Bad genetics...

And snow in Texas!!!

Then you'd REALLY hate Pennsylvania.

Yup....



We've both got work to do!

quote:

Originally posted by Vanderhoef:
Yup....



We've both got work to do!

Problem is..........I can't do the work that needs done. Since Dr. Gary Alt's work of genius.....the Pennsylvania antler restriction regs.......a deer's gotta have 4 points on one side to be legal. Don't matter if he's a 4.5 year old spike or a 7.5 year old 6-
pointer. Those are the bucks we have to save for breeding stock.

Frankly, when they started the antler restriction, I lost my interest in driving back to my relatives place near Dubois to deer hunt in Pa. It was difficult enough to let hundreds of does pass by and wait for a buck. Then it had to be a 4 point or better. I always thought you would have been better to just roll the doe season into the buck only season like we do in Ohio.

quote:

Originally posted by Strut10:

quote:

Originally posted by Vanderhoef:
Yup....



We've both got work to do!

Problem is..........I can't do the work that needs done. Since Dr. Gary Alt's work of genius.....the Pennsylvania antler restriction regs.......a deer's gotta have 4 points on one side to be legal. Don't matter if he's a 4.5 year old spike or a 7.5 year old 6-
pointer. Those are the bucks we have to save for breeding stock.

Ahh yes...the infinite wisdom of ARs!! Unfortunately, we've got 'em in a few counties here in TX too. As for me, I'm fortunate to have a Managed Lands Deer Permit (MLD) that allows for very effective management of our Whitetail population.

So, basically I have no excuse for feeding a deer like the one above . I'm heading out Weds though, so maybe....

Regards,
Scott

All but the first one would qualify as antlerless here. The problem with most places that antler restriction are the rule is, most people there won't shoot does, for what ever reason. I have hunted the PA doe season several times, and the residents thought I was insane. I haven't shot a buck for about nine years now here at home. The does are better eating and more plentiful. As a result, the antler situation here is getting more impressive by the year. There is an eight pointer on the property I hunt that I have been watching the last couple years. Maybe next year...

Strut,

None of those deer appear to be of bad genes to me. They are just 1.5yo with broken antlers.

Antler restrictions work great, they have dramatically increased the age class and antler size of every area I know of that implement them. One of the areas I primarily hunt produces 1.5yo bucks exactly as your pics. Those same bucks are dandy when they hit 5.5+

the problem with ARs in most areas is they aren't strict enough IMO. The most successful areas I know of do ARs along the lines of minimum spread, minimum main beam length, and minimum points. Usually have to meet two of the 3. These areas produce few culls contrary to what many believe.

As another mentioned, doe harvest are a large piece of the puzzle. Keep the doe in check, let the bucks grow to maturity, and you will see a dramatic change for the better. Not many people are willing to wait for the process to work.

Have a Good One,

Reloader

quote:

Originally posted by Reloader:
Strut,

None of those deer appear to be of bad genes to me. They are just 1.5yo with broken antlers

Have a Good One,

Reloader

No doubt those are all culls!

the texas buck is older than 1.5 but
i'd wipe the milk off the lips
of the rest of them before sending
them out to play .
does eat grub that grow bucks
even up the ratio and reduce the
overall population,to what the
habitat will carry and you will grow bucks.
if you want more deer than that,
suplemental feeding.

the data from the Kerr WMA in central Texas says that only 25% of bucks will have forked antlers during the worst conditions (drought, limited food supply) and that only 25% of bucks will have spikes during the best conditions (wet year, lots of food). Whether or not the other 50% will have forked antlers in their first year is entirely dependent on weather conditions.

Furthermore, when your buck/doe ratios are out of whack, you end up with a lot of does being bred late, resulting in late fawns, which also end up being spikes their first year in most cases.

Anyway, that's why I don't shoot spikes . . . or yearlings of any sort (and definitely NOT a yearling that meets antler restrictions!).

Now that said, I will say that I think that antler restrictions are NOT the BEST way to handle controlling a deer harvest - in a perfect world, folks would learn how to estimate the age of deer on the hoof and shoot only mature deer BOTH as trophies and as CULLS . . . however, AR is far easier for the average joe hunter to follow (or be trusted to follow) than estimating the age of a buck on the hoof.

Troy

Troy hit the nail on the head.

That first buck is a cull, but the rest are just young'uns.....