I haven't received a response from Barnes yet. I'll copy/paste their reply asap.

I was asked to post my letter to Barnes, so here it is:

Dear Sirs:

As you are aware, USO has won their lawsuit against AZ game and fish. You may also be aware that this has caused an enormous degree of distress to the Arizona resident hunters. I reside in Ohio but I do apply to hunt in Arizona. Due to the nature of this lawsuit and outcome I can assure you that there will be a cascade of negative discussions towards USO. It is also a probablility that other states may endure the same suit which may be a financial stress to each game and fish dept. In essence, it's a big mess.

I understand that you are a sponsor of USO. If this is true, I will have to discontinue using your products in all of my centerfire rifles and muzzleloaders. Just a personal decision. I hate to do it because the new Triple Shock is an outstanding performer and I like it so much I stocked my reloading bench with them.

For me personally, this is probably the biggest hunting news in a long time and there's no telling what the future ramifications will be due to the outcome of this case. I understand that Primos and Realtree have both withdrawn support of USO, however, I do not know if this is true or not. I also do not know if you are indeed a sponsor/supporter of USO. If you are, do you intend to stand by them or withdraw your support/sponsorship?

Please respond at your ealiest convenience.

Their email is: email@barnesbullets.com

Apparently one doesnt need to reside in the west to understand the downside of this debacle.

Your sacrifice is appreciated Doc.

thanks Doc! you have my support! Ill pass this on to other hunters.

Guys I believe in states rights and I think local hunters should get most of the tags. But when the drawing is 9 to 1 with NR helping pay to support the federal land thats being hunted I don't see this being right or fare. In Alabama we have federal land and everyone is welcome to hunt it. You don't need a guide and can buy a license at wal-mart for $77.50.

I grew up in Alabama. I still hunt there too.

I also believe I should be able to hunt in any state I choose, or at least to have a decent chance at drawing, but with this situation, I had to make a choice on which way I'd apply my support.

What I see happening is this case will result in a certain level of animosity towards non-resident hunters everywhere. I have friends in a lot of states. I don't want to be viewed as "the bad guy" just because I draw a tag somewhere.

So, I made a choice. Even though the outcome of this suit benefits me indirectly to hunt the west, I see those guys out there as my hunting bretheren. And there's enough termoil in the hunting world with anti-hunters, etc. I hate to see 'hunters against hunters.' I try to envision the bigger picture.

It's bad enough we have bowhunters that shoot traditional bows calling compound guys names because they don't hunt 'the right way.' Those that tote a crossbow have been cursed by longbow hunters a time or two. AND GOD FORBID YOU ACTUALLY CARRY A RIFLE some say, that's just down right not very sporting is it!?

I'm a hunter. And I use whatever means legal in that state that suits my fancy to take game. Arizona residents are pissed, and the rest of those guys out there seem to be getting festered too. So, as is the situation sitting in my lap, I walk with those guys. If I'm meant to draw a tag somewhere, it will happen.

So whats the answer? Everyone just hunt in their own state? Just what do these AZ guys do that don't draw a tag in AZ? From the car tags I've seen in Wyoming and Colorado some of them go there and buy over the counter tags. Where would they hunt if these states applied the same laws as AZ does? Just for the record I've never hunted AZ and don't have plans to any time soon.

Doc,



Good letter.



Mark,

Quote:

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Just what do these AZ guys do that don't draw a tag in AZ? ,

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Not a hell of a lot.



I was blanked on ALL permits in 2004 and 2005 for AZ -- my own state. My hunting anywhere in the U.S. was nonexistent during those years. Instead, I went to Africa (plains game) and BC (bear) in 2004, and to New Zealand (stag, tahr, chamois) this past June. And now I'm in hock up to my eyeballs, which will limit any out of state -- or country --hunting for a long time. So...with the current state of affairs here in AZ, it looks like my hunting is about over since my home state is the only place I can afford to buy a permit and pay for my own do-it-myself hunt in the future. Guess it's time to sell the guns. -TONY

There is no 'answer' to this situation...only debatable feelings on the issue, voiced opinions, some of which will be heated. I'm a peaceful guy with arguable opinions. I simply take the stand of sympathizing for the western residents because I know the court case outcome has made them angry. This will in no way change the fact that I will continue to apply for elk, mulie, antelope, etc. I have to hunt there because that's where the game is. Although I will say this, I did also apply for the nonres. elk tag in Kentucky too. Still waiting for that result in late Aug.

We will all have mixed emotions regarding this problem. My answer is to simply continue doing what I've been doing:

apply to each state in which I wish to hunt and wait for the outcome.

I thought you could buy deer tags in AZ over the counter too, say, for the January archery hunt. I plan on putting in for desert piggies and getting a deer tag OTC if the plan works.

Doc-perhaps it's been posted elsewhere but I'd be interested to hear what Barnes had to say to you.

Thanks for your time

"GET TO THE HILL"

Dogz

I lived in AZ for 8-years and only elk hunted once, so I don't have any issues with the 10-90 thing. The non-residents do help pay for federal land, but nothing else. The people of the state more than the share and should get the majority. Just my opinion. I also think if you have lots of money to pay a guide great, but the majority can not afford it and if does not remain affordable than the elites won't be able to keep the sport to the level it is today. We will have golf courses instead. Just my opinion!

So you disapprove of USO's right to win redress of its grievances through the courts, or that they won?

CPS

CPS- USO's lawsuit in Arizona was heard by only 2 courts. The first court ruled against USO. The second court, 9th circut located in California, ruled for USO. Arizona appealed to the Supreme Court which decided not to hear the case. So USO is won once and lost once. That is not a clean sweep.

Also, the 9th Circut court is the same one that ruled the words "Under God" are unconstitutional. They are creating laws from the bench, not through the political process.

I wonder how guys in Alabama or Texas would feel about judges in San Francisco, California changing their state's systems?

I surely feel sorry for the AZ residents who can't even hunt their own State, but...... I also feel that USO has opened up a can of worms here that can cause some REAL problems throughout the West.

Montana allows a limited number of tags to non residents. One of the FEW perks we have out here for Sportsman is being able to buy that elk or deer tag over the counter for a reasonable fee. We surely live in a sportsmans paradise with tremendous scenery but it's tough to eat scenery. The residents put up with high taxes, with little in return for those taxes. Foremost we put up with terrible wages. Generally the 47th or 48th LOWEST per Capita wages in the Country. We PAY to live here.

I hope that the ability to buy an over the counter tag doesn't go away due to the USO ruling. It's a shame that hunting has become a big business but like most endeavors it all boils down to money,profits,shareholders,etc. The various Hunting Organizations , Buckmasters TV series and others are the same, most are in it for the profits.


FN in MT

Frank,

USO has already targeted the bighorn sheep permit allocations in your state. -TONY

The 9th Circus is by far the most communistic, anti-constitutional, anti-freedom court in the country. Based in San Fransico this is no great suprise. They are being very consistant in their denigning of state rights and the mandating of the federal governments (liberal buraucrates) will.

Tony. You could hit New Mexico for one of their OTC tags. I will say this though. Don't pick on area 22. My hunting partner and I didn't see a damn thing during the entire hunt. Did have a mountain lion walk, not run, through camp and saw lots of coyotes.
Talking to some of the locals, they said predation by the lions and coyotes, plus a lot of poaching by people out of work have done a number on the deer population in that area.
Never saw a game warden either. All the sign we did see was either very old, or if fresh, was on posted property.
I'm planning on taking a look around some of the other areas once out monsoon comes to an end and the roads can dry out. Looks like NM got a lot more rain than we did, more's the pity. I might even look area 22 over again as this time, there might be water. It was good looking country that should have had lots of game on it. Saw quite a few remains of predator kills though.
I'll just have to see what I can find. Guess it's better than not hunting at all. I can at least scrounge up the $200 and change for a tag and license. Don't know if that could be an option for you, but at least it's a thought.
Paul B.

I hunted red deer in Scotland in 2002; shot 4 of them for $1600. Good deal and quite fun. Hunting in the UK is not that expensive, is free ranging, and quite a good deal.

Paul, Yup, that's certainly an option, or maybe M16 is going to invite me down to TX so I can cull a 12-point buck off his ranch. Fat chance.



Another,



Funny you mention the UK, as I had thought about that, too. Don't need any stags but might think about some smaller deer if the price is right. Plus, I haven't been to Europe yet. But there's still the airfare for ME to consider. -TONY

Paul and Tony,

Some of the best Muley hunting in Ut. is right on your border. I wish I could offer a better soloution for you though. I didnt even tune in yesterday, too depressing. Whatever comes about in the future, I sincerly hope you dont just give up and sell your guns and that you find a reasonable soloution.


Doc,

Barnes hasnt replied, have they.. Same here, apparently us little fish arent that important to them..

Yeah, I know about that hunting in southern UT, but isn't it mostly a draw area for NRs? Or do they still sell OTC tags up to the seaosn?



Now, I was just thinking how ironic in that I have hunted more than half the states in the country and at least 10 Canadian provinces, Mexico, NZ and Africa, but NEVER in UT, which is less than six hours away! Duh!



By the way, I got a phone call yesterday from the PR agency for Barnes Bullets. He wanted me to bring him up to speed on what's going on. So I did. -TONY