I have a elk hunt booked out of Heron the second week of November.

Looking for advice on boots and clothing, guide says buy Schnee's hunter II boots. These are leather uppers with rubber bottoms or basically a pac boot. All the other pac boots I have worn kept my feet warm but were not for walking great distance. As I am unfamiliar with the terrain I need some help here. What based on personal expierence do you feel would be the best. I have looked at the Meindl boots from Cabela's, I like the PERFEKT and the CANADA boot.

This hunt I feel will require quite a bit of walking.

Second he says buy wool a light pair and a heavy pair of shirts and pants. I live in North Carolina and will never wear wool again unless I go back up north again. I have looked at the Revolution Fleece outerwear from Cabela's. This appears to be something I could use more easily on other hunts. I have called and spoken with Brent our guide and he says we will start out in either trucks or horses from the main lodge in the mornings and then it sounds like spot and stalk. He said to dress in layers, knowing this I can't see the need for wool.

Also does anybody know what is normal for snowfall in this area for November and can provide any other tips or suggestions for this hunt.

I have looked at his trophy pictures and the terrain appears to be steep and heavily forested with a lot of the pics showing snow.

If there is deep snow would gaiters be worth it.

We are 90 days from leaving and need some help. We are driving out and pulling a trailer so space will not be a problem.

Last thing, How do you bring this much meat back. There will be three of us going and we all can kill one elk and one whitetail. I have read of guys making cool boxes from plywood and building foam panels.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions,

Wayne

Montana
I have hunted 12 times for black bear near where you are going to be. I hunted out of Troy, Libby and Eureka. 2 were horseback and the other 10 were self done backpack hunts.

The reason he wants you to wear wool is because it is warm when wet, either from snow or rain.I recommend you follow his advise. I even wear wool here in Texas during deer season, sometimes it does get cold here.
I like Filson wool whipcord pants, butWoolrich or Codet are good too. You can also get some good deals on wool pants at Army/Navy/Surplus stores. I like Pendleton wool shorts. They come in seveal different thickneses.
If you have some good goretex boots with at least one pair insulated you should be ok. If you show up and there is a lot of snow you can get pacs there.
A lot of outfitters recommend Schnees because thay are not terribly expensive and don't leak, at least that is what I have been told.
I have an old pair of Sorrells that I always take but only have worn them in 3rd season in Colorado, or still hunting here in TX when it is really cold.

Get a couple pair of fingerless wool gloves, try to find the ones with the little rubber bumps on the palm and finger pieces.

The big cooler [180 qt I think] will almost hold an entire elk if you bone it out.
If you cannot find one of them, they are popular with deep sea fishermen, you should be able to find some of the 160 quart ones. Take 2 each hunter.

I use my big Gott 180 quarter EVERYTIME I go to the deer lease. It keeps ice for ever and I always have plenty of room.

I would definately take some gaiters,
Outdoor Research have worked good for me. Even if it does not snow, if there is rain or just heavy dew, they keep the bottom of you pants dry. They are also good in mud.
They will work in NC too.

What guns and bullets ya'll taking?

Though I have never hunted Elk in Montana, I will say definitely go with the wool. I live in the Blue Ridge here in South Carolina and when hunting in the cold rain, sleet, or snow, wool proves it's worth. Other than that I can't give much more help; except to say make your shots count and have a wonderful hunting experience

I am hunting in MT this fall also.My outfitter told me to bring wool also. I switched back to wool a couple years ago, it just works good here in MI. We have pretty shitty weather in the fall and winter.

I am taking my Win 70 in 338 and using 225gr A-frames.

My dad is taking an H&K 30.06 with either 200gr A-frame or 220 something. We are working that out right now.

The other guy I am not sure he has a Browning A-bolt in 280 rem and a 30.06 in Rem. 7400. told him not to bring that one. Last trip we were on he brought and it broke on the firing range. Glad I had brought an extra one of mine.

Thanks for all the advice so far. If anyone else want to chime in here, I want to hear it. I like to be as prepared as possible and do not like having gear problems hold me back.

Wayne

I lived, worked and played a good deal of my life in that part of the world. It would be a rare November that you could avoid getting wet and cold in the brush in that country. If it is not falling from the sky, the snow brush and tree limbs will paint you with water or snow as you move around. One pair of any kind of pants by Wednesday or Thursday are going to be wet. I have used many of the super duper revolutionary pants and some of them work better than others, but nothing over an extended period of time in the wet brush has worked as well as wool for me.

If you are really hung-up on the new age synthetic stuff, I would still suggest that you consider an inexpensive wool back-up plan. Buy a couple of pairs of good old German military surplus wool pants (multi pocketed and a fairly heavy mill) and let them air out in the barn to get rid of the moth ball smell. You should buy two waist sizes larger than your dress pants and, depending on your build, you may have to buy a pair of guy lines (suspenders). If the wools have a noisy plastic knee insert, you can cut it out from inside of the pant legs. I have not had this problem, but several friends had to do a little surgery to eliminate this annoyance. Now to the new age adder, buy several weights of polypropylene long johns to wear under your wools. With two pairs of wools, you can rotate them daily leaving a pair in camp to dry out a little for the next day use. The different weights of polypropylenes will let you adjust for freezing rain or damn blue bird cold and avoid the wooly scratching. CP.

I have personally never frozen as much as I did on my first elk hunt in MT, in the early part of November. I remember sitting on a hill side a whole day, since we had made our way all the way up there, we figured we might as well wait for a potential elk to walk by... Boy, was that cold! The next year, the temperature can be quite different, but you have to plan for the worst.

If your outfitter says to bring wool, then bring wool. It will stay warm when wet, and it is as quiet as anything. If you don't want to spend a fortune, get some surplus gear. Some of that is as good as multi-100-$ modern stuff - at least when it comes to warmth.

Here is an example, these are Swedish surplus pants from Cabelas. I would not be the least surprised if you could find them cheaper elsewhere, but make sure you get 1st class (i.e. heavy) material. You'll need two pairs, in case they get wet, and you need to dry them out. As mentioned above, buy them large enough to comfortably wear heavy underwear, and shirts etc tucked in.

Cabela's New Swedish Surplus Wool Pants.

I personally like wearing these type of wool pants with a pair of lycra running shorts below. That way, I don't chafe even if I have to walk a lot with the coarse pants, they are not exactly tight fitting....

I have tried Schnee boots, and they were without a doubt the most luxurious pacs I have ever owned. They had long leather uppers perfect for riding. Sadly, I had bought mine with Thinsulate liners, and the boots were just not warm enough. The store offered me to try them out with a pair of wool liners, but since I did not have the time to try them out, I accepted the magnanimous offer of returning the (used) boots for a full refund. If you can find a liner warm enough for you, they sure are luxurious boots, though. For use in snow, make sure you get the "Air Bob" sole - just the best sole for snow!

About walking with pacs: yes, I also prefer walking with a tighter fitting boot. But if it really gets cold, nothing will beat a pair of pacs in terms of keeping your feet warm - in particular if you need to be stationary for a while. Make sure you dress as the outfitter suggests, otherwise you might find your hunt ruined from being miserable in the cold. Bring a pair of regular climbing/hunting boots, should there be no snow on the ground.

Yes, if there is snow, a pair of gaiters (or high boots) are always an advantage.

- mike

Schnees pacs are by far the best pac boot for that type of hunting. They fit tighter around your ankle to give you the support you will need. I have had Sorels in the past, and although they will keep your feet warm they do not give you any support. Wool clothing is tough, breathable, and warm. The temps at that time can be incredibly cold. I am hunting Northern WY this year and will be dressing in layers of under armour cold gear, wool socks wool pants wool shirt, wool jacket, fleece vest, wool hat. I keep a windproof fleece jacket in my day pack so that if it isnt too cold or if I am overheating I can take off my vest and wool jacket and put on the lighter fleece. Sweating profusely will freeze you in a stiff wind. I will be hunting at altitudes between 7000 to 10000 feet.
You owe it to yourself to invest in the right gear for the Montana hunt. Once you factor in all your other expenses some boots and wool clothes wont amount too much.
But if you are freezing to death on a $4000.00 guided elk hunt because you decided not to listen to the guide, what did you save?

Having spent 30+ years hunting big game in MT I have seen temps from 70+ degrees to -30 degrees in that time of November. The key here is to be prepared for anything. Bring cloths that you can layer and cover a wide range of temps. It is NOT uncommon to see 50 or 60 degree temp changes from the low to the high in a day and I have seen the temp change more than that in a day or two. With all that said I have to admit that I have noticed a distinct warming of the temps during the hunting season over the last 10 or 15 years so I would bet that the first week of November will swing more to the warm side. I usually use fleece for about 80% of my hunting and only wear wool when it gets real cold. Remeber that you are coming from a warmer area and what is comforable for me may not be for you.

As far as getting the meat back. An average elk that has been processed (boned out, cut and wrapped) is going to be around 175 to 250 pounds and take up a space of about 4'X 4'X 4' (4 foot cubed). A deer is about 1/3 of that. Another way to figure is that a processed elk will not quite fit into one of the jumbo 120 quart coolers but will usually fit into a 160 quart cooler.

Hope this helps a little bit.

To keep your feet warm and cozy in packs try this: Neophrene ski shocks by Gator(brand name). These are solid neophrene, some brands have little holes so they can breath, this defeats the whole purpose of the sock, keeping your wool socks and pac-boot liners DRY. You can have the best socks and greatest wool liners in the world and as your feet sweat, which they will whether or not you are hiking to a ridgeline at 8K ft. or just sitting in camp the socks and liners will loose all their insulation value and you will have cold, damp feet.

I wear insulated, Gore-Tex Danner Elk Hunters if I'm hiking and there is no rain, temps from 30 to about 5. Work fine for me without the neophrene socks as they "breath" enough via the Gore-Tex. When it get really cold, 5 to -30, or I'll be sitting I prefer an older pair of Irish Setter Pacs. I don't think they make them anymore unfortunately as they are very ridged for climbing and hiking and very warm. With these boots the neophrene socks go on first followed by very heavy wool-thermax blend socks, these boots have an aluminized lining on the thermax inter-boot (liner) the outer boot is also insulated and the lower section is hard plastic with heavy leather uppers. Never had cold feet with this system even in a tree stand at -30.

Clothing for hunting in Montana? Plan for temps as high as 60 or as low as -30 and you'll be fine.

I used to live in Noxon then moved to T-falls before moving east of the mountains. You will be huntin' in snow up to your ass in some places. The best piece of equipement to puchase is a pair of stalking foot 3-5 mm neoprene chest waders. Put em' on and then slide them into your walkin boots. Make sure you wear at least one size bigger than you normally wear. The boots I wear are Sorrels. You can walk/sit in the wet snow and stay completely dry and comfortable. All I wear underneath for pants is the military polypro with bdu pants. Nothing more. I used to wear wool and still like it but wool is heavy when wet and it sucks when you have to wait around sitting in wet snow watching those draws. The last elk I wacked over there was in 1999 when I moved. I was huntin' the Prospect Cr. area. I used a 35 Remington handloaded with 200g Hornady RN's. A nicen broke tine 5x4 raghorn shot at 80 yds. in the timber. Most of your shots in this country will be less than 200 yards. Good luck....

The waders are an interesting idea. I ran into a guy a few years back that used Gore-Tex waders that had seen their last days as waders. He cut part of the neophrene booty off so they would slip over his pack boots. He claimed that for rainy wet weather or wet snow they were as close to perfect as you could get. I've saved a pair of Baily's I wore out guiding but I've never had a chance to try the idea out.

I couldn't imagine walking in neoprene waders farther than about 500 yards on dry flat ground, let alone in the hills in azz deep snow... You'd be worn out before you left the truck. Leave the waders for duck hunting and fishing when you do nothing but stand around... Plus you'd sweat your azz off in them and then you'll be twice as cold.

You really don't have much for optoins when it comes to hunting the snow. IMO Cotton is out, so that leaves you wool or... synthetics like fleece... or that noisy... suade crap. just wait till you walk through a pacth of 'beggers lice' with your fleece PJ bottoms on and you'll wish you weren't wearing them. LOL Honestly I think fleece is about as good as you can get to compare to wool as far as warmth and also being warm when wet. I like to have a little heaft to my cloths and not have to worry about ripping them off when I hang up on a stump or something under the snow. So no fleece pj bottoms for me. Wool will cut the wind quite a bit better. IMO

My elk hunting gear consists of a light pair of either Woolrich pants or light mil issue wool pants with a pair of gators. I wear slick long underwear like Under Armor or another couple pair that I have that are similar to biker shorts. I find it makes walking much nicer since you're pants aren't grabbing your legs on each step and when you climb over stuff...

If it gets really wet/melting snow/rain. I have a goretex coat and pants I can slip into. As far as upper body. If I'm walking I usually wear a polypro shirt, under a light weight fleece shirt, under a wool sweater. Thats pretty much it. If its really cold, I'll toss on a fleece vest. I take a neck gator or silk scarf if its rather frosty out for when I stop and sit. I also have my goretext jacket strapped to my pack at all times for a final shell if it gets really windy. I rearely ever get cold even in sub zero temps in this set up. If you're walking any at all you won't get cold. Even if you walk a little and sit and glass, etc.

I second the fingerless wool gloves... I love them, especially coupled with a good mitten for when you sit.

As far as boots. The only time I wear pack boots when when I ride into camp on horses or we're mostly hunting off them. The just don't offer the support I like for hiking. They are warm and usually super dry though. Schnees does make a fantastic pack and so does White's. Its a toss up for me. Most of my hunts my boots usually are either non insulated, or 400grams of thinsulate all leather lubed and water proofed. The new goretex boots out today are leaps and bounds above the ones made just 10 years ago IMO, I actually think they'll keep your feet dryer than a pair of rubber bottom packs in most conditions. My feet usally get pretty sweaty when walking in packs as opposed to a good pair of leather boots as well. But if its wet sloggy snow... I don't think you can beat the packs especially if its like that for a couple days in a row. Seems like once the leather boots get water loged you're hosed for a day or so until they dry out. I find 400gr of insulation to be about perfect for walking and sitting. Get some good wool blend socks and you'll be good to go. Take an extra pair along and swap em out if your feet start to get a little cold.

You never know what the conditions will be on your hunt, pack for the worst, but bring lighter gear too. I've hunted in long sleve T-shirts during Thanksgiving week, and I've also worn everthing I owned in September in MT...

One thing I always have in my pack is a couple light weight trash bags. If you're going to sit in the snow just toss one on the ground and sit on that. It won't keep your but warm, but will keep it dry...

I hope you have a great hunt!

Montana: Just a couple days ago I heard on the radio that in one 24 hour period at a town not far from Heron (Libby, Montana) the temperature went from a low of 29 degrees to a high (new record!) of 101 degrees!
Thats a 72 degree swing in less than 24 hours.
Be prepared - bring wool. Sell it at a gunshow when you are done.
I have Hunted up that a way many times for Spring Bear, Fall Bear, Varmints, Mule Deer and Whitetailed Deer.
You could very well get rain that time of year or melting snow and the cover is thick in many places and you will get soaked on occassion. The wool will keep you warm and the wind somewhat at bay even though wet.
Despite what some may allude to the Schnee Pacs offer splendid comfort, traction and support - LEGIONS of Elk Hunters and Elk Hunting Guides over DECADES have proven this.
Don't just take my word for that.
I have and use "gators" when trekking through snow and soggy conditions. They help keep you warmer, moisture out and ones boots in great condition longer. The fleece outer gators are what I recommend for still Hunting situations.
No one else seems to have driven long distances with meat - I have!
It is troublesome at times.
I say bone out the meat and wrap it in large, high quality, muslin bags. Put it in large coolers and put dry ice in it (on top) with a buffer of styrofoam or a folded towel between the dry ice and the top layer of meat. Chill the meat just before you leave then pack it. In mid November you will have smooth sailing temperature wise - til you get south of Wyomings southern border. I am guessing you will be driving 3 maybe 4 days.
No problem!
Replenish the dry ice as needed. The 3 to 4 days of additional aging will actually do your meat good!
You will need more than one "large" cooler per Elk - maybe three big ones or two huge ones!
The snows are VERY unpredictable that time of year up that a way!
I was Hunting Whitetails just a tad north of where you will be, back in mid-November of 1995. I decided to leave when the snow got up to my nipples! And I am 6' 3" tall!
It took us half a day to drive (shovel!) 250 yards to a county road (4 wheel driving with all four chained!).
Most mid Decembers there is tracking snow up there and unfortunately that is often crunchy (from thawing and freezing over and over).
Best of luck to you up NW Montana way!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Varmint Guy
Good Post and good advice, except...
Do not sell your wool, you might need it again.
And while the dry ice will work, it is sometimes hard to find. Regular ice will work just fine. Just drain the water and re ice as necessary.
I have brought meet back to Texas from Colorado, Montana, and Idaho several times.

Another handy item to take with you in this country is one of those collapsable bow saws. Some of that crap and underbrush is real thick in there. Finally, get ya one of those plastic tobaggins @6-8 ft. long. I took the rope off and put on some heavier 3/8" stuff. Drill some more holes in the sides and use rope(not bungee cords) to hold your critter down. Neoprene chest waders can't be beat and they are comfortable to walk in. They are a good investment for 65 bucks that will keep you warm and dry. My unit in Afghanistan wore this combination at 8000 ft. with no problems except for the jagged rocks and crawlin' around put some wear and tear on them. Yes, there are plenty of streams up in this country to cross and you will have no worries. I wear military issue polypro against my skin. You can buy the stuff online or at surplus stores. Underarmor works ok but in my opinion it is hard to beat polypro and bdu's underneath neoprene.