Gentlemen --
I need CURRENT advice about flying with firearms. Leaving Va. - Charlottesville, Richmond or Dulles - to Missoula and back. Packing 2 rifles with scopes in a Cabelas aluminum case. It seems that all flight arrangements choices involve 2 connections in Cinncinatti, Minneapolis, Denver, Atlanta, Salt Lake City. Potentail airlines are United, Delta, Us Airways, SkyWest, Comair and Northwest.. What do I need to know about flying with firearms these days? For example: Are some airlines friendlier toward hunters/firearms than others? Some better reps for not damaging or "losing" your guns? Do I need to get to the airport way, way, way further in advance than normally? Is the Cabelas case adequate ? ' Preciate anything you can tell me. Thanks.
-- Doc

Doc
I have never (knock on wood) had a problem flying
with my guns.Even right after 9/11 last year.I
use the same case.The gun must be unloaded,and
ammo in separate luggage.They ask you to sign a
card that the gun is unloaded and have you put that in the case.Thats it.On your way.Get to
airport @ 2 hrs ahead of flight.Good luck.
Jeff

I travel quite a bit for work and though I haven't had the opportunity to fly with firearms for the last 2 years I see people checking guns at the ticket counter all the time. 2 hours is prudent advice depending on what day of the week you are flying. Monday or Friday...2 hours is a minimum... During the rest of the week or on Sunday AM air traffic has been pretty average. I've flown into/from Richmond and Dulles and they are both fairly small airports which means the security line waits should be minimal. On a slow day you might get by with 1 hour prior to departure. Just call the ticket counter on the day you intend to fly and see what their lines are like. (I hate sitting in airports) Charlotte, of course is a hub for the east coast but a pretty modern airport. Security seems to flow well there. If I had my druthers though I'd fly from Richmond just because its the smallest airport and therefore the easiest and quickest to get in and out of.....

It looks as if your plans aren't firm yet so I would suggest you call Gracy Travel in San Antonio, TX (800) 299-8558 and talk to them...they specialize in travel arrangements for hunters and are up to speed on all the latest. I wouldn't leave home without them.

P.S. The only problem I've ever had traveling with a firearm within the US was in Washington (several years ago). I was scheduled to fly out of Baltimore when the plane had problems and they sent us to DC in a cab. When we got there I was told I couldn't check firearms...it got a little heated but it was finally decided that as I was a "Baltimore" passenger I could do it. I would avoid flying thru DC if I could.

I fly with firearms quite a bit. I have not noticed much difference after 9/11. In my experience, ammunition does not have to be in separate luggage, only in a factory container. The factory container can be in the same luggage as the firearm. Note that the amount of ammunition is limited to 5 kg per person (11 pounds).

I recommend that after you get up to the ticket counter, you state to the ticket clert that "I wish to declare unloaded firearms." Then you have fulfilled your legal responsibility to declare them. I also always tape a couple of loops around the outside of the case for extra security. I have a brother who works ground crew for a major airline. He says he has seen lots of luggage locks fail, but has never seen a piece of taped luggage come apart.

Desert Rat has good advice. After declaring your guns unloaded and all, tape the cases shut with a generous amount of good ol' duct tape. On a trip to Alaska a few years ago, the baggage gorillas smashed my gun case but the rifle remained safely inside.

I hate to seperate the ammo from the rifle because some calibers I use are wildcats. Lose the ammo and you might just as well lose the rifle.

I think only Northwest Airlines allows ammo in the same case as the gun.

To be safe, DON"T do it. Put the ammo in your luggage.

What happens if you get diverted or rerouted on an airline that does not allow the ammo together with the gun? Now you have a mess.

If separate, you are safe.

I did not know that any of them allowed ammo in the same case as the rifle, but with Terry's knowledge I am sure he is right on that one particular airline. All the others I know of specifically say in a different case. The rifle case has to be locked. Don't let the ticketing personnel tell you to put the firearm tag on the outside. We got that run around with Delta on the way to RSA this summer.

Chic

The federal regulations in the United States do not require that the ammuntion be in separate luggage. Airlines can make more restrictive rules, of course, but they risk losing customers. I used to put ammunition in separate luggage until I researched the regulations more and found that it was unnecessary. I have never had a problem on SouthWest, America West, American Airlines, United, and NorthWest, or any airline that I have flown on.

The worst that can happen is that the Airline insist that you put the Ammunition in your other case, if you have one. In the question asked, two rifle cases were being used. If only one person is traveling with the two cases, they will have to pay a fee, about $50 to $75 for the extra case. This in itself is a good argument to the airline not to have such a stupid policy. I often have long guns, ammo, and a handgun or two in a long gun case, and handguns and more ammo in a regular luggage case. I have never had a problem, and I always seem to know more about the regulations than the ticket clerks do. An assertive, friendly, and helpful attitude goes a long way.

It is a good idea to take firearms with you in the U.S. whenever it is legal to do so (it is in almost all cases, and can be structured to be legal in 99.99 percent of cases.) Under US law (the 1986 firearms owners protection act), if it is legal for you to posess firearms where you are from, and legal to posess them where you are going, then you can transport them with you when you travel. I take them with me whenever it is legal to do so.

This is what I call the innoculation process. When clerks and the general public see courteous and well dressed people routinely carrying firearms, they come to accept it as normal and reasonable, as it is. If we hide away our activities, as if they are shameful, they will eventually be made illegal.

Doc,

I have had some problems while traveling with guns. Each time it was a problem with the airline folks not understanding what their job was. The point is that you better know what the real regs. are before you get to the airport.

I had a ticket agent tell me that I couldn't check my guns through London on the way to Zambia. If we hadn't had a fax from the London gun courier I don't know what would have happened.
As it was it took us 45 minutes to check in after he called his supervisor, customs and everybody else he could think of. The sad part was that the guy was not trying to be difficult he just had no idea what to do with guns.

I have been told that customs had to look at my guns before I could go to the gate. Wrong! Another 1/2 hour wait for nothing. The best one was that we weren't allowed to board the plane because the brain surgeons on the x-ray machine thought the ammo packed together in a small Pelican case was a battery. We got on the plane only by the skin on our teeth.

These folks just don't know and you can't assume they will. I just talked to a travel agent that specializes in Africa and hunter travel and this is what she told me.

Guns in a hardsided lockable case with the rifle bolts out but in the same case(only applies to bolt guns). Your metal Cabela's case is perfect.

Ammo in seperate luggage from guns. Ammo in containers with seperate compartment for each round(ammo boxes).

Declare your ammo to ticket agent seperately from guns. Make sure to write down the agent's name that you checked in with. You may need to refer to the agent while fighting with the folks at your gate.

One final thought. I still use the Pelican case for my ammo because it is baggage handler proof, it fits in other luggage and if you have to show your ammo to someone it is all together in one place and you don't have to rummage through your duffel for it.

Good Luck,

Mark H. Young

Good point on the "innoculation process" Desert Rat. If we don't positively reinforce our rights we will be further marginalized, with more laws to follow. - Dan

Be advised that United allowes only two guns in a case, regardless of the case's capacity.

This was the cause of me throwing a caniption fit in the middle of Atlanta airport last year when the agent noticed that we had three guns in a four gun case. She made us take one out (a scoped .280) and pack it in a CARDBOARD BOX!!! Then whe charged us $70 for the extra baggage. Needless to say, I went ballistic. We were on our way to a elk/mule deer combo hunt where a zeroed scope might come in handy.

Later, in Denver, while we were at the gate waiting for our connection to Hayden, Colorado, we were called out to the tarmak to remove the rifle from cardboard box and put it back into the four gun case! We were told that federal law forbids a gun from being transported in anything other than a lockable case. Duh, we told the agent. (but he did not offer to refund our $70).

No wonder United is going bankrupt.

Alaska Airlines policy is: Weapons unloaded, max two rifles in the case(lockable), ammo CAN be in same case (in factory container OR a container designed to carry ammo). You will have to fill out the little tag and put inside the case. I flew from Anchorage to Paso Robles, CA without any problems. Coming back I flew SouthWest Airlines. The ticket counter clerk was unsure about how to deal with the weapon/case. I then explained all the steps I had taken (using Alaska Airlines policy), told her the firearm was unloaded, opened the case and showed her the little tag. Since it sounded like I knew what I was talking about, she took my word and everything went without a hitch.

This is often the case. The clerk isn't familiar with the regulations. Remember, they want you to be happy and to fly with them again!

It is important that you know enough to be assertive, friendly, and helpful. Act as if you know what you are doing. Explain to them how you have done it many times before and explain the federal regulations to them.

One time, my 16 year old daughter was flying to her grandparents unaccompanied. Just to be sure, we called the airline first to make sure that she could bring her semi-automatic shotgun with her. The airline tried to tell us that a federal regulation prohibited this. I knew this was nonsense, contacted a FAA agent and asked him if he would to talk to the airline. I then called the airline, informed them of the facts, and gave them the agent's number. My daughter was able to fly and bring her shotgun, no problems.

Sure, it took a little more effort, but what is freedom worth? How many lessons did this hour of my time teach to the airline? I thought it was well worth it.

Flew to Montana in May 2002 with Delta. I called contact number on their web site and had them add the info to my ticket info.
I flew out of Oklahoma City, Checked guns, Pulled bolt and had a string thru the barrel on the 6.5 and a loading rod down the barrel on the .54.

With Delta, ammo has to be in seperate luggage from the rifle (NO Black Powder allowed).
Highly recommend the use of duct tape after you check in and lock case.
Rifle case was unloaded with regular luggage in Kalispel. On return trip, OKC paged me to pick up rifle case.
Going back next month, flying NW out of Indianapolis and will do the same, contact airline in advance, get a contact name and have them add info to my NW flight info.
Note: Call Airport and double check how they want you to check in....Cover all bases in advance and don't forget contact names....it helps....GOOD LUCK.

I also recommend that if the people at the airline do something stupid or inconsiderate, or if they have a really stupid or inconsiderate policy, such as they only allow two rifles per case, COMPLAIN. The airlines in the U.S. are not subsidised by the government much anymore, and are always fighting for market share. We need to use this competition to our advantage. Complain loudly and bitterly at the stupidity and injustice of it all, and you WILL be heard. Very few people complain, and the airlines do listen. They want to make a profit!!

A student of mine was coming back from the east coast and was bringing a handgun with him. He went up to the ticket counter and stated the obligatory "I wish to declare an unloaded firearm." The clerk started to argue with him and said that only LAW ENFORCEMENT officers could transport firearms by plane, and then only when they were on their official duties. My student told him of the facts, that this was in checked baggage, so this did not apply, and ended up argueing with the fellow for several minutes. Eventually he said that he needed to speak to a supervisor.

The supervisor showed up, checked on the computer terminal, advised the clerk the proper procedure and got my student on his flight.

When my student got home, he wrote a nasty complaining letter to the airline. They wrote back, and included two free round trip tickets to anywhere in the US for his trouble.

We are the socialy responsible, difficult to anger, get along well with others type for the most part. This often makes us not want to be disagreeable. However, it is part of our duty to be politely disagreeable when it is called for.

Complain!!

Another problem that people have is fear of the "Authorities". In most countries and in a few states, the "Authorities have absolute discresion about who can even own a firearm. This leads firearms owners into being meek little doormats for anyone who wishes to trample on them for fear that the authorities will consider them a "troublemake" and wreak vengence upon them. This is a reasonable fear in most places, but not yet in most of the U.S.

I intend to fight this tendancy with all my might, because once it becomes ascendant here, we have lost all. It will only be a matter of time.

We have the moral high ground. We are the responsible individuals in society, and we should remind all and sundry of this every chance we get!

John....you're right about Reagan (used to be National) not being in The District but it was at National that I had the problem and I believe that if you ask 10,000 people from outside the area if it was in The District they would say yes. It wouldn't make them correct but that's the way folks think about it...plus the folks that worked there were rude enough to work in The Distict.

After you declare the unloaded firearms, tell them you want to insure them. From that point on
they get hand delivered. I have always done this any never had a problem yet, knock on wood.

[ 08-27-2002, 13:44: Message edited by: scrappy ]

The only time that I had the least bit of trouble was on a south west flight. A new clerk didn't have a clue we declare and she had a blank look on her face we explained. She then called over another clerk he came over and said oh we do this all the time just have them fill out these tags and have them put them in the bags.
She said ok another well trained clerk who well most likey have no trouble passing trough firearms now because a gun owner took the time to help her out.

Hmmm...I used to live Maryland and didn't realize that Washington National was not in the District. I took a flight there once from elsewhere, checked a suitcase with the orange tag on the outside ( for awhile in the beginning they wouldn't put them on the inside ), and had to chase down a person who stole the suitcase off the belt.

Tom