I didn't want to muddle up the .338 thread, but it did make me wonder, so here's my question:

Among the .375 calibers, the H&H has been described as having a 'push' rather than a 'slap' type of recoil.
How would the new .375 Ultra compare?
The .375 Weatherby?
JRS?
Ackley Improved?

I'm looking forward to whatever delicious punishment the H&H brings.

edited: I should ask this in the Big Bore section as well, I guess.

[ 08-04-2003, 06:17: Message edited by: BusMaster007 ]

I have only had experience with the H&H, so I cannot comment directly. However, there seems to be lots of difference in felt recoil between different makes and models of 375, so I am sure that would muddle the answer even more.

Now I've only shot a 375 H&H a dozen times or so, and have never fired a fast 37, but have done some shooting with the 416 rem. I can feel the difference between the H&H and the 416 for sure, the 416 is just plain faster and harder. I'd think the 375 RUM would be close to a 416 in recoil.

BusMaster007

In my experience a 375 loaded with powders like 4064 where you are using around 68 grains with 300s and 71 grains with 270s is at the very top end of a recoil braket that I would put at starting at a 30/06 with full pressure loads and 180 grainers. Those 375 loads are about what is in Winchester factory ammo and in fact was the load when 270 grain Power Points and 300 grain Silvertips were the bullets loaded.

For me, recoil that exceeds the above 375 loadings is the beginning of the next recoil bracket and as such feels like heaps more recoil than the 375.

Mike

BM007,

I shoot a Rem.700 .375Ultra and really like it. Mine has been restocked, trigger job, action work, etc. and I reload. Mild to wild is possible, but I load it down and get amazing groups off the sticks with BarnesX 270's and VV powder. Recoil has been tolerable with the heavy loads but the mild loads are no worse than my friends H&H. As long as the rifle fits, recoil should not be a problem with most any caliber and a bit of practice.

Joe

I feel the .375 H&H is easy easy easy, I am now 50 shots into my .375 H&H career and my cz 550 is just so comfrortable to shoot because it has a little heft. I am shooting 300 gr Hornady RN's at around 2500 fps and I reckon it is much more pleasant than the .416 shooting 410 gr woodleigh's at around the same speed.

The .375 H&H is just a gem of cartridge and I love my cz 550

I am now 50 shots into my .375 H&H career

Sounds as if you need a night's spotlighting to double or treble you shot count

Mike

Mike I have to share it round with my other 10 rifles so they all get a go

I also have a passion for head shooting and I really enjoy wacking grassy's in the head with my cz .22 hornet loaded with 45 gr sierra .224 bullets. I particularly like to shoot them in the back of the head as there facing away.

I have shot the H&H (Extensively ) and the 378 Weatherby. The WB definately has more poop to it, and any lengthy bench session would become uncomfortable, IMO. As for the H&H, I plink with mine on a regular basis, with pretty stout handloads, and I could (and have) shoot it all day. In my experience, I can't imagine what you would need more rifle for, just about anywhere. Now WANT, that's another matter, and I certainly wouldn't rain on anyones' parade when it comes to getting another gun . Good shootin'

DGK

The equasion is simple, the more powder a case holds the more slap your going to get, the slap comes from velocity and a case with a pronounced shoulder...therefore the 375 H&H does comes as a push in a reasonalby heavey rifle, lighten it up and the slap takes over....

I can tell little difference in my 375 and 416 Rem in custom stocks, but the new RUM and its like kicks the bejesus out of me and the blast is near terminal...

Each person persieves these things in his own manor, so none of us can speak for you....

I have noticed over the years when a person buys a rifle that the recoil is offensive to them they tend make light of it and even lie their a$$ off as to it recoil, why not they just dumped a grand off into something they can't handle and the last thing they will do is face the facts...

I hope all take heed to this statement as it would sure make for a better hunter to say I can't handle this recoil I,m going back to my old 06 but I doubt that will happen often

Let's see. 375 H&H with 2700 fps 300 grain loads, equals 53-58 ft lbs of energy, at 21 fps. You are likely only to get this kind of velocity compressing powder, like Federal High Energy loads. Depends, apparently, on the type, and amount of powder used.

300 grain at 2526 45 ft lbs, at 18 fps.

Rigby 416 400 grains at 2400 fps, 67 ft lbs @22 fps.
400 grains at 2593 81 ft lbs @24 fps.

400 @ 2615 87 ft-lbs at 25 fps(416 WBY load)

Win mag 458 300 grains at 2628 fps, 45 ftlbs @ 18 fps.
500 grains 64 ft lbs at 21 FPS

458 Lott

400 grains @2467 equals 64 ft-lbs @ 21 fps
500 grains @ 2234 = 75 ft lbs @23 fps

all of these loads are taken from our reloading pages, and the Beartooth Bullet recoil calculator to figure out the amount of recoil.

Yesterday I shot 20 rounds of full house 375 H&H loads, and, I quit at 20, when my goal was 40.

I was shooting offhand, at 50 yards, and it was all in the black, until the last few.

Suffice to say I got the impression that the rifle was kicking a bunch, and after reviewing the recoil figures, it shows that full house 375 H&H loads are in the 458 win mag, or better, range.

The 416 rigby has the potential to kick harder then any of em, if you are dumb enough to load max
loads with it.

460 WBY

500@ 2635 123 ft-lbs at 30 fps.



I think any of these rifles require muzzle brakes for extended shooting, and, keeping your retinas intact, etc.

I like Ray's idea of a detachable muzzle brake.

Didn't really answer your question. As the cases get larger, the recoil increases, if you use the capacity of the case. The advantage of the large case is that often you can find a combination
of powder and bullet, that for the same results,
results in less recoil then a smaller case, at higher pressure.

In other words, if you use the Rigby case, but don't fill it all the way up, you can get ballistics equal to the 375 H&H with less recoil.
However, the RUM, WBY, etc. based on the Rigby case, necked down to 375, defeat the purpose of the cartridge, by loading it to max pressures, resulting in maximum recoil.

Remember, the 375 H&H cases, and the 416 Rigby are designed to be LOW pressure cases, because of the African heat. That's 40,000 cups, not the 50-60 cup/psi that they are currently loaded to, by factory, and reloaders.

I think much over the 40K point, you reach a diminishing returns, where the recoil, and added velocity don't equal the gain in flat trajectory,
or impact on game.

But, that's just me...

s

s

[ 08-04-2003, 23:46: Message edited by: Socrates ]

One of the things I must remember is how many places around the WORLD these answers come from...amazing!

Great stuff, gentlemen.

375hnh: WANT is key here for me. My choices of either a Remington 700 or Browning A-Bolt II w/BOSS-CR are pretty much exactly just wanting a platform for shooting the .375 H&H that I am either familiar with or want to play with, respectively.

Ray: Whichever rifle I end up with, I'll be darn sure to LOVE it, even if it kicks my ass!
As I mentioned above, I'm pushin' it with buying this one rifle by cashing in a week's vacation next year. Kind of a compromise to keep my family intact...
If I don't buy a house soon, my Wife will NOT be happy. Priorities have been just a 'little' skewed.
See, reloading won't happen UNTIL I get the house situation resolved. My heaviest thumper will probably be my Marlin 1895 22" rifle with either the Garrett or Buffalo Bore factory loads.

Socrates: I'm sure those stats you posted are missing the "00" in the fps, right?

Now you know why I've chosen the H&H in either the 700 or A-Bolt and the reason I'm not handloading, YET.
Thanks for the excellent points of view.

The fps is the recoil speed of the rifle, given that all rifles weigh 9 pounds.

This gives you perspective on how fast all that force is coming back.

I forgot to mention that a key to recoil is the speed of the powder. The faster the powder, the more sudden the recoil. If you use a 416 rigby case, long barrel, and slow powder, you can generate ballistics at low pressure equal to the 375-458 Lott case, packed full, at high pressure, with a faster burning powder. Heavy bullets, while they create more recoil, also provide more resistance, resulting in more efficent results. In other words, the bullet holds the pressure longer, allowing more pressure, more speed, for less recoil...

Factory loads seem to have powder that burns fast, kicks like hell, and offers shitty results.
That's my general reflection on the subject, of the major ammo makers, compared to the pro reloaders, or loading your own ammunition.

All I can say is, "removeable muzzle brake"

My shoulder is still a bit sore, and, I feel a bit punchy...

s

OH!
fps = FOR POUNDING SHOULDERS.
My, oh my, I missed that altogether!

The 'removable muzzle brake' gives a major nod to the A-Bolt.

The more I talk to guys that actually shoot their heavy rifles, and handguns, the more I like reduced loads in handguns, and brakes on rifles.

My gunsmith, and another famous writer both have messed up arms from heavy recoil in handguns.

Heavy rifles are not unlike getting punched hard, though not as hard as some of the heavyweight boxers I've been up against. That said, brain damage, from your brain getting slammed against the side of your head, as your body accelerates backwards, and retinal damage are things I've either experienced, or REALLY don't want to.
I like being able to see, even if it's with glasses for reading.

Brakes on handguns? Just shoot the gun reduced loads, and save the heavy stuff for the real deal.
I sort of like this approach with rifles, as well.

Still, benching over a 375 is not a real good deal for your body. Even a 375 with full house loads can kick you real hard. Be careful, live long and prosper.

gs

After reading this thread I am sure I have the best .375, the .375 Winchester is an easier on the torso. I can plunk out 30 rounds on the bench and still manage to drive home home from the range. Its not setting any speed records at 2,100 fps but it should work great on deer and black bear inside 200 yards this year. There's only two factory offerings for this round and they are scarce in gun shops. I just picked the dies and have a bunch of brass to start rolling my own to get the most out of it.
Brian

I shoot a 375 a lot and never had any trouble. It�s a 550, but very heavy with a big scope and European type mounts. And that�s the only secret to it. In U.S.A. shooters tend to use too light guns for calibers: a 375 H& H weighing only 9 pounds is anything but enjoyable.

I agree, americans do tend towards guns that are too light and too short of barrel...I was guilty of this falicy for many years....the older I get the heavier and longer my guns get...Now thats a switch.

AS I've gotten older I find that I'm a bit more sensitive to recoil as I used to not think anything of shooting a 500-bird trap marathon and on more than one occassion did 500 16-yard on one day followed by 500 handicap targets the next and then 250 pair of doubles (500 birds) on the third but those days are long gone.

However I do still like fairly light rifles and my .375 is no exception. I find that a 300gr Nosler at 2450 fps (4000 ftlbs of ME) is very easy on my shoulder....at 2500 fps (4165 ftlbs of ME) is still comfortable....at 2550 fps (4330 ftlbs of ME) it is the Max I want to shoot and I limit myself to no more than 20 rounds if working off a bench (rarely happens). At 2600 fps (4500 ftlbs of ME) the recoil is brutal. The extra velocity just isn't worth it to me. The 2550 fps has been my main hunting load but I'm going to drop it down to 2500 fps in the future.