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swift a frame vs trophy bonded bearclaws
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<razorback>
posted
I am wanting to use my new 264 winmag on elk this season in open rifle season in colorado near meeker and can't decide on the bullet. I want the swift a frame 156grainers, but can't find where to get the bullets. the trophy's only come in 140grainers. I looked on midway, but can't find them. any help would be needed.
 
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<FarRight>
posted
I looked for ya too but could only find Swifts available up to 140 grains as well. mI've posted the link to the .264 cal bullet selection in Midway, don't know if you've been there but it might be worth a look.
I have no experience with either of those bullets but based soley on reputation alone, would say they are both qualified elk bullets given proper shot placement.
Also, I am pretty sure that the Bear Claws are available only factory loaded from Federal. I could not find mention of a .264 Win Mag load on their site. Sorry to bust your bubble.. don't know if they have loads they don't list.
Another bullet I have no experience with but sounds like you should look into is the Barnes X-bullets. At any rate they have a higher BC so should make the best out of the trajectory available from you .264... hope this helps. Really not an area I have much experience in. Good luck.
http://www.midwayusa.com/online/prodsearch.exe/CategoryPage?PromotionID=0&CategoryID=7279&CurrentCategoryID=652+***+675+***+9016+***

http://www.federalcartridge.com/andex2.html

 
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one of us
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Both are fine bullets, the Swifts have more penitration and the Bearclaws expand more violently...For elk I would go for the penitration of the Swifts..unless I could predict a broadside shot...

I still prefer the Nosler partition to the above.

------------------
Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

 
Posts: 42210 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With Quote
one of us
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I'm using 140 grain partitions in my .264 and they seem pretty accurate so far. I bought some 140 grain Barnes-X's but haven't shot them yet. I called about 140 grain Trophy Bonded bullets and they've shipped a few boxes to wholesalers. They are waiting on some paperwork to send them all out. I translate that to mean they should be available for purchase in the next few weeks.

I'm going to try all three (Trophy Bonded, Partitions and Barnes-X) and choose the most accurate. I may end up using the same bullet on pronghorn which means I may have to choose the Partitions.

 
Posts: 249 | Location: Colorado | Registered: 15 March 2002Reply With Quote
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Picture of Leo M
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I could be wrong, but I don't think the Swift is made in 156 grain, only 140 and 120.
Norma make the Oryx in 156 grain and it is a bonded bullet sold in 100 count at around the same price as 50 of the Swift's. You can get them at Graf & Sons. www.grafs.com
 
Posts: 188 | Location: New Brunswick, Canada | Registered: 25 May 2001Reply With Quote
one of us
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With the sectional density of the .264,just use partitions and be done with it alot cheaper
 
Posts: 837 | Location: wyoming | Registered: 19 February 2002Reply With Quote
<Puddle>
posted
Order them from Swift direct (785-754-3959). Before the 270 gr. AFrames were generally available I'd get mine by calling Swift.
 
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<T/Jazz>
posted
Mr. Atkinson is right on the penetration of the Swift A Frames! I have used both those bullets and the Bear Claws mushroom to much to my liking on big game.
 
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<razorback>
posted
I thought that norma offered the alaskan swift-a-frame in the 6.5X55. so i figured they might have it for components. The trophy bondeds are going to be available by speer eventually, but do you guys feel the swift penetrates better, I like expansion with penetration, so do you think a trophy bonded would shoot through an elk shoulder efficiently? all that sectional density, why not use it. my core lokts are shooting and mushrooming through some amazing shit. like five wet phone books at 250 yards. I collect them in a box of newspaper behind. at 350 they shot through a cow shoulder and two wet phone books.
 
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Razor, if your gun likes those Bear Claws, use them. They will hold up thru the shoulder of any elk.
 
Posts: 711 | Location: Michigan , USA | Registered: 03 June 2000Reply With Quote
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Try some of the Barnes X bullets in 130 and 140 Grain weights. I have had excellent performance with them on elk at any distance.Some folks have trouble with them in the accuracy department but they have alays shot under an inch or so in my old rifle.
 
Posts: 331 | Location: DeBeque, Co. | Registered: 09 August 2001Reply With Quote
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Picture of HunterJim
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Will the real Trophy Bonded bullet please stand up?

The reputation of the Trophy Bonded Bearclaw comes from those made by Jack Carter.

I have some made by Federal after they bought the TB business and design (don't know the exact details on the sale), but I have not had a chance to use them on an animal yet.

Speer is either going to make or is making bullets to some version of the TB specification. I don't know if they have made changes for mass production, but I do know a guy who works there that I can ask.

With all that as a preamble I think I would let some pioneers try the Speer version in the field first. I use Speer Grand Slams and they work for me, so I expect Speer will make a good TB design bullet, but maybe not the first time out of the chute.

I recently shot some Norma Oryx, and they did well in my .308. Norma does know how to make a 6.5mm bullet, so you could try their 156 grain Oryx as noted above.

jim dodd

------------------
"if you are to busy to
hunt, you are too busy."

 
Posts: 4166 | Location: San Diego, CA USA | Registered: 14 November 2001Reply With Quote
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Razorback,

I know your are interested in Swift or TBBC but give the Partitions look. I have killed 5 cow elk with a 264 and know of 3 big bulls killed in New Mexico with a 264, they were all killed with 140 gr Nosler Partitions. The 140 gr Nosler Part. kills like lighting, but I have never had it exit on an elk or Auodad. For this reason I think it's big brother the 338 is probably a better mouse trap.

I was going to rebarrel a 7mm Mag to 338 for this reason, but after following these forums the last few months. I think a will skip it and move directly up a 375 H&H.

As one guy always states on his posts...My two cents worth.

Saludos...Frank

 
Posts: 145 | Location: Katy, Tx | Registered: 06 February 2002Reply With Quote
<razorback>
posted
the reason I don't like partritions is they expand but don't mushroom. that contradicts itself, but when I shoot in newspaper the end result is a bullet with the backend and about the same caliber. corelokts are holding up a lot better than partritions so far.
 
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I shot a small bull at 35 yards with a 264 Win. Mag and 140 grain Barnes X bullets. It took three shots to put him down! The first shot was through both lungs, and it slowed him from a fast walk to a slower walk. The second shot was right next to the first one, and this time he stopped completely and probably would have gone down in a few seconds, but I decided to put a third one in his shoulder. That third bullet dropped him immediately...he didn't even twitch after he fell. I will say one thing...the X bullets do penetrate well, and even at high velocities they stay together. Obviously the first two bullets passed through. But the third bullet I did recover just inside the hide of the far shoulder. I weighed it later...it had only lost two or three grains, and it did not expand at all. It just had a very slight bend in it at the tip. I probably won't use them again just because I would like to see the bullet a little bigger going out than it was going in. I'll probably go with the Speer Grand Slam or the Nosler Partition next time I hunt elk.
 
Posts: 199 | Location: Rochester, Washington | Registered: 02 February 2002Reply With Quote
<razorback>
posted
washingtonhunter,
so do you recommend through the shoulders, i was thinking a quartering shot taking out the heart and a lung. not to mention the shoulder blade. this would drop him and give me a chance for a good follow up shot if needed.
 
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Wet newspaper is not animal media. The partition will mushroom and shed its weight (shed the pedals), like its made to do thru the engineering.

If I shot an elk at 35 yd.s at this velocity, I think I'd expect full and unrecoverable penetration, or total bullet failure. I take the penetration.

 
Posts: 9 | Location: usa | Registered: 13 June 2002Reply With Quote
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razorback,
Yes I think I would recommend a shoulder shot if you want to put that bull down immediately. I would only try this with a bullet like the Barnes X, Bear Claw, or Swift A-frame (especially if the shot was close.)

djd,
I agree with you...I would take the penetration over total bullet failure also. To me, the fact that the X bullet went through both shoulders of that bull at 35 yards going at the rate of approximately 3100 feet per second, and lost virtually no weight, was amazing. But seeing how those bullets performed, I would not expect any expansion whatsoever out of a Barnes X bullet under any circumstances, other than if it was shot into a concrete wall. I think I would prefer a bullet that will, like I said previously, be bigger going out than it was going in.

 
Posts: 199 | Location: Rochester, Washington | Registered: 02 February 2002Reply With Quote
<Mads>
posted
anyone know how to differ Bearclaw made from Jack Carter from the once made by Federal/speer/Blount?

The Bearclaw I load myself and I the once I've seen as components for reloades has a T in the bottom. The only one I've ver pulled form a Factory Federal Load didn't have that T!

I this the way?

Regards

Mads

 
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Picture of Dutch
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Mads, it's all a moot point, because they are all made by Federal / Speer now. HTH, Dutch.
 
Posts: 4564 | Location: Idaho Falls, ID, USA | Registered: 21 September 2000Reply With Quote
<Mads>
posted
Dutch I know- but I don't know who has made the once I have in my reloading kit!

Regards
Mads

 
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one of us
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Mads, a gal at Trophy Bond once told me that when Jack Carter sold the rights to Federal, that Federal supplied him with bullets and Trophy Bond stamped the "T" on the bottom and reboxed them.

BTW, anyone know where to get any of those Trophy Bonded belt buckels?

 
Posts: 711 | Location: Michigan , USA | Registered: 03 June 2000Reply With Quote
<JOHAN>
posted
HI

TBB can be orderd from midshouth shootersupplies. the price is 25$ for 25 bullets not very cheap.

I would have loaded my with a partition. The oryx bullets are ment to be used in lower speeds and would peel up fast in a 264win. Norma stopped using a 156 grain Swift because it wouldn't stabilise in al rifles and didn't expand well at lower velocity. I belive ti gave fairly high pressures too because of it's lenght.

/ JOHAN

 
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one of us
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HI,

I would like to know how either one of them would compare to a woodleigh or a north fork.Thanks<kev
 
Posts: 1002 | Location: ALASKA, USA | Registered: 22 May 2002Reply With Quote
<Harald>
posted
From what I have seen so far, the North Fork is superior to both the Swift A-Frame and Trophy-Bonded Bear Claw. [Big Grin] All three are good bullets.
 
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<phurley>
posted
I would agree with Harold. I have shot all extensively. The North Fork is as tough or tougher than the Swift or TBBC, but far more accurate than both. I have shot the North Fork in .30 cal, .338, .358, and .416. As well as being the most accurate Premium bullet I have ever shot, they are available. The Swifts are also available but the TBBC's tough to find. Good shooting.
 
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I just recieved the North Fork brochure in the mail. No listed bullets in .264 caliber. They start at .277.
 
Posts: 346 | Location: Las Cruces, New Mexico | Registered: 05 January 2002Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Jesse Jaymes:
I just recieved the North Fork brochure in the mail. No listed bullets in .264 caliber. They start at .277.

I actually called the guy and asked him about this and he said he has no plans to make them in .264.
 
Posts: 249 | Location: Colorado | Registered: 15 March 2002Reply With Quote
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