quote:

Originally posted by MrHawg:
I've said this before, but I guess you missed it. I don't care what the anti's think either, but what concerns me is what the majority of the public (most of whom are non-hunters, but they are not "anti" hunting) think. These are the people that can easily become PETA members if they see something that offends them. Also, it's against the law in Wyoming.

I don't understand what the problem is.
Don't show it to them. The best way to get them to mind their own business is to not make it there business.

Just like the fact, You don't know what the wife and I are doing tonight.
And I ain't going to tell you.

To each their own, I guess. Screw the anti's!

They are ridiculous people.



Daryl

Ok, absolutely no more live bait for fishing.

Who knows how many otherwise rational people will sudenly decide to join PETA because someone told them after watching Lord of the Rings that yes, Pamela, some people really do stick worms on hooks to catch fish and then (gasp!) they kill and eat the fish! You guys miss the boat again. People join PETA because they are fucked up. Un-fucked up people do not suddenly become fucked up because they hear some yahoo like me used a live crow to bait other crows. Don't you nimrods realize that its the dead crows that took the bait pisses off PETA, not just the one wounded one you used for a decoy? Think all that through again guys. It's the result, not the means that they intend to eliminate and placating makes them smug and you a patsy.

Where do you guys live that you have all these crows? Here in Colorado where I live, you never see a crow or raven unless there is something dead. I wish we had more of them, they would be fun to shoot at.

quote:

Originally posted by tiggertate:
Ok, absolutely no more live bait for fishing.

Who knows how many otherwise rational people will sudenly decide to join PETA because someone told them after watching Lord of the Rings that yes, Pamela, some people really do stick worms on hooks to catch fish and then (gasp!) they kill and eat the fish! You guys miss the boat again. People join PETA because they are fucked up. Un-fucked up people do not suddenly become fucked up because they hear some yahoo like me used a live crow to bait other crows. Don't you nimrods realize that its the dead crows that took the bait pisses off PETA, not just the one wounded one you used for a decoy? Think all that through again guys. It's the result, not the means that they intend to eliminate and placating makes them smug and you a patsy.

Worms are not animals. Birds are. Remember 9th grade biology class?

What's next? Gut-shoot a deer or wound an old horse so you can attract a cougar? Come-on where is your hunting SKILL?

Sometimes I'm glad they outlawed baiting in my state. It keeps most of the "Jed Clampets" out of the woods.

I can almost hear "Dueling Banjos" playing in the background...

quote:

Originally posted by Flippy:

Worms are not animals.

Since when?

Worms of the fishing kind are animals any way you slice'em.

Brent

Worms aren't animals? They sure as heck aren't vegatables. You might want to get a refund from your 9th grade biology teacher because the worms I dissected had nervous, circulatory, digestive, reproductive and excretory systems just like birds do. Then there are minnows. Or my favorite, toy poodles. Tie a big treble hook on and pitch then out along a weedbed to paddle around. Makes muskies crazy

Jeff

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Shooter:
Leaving a wounded pest on the ground to attract other pests into gun range is no more unethical than putting out poison for rats.

We are currently having a problem with thousands of crows roosting inside a nearby city. These birds are congregating in vast numbers in some very large, old trees. They are leaving unbelievable quantities of waste on the streets and sidewalks.

The city claims there is no health risk associated with this mess. I am somewhat hesitant to believe that. I am well versed in the health risks assosiated with pigeon feces and would be surprised to learn that crow waste is less septic.

By no stretch of the imagination can I find the reduction of a disease vector such as rats, mice, pigeons, and crows to be unethical by any means. The only consideration to me is: How efficient is the eradication method? How many can we possibly kill?

idaho shooter, We in singapore do avian pest control as a volunteer service. We use our wingshooting skills to help control the urban crow population.

here its anything goes and we municipally supported with ammo, permits and police co-operation. Hunting is different from pest control, I try my best to kill cleanly, but as crow get smarter tricks like decoy birds, live bait and other tactics may have to come in.

ps if you ever need a spare gun on crow shoots, i have a team here that is always willing to travel. Take care and watch out event the wounded one can bite.

tm

I think 9th was as far as Flippy got. Maybe.

Here's the other take: anyone who bird hunts with a scatter gun is going to miss. Many of those misses are actually partial hits ("wounding" for those of you who missed the 9th grade) that kill later. Does that make bird hunting unethical to someone like Flippy? I don't know and don't care. I just dislike the selective morality and subsequent inconsistency.

BTW, that guy was damn good on the banjo. Quit making fun of people born different from you. It says a lot more about you than about them.

Dogcatcher, my part of Texas has bunches of pecan orchards and the crows have become very very fond of pecans. The Texas A&M boys say one squirrel or one crow will ruin about 16 lbs of pecans each per season. Multiply that by the large flocks we have and it is a real hardship for the growers. You can tell when you are near an orchard around here because of the propane cannons going off all around you to scare them away. That and an occasional shotgun blast .

quote:

Originally posted by tiggertate:
I think 9th was as far as Flippy got. Maybe.

Here's the other take: anyone who bird hunts with a scatter gun is going to miss. Many of those misses are actually partial hits ("wounding" for those of you who missed the 9th grade) that kill later. Does that make bird hunting unethical to someone like Flippy? I don't know and don't care. I just dislike the selective morality and subsequent inconsistency.

No, it doesn't make it unethical to miss, it just means you're a poor shot.

I referred to 9th grade biology only as a reference point and to give some of YOU the benefit of the doubt.

By the way, scientists have found a few species of plantlife with very primitive nervous systems. Does that make them animals? Nope. Worms still aren't animals anyway you slice them...

BTW, I prefer mine deep fried, not sliced...

Are you stating for the record that you are a 100% wing shooter or are you just posting crap for the sake of crap?

Let me re-phrase that...is it then unethical to be a poor shot? Should the lesser skilled amoung us be banned from wing shooting? Who gets to draw the line between skilled enough or not?

quote:

Originally posted by tiggertate:
BTW, that guy was damn good on the banjo. Quit making fun of people born different from you. It says a lot more about you than about them.

I didn't say he played his banjo poorly.

BTW, you have no idea where I am from OR if I play the banjo...

I'm still curious what worms are if the are not animals? What's a minnow? How about a frog? Crickets? Toy poodles?

Jeff

Life on earth is classified in three Kingdoms; Animal, Plant and Fungi. The Kingdom of Animals starts with includes sponges, earthworms, snails, starfish, sea urchins, crabs, insects, spiders, fish, mammals, birds, reptiles, amphibians, and many more. A few things fall outside those groups like some viruses and proto-bacteria but worms are definitely part of the Animal Kingdom along with us. SOrry, SkiBum. Edited to add: Missed the poster name before I got started.

quote:

Originally posted by Flippy:By the way, scientists have found a few species of plantlife with very primitive nervous systems. Does that make them animals? Nope. Worms still aren't animals anyway you slice them...

I don't have a horse in this fight about crows but if worms are not animals, then you, and only you, know this.

Plants do not have neural systems. They have sensory systems, but neural systems with NERVE CELLS they do not have.

Nerves, however, are not the definition of animals. Worm phylogeny, however, does define them as animals (except in your very strange dictionary).

I would love to find a textbook, any textbook that says otherwise.

Brent

No, you didn't comment on his banjo playing but the smear was evident. Retarded as the banjo player and backward as Jeb Clampett. You trying to back out of that?

quote:

Originally posted by tiggertate:
No, you didn't comment on his banjo playing but the smear was evident. Retarded as the banjo player and backward as Jeb Clampett. You trying to back out of that?

I never said the banjo player was retarded, YOU DID.
As for Jed Clampett, he was somewhat ignorant, not necessarily backward.

quote:

Originally posted by tiggertate:
Ok, absolutely no more live bait for fishing.

Who knows how many otherwise rational people will sudenly decide to join PETA because someone told them after watching Lord of the Rings that yes, Pamela, some people really do stick worms on hooks to catch fish and then (gasp!) they kill and eat the fish! You guys miss the boat again. People join PETA because they are fucked up. Un-fucked up people do not suddenly become fucked up because they hear some yahoo like me used a live crow to bait other crows. Don't you nimrods realize that its the dead crows that took the bait pisses off PETA, not just the one wounded one you used for a decoy? Think all that through again guys. It's the result, not the means that they intend to eliminate and placating makes them smug and you a patsy.

Yes and no.

If you tell the general public something long enough, they will believe it. Because the general public is for the most part, easily duped. The more outrageous the better.

People don't change overnight, in action or belief. If you hammer on someone long enough, they will give in, BS or not.

Better to err on the side of caution than to play piñata with a hornet’s nest.

And most of all:

Of course Brent, worms are animals. (And plants are not)

Kingdom: Animalia
Phylum: Annelida
Class: Oligochaeta
Order: Haplotaxida
Suborder: Lumbricina
Family: Lumbricidae
Genus: Lumbricus
Species: terrestris

I was only trying to get you THINKING. Did it work? Did ANY of you ever play 20 Questions? Is it animal?, is it vegetable?, or is it mineral? were always the questions you asked first. Well, only if you wanted to win!

IMO crows are worse than pigeons (AKA "rats with wings"). I have no affinity for crows. My point is what's considered normal to some people is not necessarily normal to others. Do I care how other people feel? Not really. I am one of THE MOST POLITICALLY UN-CORRECT people you will find. However I do know when to pick a fight and who not to piss off.

My point is and remains, glorifying this type of thing can only bring grief in the long run. Like poking a badger with a short stick, it may not happen now, but it WILL happen eventually.

Do you think the ignorant women that participated in the "Million Mom March" knew the stats on gun "violence" in general. If they had known the truth or cared to learn the truth, they wouldn't have been there.

A bunch of anti-gun people, whipped these "soccer moms" into a frenzy by continuously feeding them bogus information. Did these women decide overnight to "join the fight?" Of course not. This happened over many years of dis-information.

Stirring the pot WILL NOT keep it from boiling over if you continuously feed the fire. It just takes longer.

Gun owners NEED to realize this and stop feeding the fire.

quote:

Originally posted by tiggertate:
Are you stating for the record that you are a 100% wing shooter or are you just posting crap for the sake of crap?

Let me re-phrase that...is it then unethical to be a poor shot? Should the lesser skilled amoung us be banned from wing shooting? Who gets to draw the line between skilled enough or not?

A man's got to know his limitations...

--Harry Callahan, Magnum Force

Holy Shit!

Banjo's, biology, Million mom march, Animals not animals....

You are a bunch of fuck'n pussies! Fuck the wounded crow. Pretend it is not wounded.

Maybe the fuck'n crow will survive! That's it!
I am a bad shot but I will do my best. Opps wounded anouther one. One of these days I will get this wing shooting right.



Daryl
I think some here are half way greenies!

quote:

Originally posted by Yukoner:
Holy Shit!

Banjo's, biology, Million mom march, Animals not animals....

You are a bunch of fuck'n pussies! Fuck the wounded crow. Pretend it is not wounded.

Maybe the fuck'n crow will survive! That's it!
I am a bad shot but I will do my best. Opps wounded anouther one. One of these days I will get this wing shooting right.



Daryl
I think some here are half way greenies!

Obviously I don't have to ask if you are thinking...

Tiggertate, that makes sense. I would have a field day out there with my AR.

You can get some shooting with a rifle but its frustrating because the trees are so leafy. The crows are smart enough to land in cover. Even when the leaves are down the twigs and branches are so thick they're hard to shoot through. You can get the scouts that way though because they tend to land on the very top of trees where they have a good view. Most are incomming birds shot with scatter guns from the edges of the orchard. Its also one of the last free hunts in Texas as most owners love to see you come but they're a little nervous about rifles if they don't know you well. Most orchards also have cattle, goats or both to keep the grass and brush down.

Screw the crows. Kill them all and if you feel good doing it, so be it.

You guys touched on the whole live bait for fishing thing for a little bit there, the only reason why PETA does not complain about that is because shiners, threadfin herring, worms, whatever you use is not cute, furry, feathery, or based on a disney character(I believe Nemo was a clownfish, don't count). When was the last time you saw a movie with a cute cuddly cannonball jellyfish(which is endangered by the way, and being harvested daily to extinction by the Japanese as we speak)? Yet most of those folks will still go out and eat a nice fat steak, knowing that cattle have to get whacked SOMEHOW but chose to ignore it. Just as long as the Disney characters do not get whacked, even if possibly more swift than what a slaughterhouse could do. You get the point.

PETA themselves are so wrapped up in their anger because some were beat on as a kid, traumatized when their pet Fuzzy died, need anti schizophrenia medication, or whatever that they will say anything to get people's attention. Unfortunately, as misled as they are, they do have a big voice, and get a lot of attention.

Either way, in some instances it might be a lose lose situation. Yes, crows are pests, and some folk have to blast em to save the crops, but on the other hand not killing animals humanely and swiftly isn't too cool. So yes there is a double standard. In the end, concentrating on the big task at hand is more important than whether you could save a couple of bucks by using liveys and not going out and buying a tape, or learning how to use a call.

Sometimes not advertising what you are doing keeps folk from trying to find something wrong with it.

quote:

Originally posted by gixxer:
Sometimes not advertising what you are doing keeps folk from trying to find something wrong with it.

YOU ARE CORRECT!!!

I think it is kind of like using live bait for fresh water fishing. If I did it, I sure as hell wouldn't brag about it. No thanks.

Having seen enough humans suffer. When I hunt I dont want to see the animal suffer. I want to kill it as quickly and humanely as possibly.
as for crow hunting with live bait it's illegal in my state anyway. If you think you have to use live bait. Learn some freakin hunting skills or find another doggone hobby.
By the way I don't really care what peta thinks. But I dont like to see anything suffer.
Hell especially something that can learn english, if you didnt know a crow can be taught to talk.

Perforator,
as for punching holes in a rabbit's ear every
ten minutes, or snapping a chihwawas leg your a sick bastard. By the way my FAMILY pet is a chiwawa mix and I guarantee you if you break it's leg I will break you!!!

You people preach all this about putting the animal down as quickly as possible so that it doesn't suffer or you bad mouth Mark Sullivan for letting animals suffer to induce a charge or talk to the camera or whatever he does and then you turn around and talk about using wounded bait , sounds like a bunch of HYPOCRITES to me.

And about the Blacks thing they are human beings just like us.
As a matter of FACT my girlfriend is about 3/4 Black and a 1/4 white and she is the most beautuiful girl I know. I have several good friends who are black. I have several black friends from when I was in the Army that I trusted my life to several times. A person color does not make the person, their character does.

quote:

Originally posted by slammer:
Perforator,
as for punching holes in a rabbit's ear every
ten minutes, or snapping a chihwawas leg your a sick bastard. By the way my FAMILY pet is a chiwawa mix and I guarantee you if you break it's leg I will break you!!!

Go easy on Perforator,
the chiwawa he was using was a purebred, not a mix.

quote:

And about the Blacks thing they are human beings just like us.
As a matter of FACT my girlfriend is about 3/4 Black and a 1/4 white and she is the most beautuiful girl I know. I have several good friends who are black. I have several black friends from when I was in the Army that I trusted my life to several times. A person color does not make the person, their character does.

Uh... Crows are black, is this the conection?



Daryl

I prefer a quick kill, varmint or game animal. I guess that makes me a peta guy too.

OK, I will try to maintain my general polite demeanor, but please forgive me if I do not.

For the question at hand...I personally separate animals into two general catagories, game and pests. The pests I don't care how they are gotten rid of one bit. I don't care how they are baited, cut, shot, poisoned, trapped (speaking of wounding) or otherwise disopsed of. The definition of a pest will also differ by area. In the areas I usually hunt they include, crows, stray dogs, sparrows, starlings, rabbits, ground squirrels, pigeons, coyotes, rats, mice and a few others. While I always follow the law, Kansas has become quite liberal with the catagory they call "Huntable Non-game Animals" which is a cute way to get around PETA. There are no bag limits on these animals, nor are there closed seasons. In the cases where the law is different, such as crow season and rabbit bag limits (no closed season) I will follow them, but I don't worry much about wounding one and not finding it. As for game animals, I will follow the laws as stated, and be as humane as possible, but there is an opinion overlap on deer and turkeys where I hunt. I have seen 60 acre soybean plots that looked like they were mowed down after a good deer herd went through and I have watched turkeys pull up corn plants one at a time to get the kernal at the bottom. That qualifies them both as pests because of numbers and destruction. I get damage control permits for the deer, but there is no such thing for turkeys yet. If I wound a deer and don't find it after an hour of honest looking, I don't worry too much about it. Coyotes need to eat too. But then I only hunt for one buck per year, the rest are does.

So baiting with a live crow is no more an issue to me than putting a live minnow on a hook, having that hook pierce a bigger animal's mouth, dragging that bigger fish to the boat or shore, putting it on a stringer while still alive, pull it around for a while, cutting it's head off while still very much alive and then gutting it.

Now for PETA. I don't give a flying f%&*K what PETA or it's members say. The problem we hunters and shooters have is not them, but for the most part, ourselves and our sense of fair play that we need to get over. I belong to several hunting and shooting "rights" organizations and while they are big on lobbying, which is appreaciated, they are piss poor on playing offense. They spend way too much time preaching to the members they already have than preaching to the general public that we need help from. And I do not mean the token speech or clinic. When is the last time PETA or the Humane (notice it is not Human) society wrecked a facility and there was a full page ad taken in the Wall Street Journal to expose it? We need more of a "win at all cost" attitude that our enemies have. We need to publically expose and humiliate them at every corner. Make them spend all of their money defending themselves for a change. I would gladly give up my stupid NRA magazine if the money would go for offense. When I brought it up to the NRA they were pussies about offense (except for Ted Nugent) and I contacted a lot of the board. The Humane Society is about to cost the poultry industry millions if there current petition for humane slaughter (that is not even my pun) of poultry. Chicken will no longer be the cheap meat.

OK, now I will take a deep breath.

Right on Larry!



Daryl

Well said Larry!

quote:

Perforator,
as for punching holes in a rabbit's ear every
ten minutes, or snapping a chihwawas leg your a sick bastard. By the way my FAMILY pet is a chiwawa mix and I guarantee you if you break it's leg I will break you!!!

Yawn, that was too easy Slammer, I wasn't serious about the rabbit and the dog. Good grief, double your dose and go back to bed. Your post is full of bleeding heart sentiment. Apparently you like things MIXED so you will appreciate that this forum has a diverse cast of characters and lots of tounge-in-cheek dialog.

perforator,
I apologize. I was wrong

larrys

YEP.