have been a paraplegic.
Please take care, gentlemen. Life is way too short as it is...
 
Posts: 4748 | Location: TX | Registered: 01 April 2005Reply With Quote
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I don't know anything about the character of the average person from Massachusetts but everyone I know north of Essex County calls them Massholes. Maybe its just envy.


"Experience" is the only class you take where the exam comes before the lesson.
 
Posts: 11142 | Location: Texas, USA | Registered: 22 September 2003Reply With Quote
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Idaho Vandal: Let the board moderator be incensed!
Stand back!
I have been a U.of W. Husky fan since I was a child!
Among many of the Huskies I have met, befriended and admired were Jim Owens (coach), Sonny Sixkiller, Don James (coach) and on and on! I was with them in the good and glorious years when they contended for a spot at the Rose Bowl most every year and I am no less a fan now that they have fallen on incredibly poor times!
They were 0 wins and 12 losses last year as I recall and they lost a heart breaker in their last game this year - at the last second of the game!
ALL OF THEIR PROBLEMS started with a BITCH of an affirmative action hiree for Athetic Director being put in place!!!!!!
Her P/C outlook on life and her absolute inability to do her job ABSOLUTELY DESTROYED from top to bottom one of the FINEST college athletic departments and programs ON EARTH!!!
I hope that bitch is happy!
I won't even speak the sluts name in public!
I have more respect for lawn fudge in my waffle stompers (dog shit in my shoe treads!) than I have for her!
Thank the heavens she is gone!
I do not know if the Huskies can EVER recover from the harm that liberal twit heaped on the U.of W. athletic program.
Anyway I feel better now having got that off my chest!
I am thinking your team has the edge but I am still willing to bet a nice dinner that the Huskies will win!
Let me know - when is the game by the way?
I have a real quandry anymore on who to root for as the older VarmintSon is a Husky (attending the U. of W.) and the younger VarmintSon is a Cougar (attending Washington State University) and come Thanksgiving time I will not know who to root for when the Huskies play the Cougs in their annual "Apple Bowl" game!
Let me know about the dinner bet.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy
 
Posts: 3067 | Location: South West Montana | Registered: 20 August 2002Reply With Quote
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VG: Sounds like a bet! The game is Saturday!

And just to keep the board moderator happy Big Grin, let me say I have never met anyone from Massachusetts that I liked.....(I cannot remember ever meeting anyone from Massachusetts....)

GO VANDALS!

IV


minus 300 posts from my total
(for all the times I should have just kept my mouth shut......)
 
Posts: 844 | Location: Moscow, Idaho | Registered: 24 March 2005Reply With Quote
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Well VG, the 100 year drought for the Vandals is now 101......next time your in Pullman or Moscow...dinners on me.

IV


minus 300 posts from my total
(for all the times I should have just kept my mouth shut......)
 
Posts: 844 | Location: Moscow, Idaho | Registered: 24 March 2005Reply With Quote
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