I am looking for a rifle to hunt game such as moose, caribou, and bear (black and griz). I expect most shots to be well under 200 meters and no shots over 250 to 300 meters. I am already fixed for deer and elk so probably caribou is covered as well. I have located a model 98 mauser that had an excellent spoterizing job done on it years ago. The barrel is mirror bright, the blue is superb, and it still has the WWII German markings on the barrel. This rifle is chambered for 8mm06 improved and is bargain priced. limited testing has produced close to 2900 fps with 200 grain bullets. Is this enough rifle? I had originally thought of a 35 whellen improved or 9.3mm06 improved, but if I can get 2500 to 2600 fps from 250 grain bullets this may be the ticket.
Robin, since you throw grizz into the mix, this doesn't seem like enough rifle for what you are contemplating. If you are fixed for Elk and everything else, then you are probably set for everything up to black bear. However, one thing to consider- since this is a 98 Mauser, it should be a simple (and inexpensive) matter to open up the bolt face to magnum dimensions and rechamber to 8MM Rem. Mag, which is a very potent round and very capable of taking the big biters with the heavier bullets available. My personal choices would lean to the .375 H&H or larger for the big bears, however. - Sheister
If you load to 2400 plus with the 250 Woodleigh in your 8mm you can kill any animal that walks, talks, breaths, or crawls.
that is one deadly load..I have a friend that farms in Tanzania who has shot several hundred Buffalo, more than several Lions, with this load in his 8x57 and a few elephants with solids..He wouldn't think of using any other gun.
I have an 8x57 and I would consider it the full equivelent of the 30-06 with a wider cross section of bullet...
I'd use that 8mm/06 on anything from gophers to grizzlies. Mountain Grizzlies really aren't "all that". The only time you might feel undergunned would be following a wounded Kodiak into a willow field. Otherwise that cartridge would never leave you feeling lacking, IMHO. But then, I don't mind packing a .270 after elk either....
Rather than packing a .375 for everything you could always borrow one for that one instance if it made you feel better.
As Sheister mentions, the Big-8 is a good option too if that tickles your fancy. It is one of my favorites.
Canuck
Posts: 7123 | Location: The Rock (southern V.I.) | Registered: 27 February 2001
Well you did mention Grizzly. How about a winchester model 70 classic stainless in 338 ultra mag. Check the ballistics youll be impressed. And if your not then sheck out the 375 ultra mag. but the 338 ultra should do fine . I have a 338 win mag and it will handel any bear that walks but the ultra starts off with 500 more foot pounds of energy.
Posts: 869 | Location: Bellerose,NY USA | Registered: 27 July 2001
can the receiver on a mauser 98 be opened up enough to load 8mm rem mag shells? I'm not sure but I don't think so. If it is possible, you're grinding away a bunch of metal.
Posts: 2037 | Location: frametown west virginia usa | Registered: 14 October 2001
Thanks to all, I will stick with this one and see what I can get with the 250 Woodleighs. Now I can jsutify another larger caliber for Africa in a few years:-)
I hunt alot w/ my .338-06 & would feel confident hunting "grizz" w/ it & a 250gr bullet. You aren't far off w/ your 8-06. Check your balistics on the 200gr load though, 2900fps sounds pretty hot. I only get 2750fps from the excellent 210gr NP.
Posts: 7752 | Location: kalif.,usa | Registered: 08 March 2001
why not consider a 9,3X62? It is one hell of a cartridge for most game. Otto Bock designed it for Jerry's who had migrated to the Dark continent as an all around cartridge. Think about it. I got a ZG 47 in 8X64S that will be rebarreled to 9,3X62.
Your 8mm will do fine. I shoot two chamberings I like if you want to step up a bit you could consider. The .340 Wby with a 225 gr. bullet at 3150 fps of a .358 STA with a 280 gr. bullet at 3000 fps. Good shooting.
I have an 8/06imp(Gibbs) and I'm sure you will be happy with the performance if you use good bullets.I like the Nosler Partition 200 and Barnes X 250.I haven't shot Woodleigh's.Mark
Posts: 109 | Location: Sask.Ca | Registered: 27 February 2001
3006 or the 308,or the 300 win.mag..all 3 the most efficient .30 cals around,course i prefer the 3006,sure they are everywhere,thats got to be a sign of something..you can get factory ammo for all of them everywhere that sells ammo or guns..the 3006 and 308 can be purchased for in most cases less than $10 bucks a box..a few years back all i wanted was the super duper killing rifle,but i started to add up all the positives and negatives,cant go wrong with the '06 or the 308..i just recently got rid of my 7mm STW,mainly because it was costly to shoot(even though i reloaded),waste of powder,to damn loud(with or without muzzle break)and the bullets blew up on about everything i shot at around here,course i shot nosler bt's..i'm getting ready to get back to a rifle i can shoot alot and get to know what it will do...i used to hunt cutovers down east,to where shots could be in the "holy shit" category,used my rem.700 3006 with 165gr.nosler ballistic tips with the case overflowing with IMR4350 powder,never felt undergunned or outranged to say the least...anyways,thats my 2 cents worth...
quote:Originally posted by Robin: This rifle is chambered for 8mm06 improved and is bargain priced. limited testing has produced close to 2900 fps with 200 grain bullets. Is this enough rifle
Absolutely yes. If this rifle lights your fire, then go for it!
Posts: 5883 | Location: People's Republic of Maryland | Registered: 11 March 2001
Keep the rifle as it is. It sounds great. the 8mm mag is indead a great cartrige but it will not come close to fitting in the rifle. the 8mm-06 will do nicely
I fail to see why you're trying to make a budget-type rifle work from hunts that are anything but bargain hunts. I mean, shoot... you're talking moose, elk, grizzly, then you're trying to convince yourself that some sort of cobbled-up, converted military sporter that's chambered for a marginal cartridge is a viable world-class-use hunting rifle. This sounds like an exercise in reverse economy to me....
Why not spend a little more and get something like a Model 70 Winchester Super Grade in .338 Winchester Magnum, or something else along those lines?
quote:Originally posted by Robin: I am looking for a rifle to hunt game such as moose, caribou, and bear (black and griz).
Sounds adequate to me. I know guys who live in the arctic who use .22 magnum on caribou, and your '06 bullet will do for the rest at anything over 2500 fps. And "Amen" to Stans post right below this.
Bullet construction is crucial on griz. Use a penetrator.
[This message has been edited by BBBruce (edited 11-19-2001).]
Posts: 36231 | Location: Laughing so hard I can barely type. | Registered: 21 April 2001
Thanks to all for the input. For Allen, I am a retired Army NCO and on a somewhat limited budget. While I can't afford an expensive trip to Alaska I can afford to catch hops, and stay in guest quarters most of the time for cheap money. I also can't aford to spend over a grand for a rifle, but I can spend some time searching for old mausers, and a little money to get them fixed up. My old cobbled together swede that I found as a butchered rust bucket shoots .66 inches at 100 yards after spending a total of $400 on it. Aren't just about all the bolt actions in use today variations on the Mauser theme? Cheers
"Aren't just about all the bolt actions in use today variations on the Mauser theme?"
Not really. Mauser actions require more machining steps than most modern actions. Most modern actions are push feed with the extractor and ejector contained within the bolt head. I prefer the Mauser type action with controlled feed. Ruger's model 77 Mark II's are controlled feed and very similar to the Mauser 98, except in lacking the third locking lug.
there is no comparison to new actions. The mauser action is the best made and to make a comparible action would cost a small fortune. Look at the new mauser sporters they are nearly exact replicas and often go for $2,000.
The Mauser action is the action everything else is derived from....you can't find a better action that has been around as long....that 8mm-06 should fill the bill for anything you need to do. I shoot a .338-06 and it is certainly adequate for anything on this continent. It will roll over an elk real well. Your 8mm-06 is similar and will get similar results. You have a "poor mans magnum at an affordable price" Why move up to a .338 ultramag or .375 H&H when your current gun can handle it. All you get for the upgrade is more expensive ammo, more muzzle blast, and the stock has to be surgically removed from your shoulder after 20 rounds. They damn well aren't fun to put a lot of practice rounds through. You got it made in the shade as it is.Best of luck with your hunting. regards swede
Stay with the 8mm-06 Improved. The ballistics you quoted are magnum-class and will destroy anything within 300 yds. True, for brush-busting kodiaks you might want something more potent, like a marlin 1895 in 45-70 with a peep sight shooting Garrett's 540 grn Hammerhead which will smack a grizzly harder and penetrate farther than any 375, but that wouldn't do too well on the elk that is 250 meters across a ravine. You want a well-rounded load that will reach out there. Personally, I'd put a 30-06 barrel on it and go hunting. There is nothing in North America that cannot be put down effectively with a 30-06. The 8mm-06 improved, especially with the load you mentioned, will shoot flat enough for any large game at 300 meters, and pack plenty of punch out to that range, too. Use a scope that goes down low, a quality 2-7 would probably be perfect, and mount it low and properly such that the scope lines up with your eye naturally. You'll be surprised how fast you can get a shot off, even in close quarters, with the scope turned down to 2. If you need more than 7x to shoot out to 300 meters, then I suggest that you get your eyes examined. Don't worry about being on the short side for power, you are already packing more horsepower than you'll probably ever see any use for.
------------------ Let the strucken deer go weep The hart ungalled play For some must watch while some must sleep Thus runs the world away -Hamlet
Speer list the 8mm rem mag with 200gr bullets at 2990fps as the minimum for big bears. It would appear therefore that they would think you are in the ballpark as you folks say.
I gotirritated when I read some of the responses. You ask a series of pertinant questions and have to put up with answers trashing the action, suggesting calibres not even mentioned and worse suggesting calibres which require a whole bunch of expensive work to only beat the current one by 90fps!
I think you have the right attitude, stick to your guns and good hunting!
Posts: 2258 | Location: Bristol, England | Registered: 24 April 2001
I had a Mauser 98 rechambered to 8mm-06 Improved many years ago and used P.O. Ackley's data to brew top-end loads with the 200-grain bullets. There is absolutely no question that this was a magnum-level rifle capable of stomping North American game, AND most other game species one might afford to hunt.
My mistake came in attempting to use the original military stock. The German stock is wretchedly shaped and transmitted recoil was savagely punishing.
If your primary interest lies in hunting, and you are a reloader, the 8mm-06 Improved can be loaded up or down to exactly what you need for each North American species you hunt. Just remember, it is in the magnum- or near-magnum class and requires some handling practice in order to make the most of it. Otherwise, it probably is ideal for the one-rifle hunter....
Postscript: The above rifle conversion was done in 1966 while I lived in Arizona (Douglas); after I worked with it a while, I sold it still in that area. I wonder if you've ended up with the same rifle, properly stocked???
To everyone I have learned a lot from all the posts. I wish to thank you all for the information. Paladin I sent you an e-mail regarding your post script. Cheers
