Please give me your opinions on the better binoculars available. I've sold my Steiner Predators (which I liked a lot) and have saved up for an upgrade. I've been looking at the new Zeiss Victory Series 10x40. I've found them for $915. The Leicas also interest me. What do you think?

Longbob....you really do need to hold them in your hands and look thru them with your own eyeballs....I did and chose the Swarovski 8x42 SLCs.....I haven't looked at the new Swarovski ELs yet but the SLCs seem to be on sale a lot.

I love the Leicas, to me they seem a superior prodict to the Zeiss.

Check you Leica deaaler to see if he carries Minox as well. They make an outstanding set of binoculars for under $500. I would actually prefer these to the Zeiss.

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www.rifleshooter.com

Bill, that is a great warthog on your page! The EL's were the ones that I had my eye on originally. For some reason, I am under the impression that the Leica's and Zeiss' are less trouble prone. Especially the Leica's. That could be absolute BS, but for some it is in the back of my mind.

DB I will take your advice to look through them all, but I would like to hear some field experience also. They may look good in the store, but there may be some surprises that I want to be aware of. If possible.

Pentax DCF WP 8x42, about $400 from the various discounters.

Longbob, thanks for the nice words about the Warthog.

I don't know how trouble prone the Lecia's or Zeiss will be. I do own 4 Zeiss riflescopes and absolutely love them, they have never let me down.

I own two sets of Steiner Predators. The full size and compact. I like the full siz, but would can the compact if they were not a gift from my girlfriend.

All this talk about new binoculars, I think I am going to go out and buy a set of Minox now!

I have two pairs of Minox and they are great glass for the money. The 8x32 model compares very well with my Swarovski 8x32. The 10x42 is very clear also. I picked both pairs up used for around $250 each in as new condition. Both guys were trading up and needed to move theirs.

Shawn

Swarovski 7X50 SLCs or the 8x32 SLCs. The 7x50s are bigger but optically the best magnification/lens combo you can get for hunting. The ELs are AWSOME...but the cheapest I have seen is around $1100.

I've owned my Swarovski binos for 15 and 6 years respectively. Only problem is I broke the eyeshade on the 8-32s. Called US customer service and they sent me a replacement and a spare free of charge overnighted to my door!

I'd take a close look at (Zeiss,Swarovski and Leica) no puN intended. To me they are alL great glass the Swarovski's just happen to work best with my eyes. I have the 7x42 SLc's and the 15x56's as well. Super optics and a super company.
I'll tell you a quick story I was in Wyo for the fall guiding for deer. My 7's after years of use and borderline abuse needed some help fropm the Dr's at Swarovski. I called their 1-800 number and got to talk with a person and not a computer, what a concept eh!? The gal said to overnight em and they would overnight em back to me so I could get back to using them. Well I mailed them out of Sundance Wyo on a Monday and they got them back to me by that Friday. No charge for the overnight shipping or for the clean up work they had to do on them. I would say they have great service and them some so please do yourself a favor and take a really close look at Swarovski.

"GET TO THE HILL"

Dog

Longbob,
I have not used Minox so I can't say anything about them.

Ziess are O.K, Swarovski are great, and Lieca are the best. That is how I and most hunting guides I know rate bino's. Good bino's are a lifetime investment. If you hunt alot, step out and buy the best, you will never regret it.
Ziess are not top of the line. An outfitter that I work for lost 2 horses with their bino's in the saddle bags after he had been mauled by a grizzly. We found the saddles( where wolves caught up with the horses) two years later. The Ziess had to be sent back to the factory, they were not useable. The Lieca's once cleand off were perfect.

8X32 are good all round hunting bino's.
10X32-40 are good for mountian hunting. (sheep, caribou, grizzly,etc.)

Daryl

I use Leicas for the most part. I have them in 8X32, 8X42, and 10X50. I also own a set of Zeiss 15X60s for special purposes, and a pair of B&L 8X42s.

The Elites are excellent, rugged, very ergonomic, and (like Leica) completely waterproof. Even though they are a world-class binocular and can be had for a bit less that Leica, they are not quite as brilliant optically.

I had a chance to test a pair of Swarovski 10X42 ELs and a set of Leica 8X42s side-by-side (outdoors) at a local gunstore recently. Despite all of the media attention, hype, and novel ergonomics, the Swarovski ELs were NOT as crisp, clear, and bright as the Leicas, nor did they have as wide a field of view. They're very good alright, but they're not THAT great, and they do not live up to their advanced billing in my estimate.

For my money, and everything considered, I'll still go with Leica based upon my binocular experiences so far.

I haven't gotten my hands on a set of Nikon Venturers yet, but they are supposed to be fantastic as well, and a true world-class binocular.

AD

Allen and the others, thanks for the responses. It is interesting to me about the Leica comments. Allen had made some of the same ones previously and they caught my eye. Not to take away from the others, but the Leica fans seem to be hard core users and supporters. The mention of the Nikon Venturers is also interesting. Most comparisons put them at the top, but I am not sure about their durability as compared to the Leicas. The bird watchers really like the Venturers.

Longbob,
I went through this selection drill starting over two years ago. I started with an open mind and handled several different brands, sizes, and types. In addition to clarity, how they felt in the hands and fit my eyes/glasses is what I went on. For ME, I settled on the 8x32 Leicas. I've got about six weeks field experience with them now on three trips to Africa and am quite pleased with them.

Keep an open mind and go with what feelsright in your hands and around your neck.

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"shoot 'em if you got 'em!"

Another vote here for the Leicas. I have an even dozen Swarovski scopes and have nothing but nice things to say about the company and its products, but when it comes to Binos its Leicas for now. I had Swarovski SLC 8X30's and loved them until I got the Leica 10X40's. I got tired of the size/weight of the 10X42's so I got a pair of Leica 8X32's and they are perfection for me. We've had a running discussion/comparison around our deer camp the past couple of months as a hunting friend has a set of the Swarovski 10x ELs. The vote is 6 to 2 in favor of the Leica 10X42's over the ELs. The ELs are a terrific glass but they just don't fit my hand. As someone else said try them all and find the one that is right for YOU. It really is some of the best money you will spend. FWIW, the best second teir binos are probably Minox followed by Pentax, Swift, B&L, good Nikons, and Steiner in no particular order.

Guys:

I mean no offense, but I'm hoping you can help me understand something. I've been using the same pair of 8X Simmons binoculars for over 10 years. I got them free with two cases of Quaker State oil, I think. They've served my purposes greatly, and I don't think I'd feel guilty if I accidentally ran them over with my truck. I have looked through some top shelf binocs, and while they were impressive, I never thought they were worth the money. I guess that's why I drive a Ford when I could afford a Cadillac. How does someone justify the need for $1000.00 worth of binoculars? I would rather invest it in another rifle or shotgun, or handgun, or vault. Help me understand. Thanks.

I replaced a pair of Swarovski 10x42 SLC with a pair of Leica 7x42. I am very happy with the Leicas and feel they are a step up from the SLCs.

If you want a durable pair of binoculars buy the Leicas. I hunted zebra in the mountains of Namibia with a guide who had a pair of Leica 10x42. This area is very hard on binoculars because they get banged around as you climb to the top of the kopies(rock piles) to glass for game. After seven seasons of abuse the PH's Leicas looked quite worn. When the PH asked to look through my new 7x42s I jumped at the chance to inspect his sorry old beat up 10x42s. Despite many scratches on the objective lenses from having sand wiped away with a shirt tail and the countless scrapes and marks on the rubber armor his 10x42s were extremely clear. This PH guides hunters about 14 weeks a year. Seeing that his Leicas were still going strong after seven seasons in this harsh environment I would wager they would last a lifetime in the hands of most any "normal" hunter.

Jason

When you go to the store to look at the binocs go just before it gets dark and step outside to evaluate them. I have all the respect in the world for Leica products but maybe I should have said I wear glasses and maybe that's why they didn't feel good to me.

Longbob...
Another one for the Leica.
Have an 8 x 42, bought it 2 years ago, and it have seen extencive and rough use here on the wet and windblown Norwegian north west coast. It stays clear and crisp whatewer rain, snow or fog, and I�m very satisfied with it. Reccomend it highly.

Arild

Big R,
THE most important piece of hunting gear you own is a great pair of binoculars. Why a great pair instead of an el-cheapo? Spend 15 minutes looking through your Simmons...Yes 15 minutes! Its difficult isn't it? That's b/c the glass isn't that great. The optics are off a little and the coatings are sub-par. A quick glance and it doesn't matter. But try spending some real time looking thru em and your eyes will fatigue and you will simply not use em. A great pair of binos are very good to your eyes. Your eyes aren't asked to make the optical correction for the glass. Subsequently you will use them more, ergo, you WILL see more game.
The dependability and durability of top shelf binos goes without saying. But the real difference lies in how much you will WANT to use the binos in the field and how much more effective you will become.
You don't think much about binos now because you don't consider them a real aid to your hunting. They are just kind of something you think you should have. I've said it before...If I could only afford a rifle and good scope, or an iron sighted rifle and great binos, I'd take the bino/rifle combo any day. I can shoot iron sights quite well out to 350 yards or so. But in terms of spotting game without binos--I honestly believe I double the amount of game I see with binos.
I had the same problems (belief in the value of a good set of binos) with my Cavalry scouts in the Army. Their Steiners were just another hunk of equipment to lug around. A little training quickly changed my soldier's mind and drmatically increased his effectiveness!

You have enough votes to make a decision I think so here is some more good advice. When you buy your binoc's do it through one of the New York discount camera shops. Advantages are: much lower price and no tax (as long as you do not live in NY.) Disadvantages are the rude order takers.

Example: I bought a pair of Swarovski's 10x42 3 years ago and paid $860 including shipping! You can not beat it. I think it was from "Camera Corner" they advertise in SCI. If you need the number, e-mail me and I will get it for you.

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Wendell Reich
Hunter's Quest International

Another vote for Leica.
Regards, Matt.

Btw, the best deals to be had on Leica are from Chris at SWFA and their Samplelist. You can find it at www.samplelist.com . The binoculars are in new condition and come with the full USA lifetime warranty and 3 year passport warranty. As in you run over them with your truck send the piece with the serial number back and you get a new binocular. Can't beat it.

FWIW, I would recommend you stay away from the New York City optics hucksters. I got burned on a pair of Zeiss Night Owls that Focus Camera assured me had the USA warranty. Even have the scuzball salesman on tape. They did not, of course, have the USA warranty. So should anything happen I can try to ship them back to Germany instead of to the Zeiss USA group in my home state. Don't outsmart yourself like I did;-). Chris at SWFA is a hunter who caters to hunters. You won't go wrong dealing with him. That you can take to the bank.

[This message has been edited by Matt in Virginia (edited 11-06-2001).]

I have an old pair of Leupold gold rings from 10 yrs. ago and I'm satisfied with them...I also have an old pair of Stieners and they work...

I have looked at and even used the Leicas and Swarvorskis (SP?) a little, and I liked the Leicas the best..They will be my next pair unless I find a great deal on the Swaroskis, then I could live with them..

I believe most hunters tend to use too much power in binoculars for hunting...I like the 7x35 and 8x30's best, but my Leupolds are 10x40 and I make do with them...

While on the subject, the way most Americans carry binoculars is the biggest mistake in the hunting fields I see today, around the neck or wrapped up in a bino buddy.....Try using a 1" webbing strap and carry them over the shoulder and under the arm, much like a bandolier of ammo...save you a world of sore neck and shoulders and they slide up to position very neatly, don't flop around and are protected from falls, brush or whatever.....Most Africans use this carry and it is the only way to go.

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

I'm leaning toward the 8x42 Leicas, but I will look through them all before I decide. Ray, I use a Vero Vellini bino strap as you describe. It is more comfortable and stops the flop.

I had a set of Nikon's and decided that I wanted a better set. I looked at a set of Kahles 8x30, they were pretty good. I had my mind set on them. While there I asked to take a look at the Swarovski 8x30 SLC. My wife was with me and spoke up, "why don't you get the Swarovski, I"ll give you half". Well I'm really happy she did, best and last binocular I'll ever need to buy. If I were you, I would bite the bullet and get the best you can, weather it be Swarovski, Leica, or Zeiss. You won't be sorry.

Many people will say that you need to get a pair of the "bigger" binocs. I'm of the opposite camp in that my big pair of Nikons generally stays in the truck but my compact pair of Leicas is with me wherever I go. I think those little suckers are 10x25 but the coolest part, for eyeglass wearers, is the eye cup. Instead of a cheap piece of rubber that is designed to be rolled over for eyeglass wearers, they have a permanent hard rubber eye cup that slides in and out QUICKLY so it's ideal for use with both eyeglasses and with the naked eye. Beyond that the weight is so light that it's very easy to have them along at all times or else thrown in a pocket. They run about $350-400 US and I think the optical quality is extremely good when considering the fact they are compacts. My only gripe is the design of the neck strap. It's a fairly thin piece of nylon rope that despite the low weight can dig into one's neck. I've contemplated numerous times cutting it off and tying it to a proper neck strap. Hunting primarily in cold weather typically allows me to put the neck strap over an outer garment.

Anyway, another option. Like I said, that light weight makes it more likely that you'll have them along. That extra weight you can then add to the rifle.

Reed

I recently traded in a pair of Swarovski 10X42 SLC's on a pair of 10X42 EL's. Playing with both pairs (my old SLC's and the EL's) and a pair of Leica's at the store, I really couldn't tell the difference.

(sidebar: The store I bought them from is located in a very small town in the heart of the Rocky Mt's. They have a bench outside their door, from which you can watch sheep, elk and deer cavorting on the mountains just outside of town. You cant find a better place to sample optics!!).

One of the main selling features of the EL's is the ergonomics. I am not sure what that means, but they sure fit my hands and eye's real good. I really did prefer the fit and feel of the EL's over the SLC's, the Leica's and the Zeiss I have tried. They fit my large mitts and neanderthal brow a little nicer than the others. So I got a second mortgage on the trailer and went for it.

I have nothing negative to say about the Leica's or the Zeiss, or any other quality brand for that matter. What it really comes down to, is which brand feels better against your face and in your hands. The optics are really tough to differentiate. If I had to base my decision solely on optical quality and price, I would have stuck with my SLC's.

FWIW, Canuck

"My wife was with me and spoke up, "why don't you get the Swarovski, I"ll give you half". Well I'm really happy she did, best and last binocular I'll ever need to buy."

JD, now that is way unfair! I'm gonna sneak in which ever one I buy. I can't believe that you would post that. That's rubbing it in. Does she have a sister?

Jim Rockstad of Rockstad Outfitters (or Optics or something like that---see the Gun List) likes to tell prospective buyers about the basket of fogged and internally damaged Swarovski's he has in his shop and the fact that he has no similar collection of Leicas. He sells grey market Leicas and rates them as no. 1.

I've owned a Swarovski SLC WB 8 x 32 and a pair of 10 x 42s as well as a Leica 12 x 50. I've spent long hours comparing the three for clarity and brightness and cannot tell much difference (if any---and adjusting for different exit pupil diameters in a subjective way). However the Leicas just seem to exude greater quality and general soundness. It may have to do with the fact that they are a little heavier than the Swarovskis. I do prefer a die cast magnesium body (Leica) over polycarbonate (Swarovski) just on principle. Regardless, the Leicas just seem to have an air of quality about them that is superior to the Swarovskis. I realize that is quite subjective.

FWIW Gray's Sporting Journal just choose Nikon's high end glass as the best and several birding organizations also rated the Nikon first. On principle I hate to purchase anything the Birders go for because they are almost always an anti-hunting crowd (I am generalizing I know---I like to watch birds to, especially just before I shoot them!).

Another reason I will no longer purchase Swarovskis (which has nothing to do with their function) is the essentially anti-hunting (clearly anti-trophy hunting) and radically environmentalist mission statement on their website (I think it also appears in some of their literature). It reads like an environmentalist, anti-human manifesto written by someone the likes of Paul Ehrlich. I realize this statement exists probably just to appease the birding/enviro crowd (who surely condemn Swarovski for selling hunting optics), but I want Swarovski to know that equivocation will require them to pay a price from our side. I want to support the optics companies that stand tall. I just hope Leica never wavers 'cause then I'll have to give up my favorite glass!!

Jordan

Jordan, I think you're right on just about every count. I was on a hunt one time with a professional from the sports optics industry who pushed Swarovski for some very transparent reasons, and he denounced every other make vociferously, especially (no surprise) Leica. He commented that Leica was always out "waving flags". My reply was, "The only person I see standing out there waving flags is you."

I've done business with Jim Rockstad for a very long time. I buy all of my binoculars from him these days. He's the most honest, straight-up, fair businessman in the retail optics profession that I've ever know, and he offers some great buys on European optics.

AD

Allen, now you tell me! I went to a local superstore to check out the Binos and it all came together. The Leicas won out because of their fit to my face/eyes, clarity, price, reputation..... I've already ordered them and would have liked to spoke to Jim first if I had known about him. By the way, the only ones that I could get were the BN's. Any preference of the BA's over the BN's or vice versa?

Jordan,
Good post.

Longbob,
SWFA has a new in box Leica Ultra BA 8x42 with both full USA and passport warranty for $729.95.

The difference between the BA and the BN is largely the ability to focus on objects that are very close in with finer focus on the BN. It was essentially a nod to the birders and has little advantage to a hunter. It has even been suggested that the BA is better than the BN for a hunter because you don't have as many revolutions to obtain focus with the binocular. There was also some change in the lense coatings, however, the coating technology has been used on the BA models for the last several years from what I'm told and hence isn't and issue. You can't beat the deal and he has one pair left. Pleny of 50mms but the 42s tend to go quickly.

Regards, Matt.

[This message has been edited by Matt in Virginia (edited 11-09-2001).]

Cabellas has Zeiss 8x32 and 10x40 (I believe these are the correct magnifications) on sale. If I remember the 8x was about $600 and the 10x $700.

Matt, thanks for the heads up. If I order from SWFA, they have to charge me sales tax. I was able to get the BN's for about the same price. It is amazing (to my eyes) how much clearer the Leicas are than the Swarovski SLC's and the Zeiss. No offence to the others that prefer those brands, this is how it appears to my eyes. Man, do the Leicas feel solid. They just exude quality. With all of these comments, I'll probably lose the damn things.

An update. I received my Leicas. Wow oh wow! Now one of the best parts. They come with a so so binocular strap. What ever type of binocular fits you best, you must get a Vero Vellini bino strap. They magically take half the weight away. The weight is distributed over much more of your shoulders and the elasticity removes most all of the shock.