The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting American Big Game Hunting Leupold vs. ZeissGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| Leupold vs. Zeiss | Login/Join |
| new member |
I am new to the more precise shooting game. I have hunted for years, and like most only got out my rifle during dear season. I now am getting more interested in the shooting sports, and am going to have a rifle built soon. I plan to build a 6.5-284 on a Remington 700 long action (I already have a doner rifle)with a Hart barrel and McMillan stock. I am planning to mount a 4.5-14 X 40mm/44mm scope in either Leupold VariX3 or Zeiss Conquest. The Leupold has an Adjustable Objective while the Zeiss has a side parallax adjustment (which I like). Does anyone have any expierience with these scopes, and which would you preferr? Any input on the entire rig will be appreciated -- ie. will the long action be a positive or a problem? What twist rate? Etc? The gun will be used for Targets, Deer hunting, varmint shooting, and anything else I can do with it. It will not, however, be my only rifle. | ||
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| new member |
Where is a good place to purchase either scope? I live near Stillwater, Oklahoma (home of the OSU Cowboys, but not far from the OU Sooners) | |||
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| one of us |
You might check out these folks for the Leupold. http://www.shootersoasis.com/Catalog.htm I've dealt with them several times and they are top notch. | |||
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| <Delta Hunter> |
I've owned both of the scopes you mentioned. I still own the Zeiss Conquest 4.5-14X44, but have sold the Leupold 4.5-14x40. I prefer the Zeiss for a few reasons. First and foremost, I think the optics are a little better. The Zeiss provides a sharper and clearer image in my opinion. Even the crosshairs seem to be more crisp. Also, I like the side focus as opposed to the adjustable objective. It has the quick focus eye piece and finger adjustable turret knobs, which I prefer as well. I can't make any kind of judgement yet on the Zeiss's long term durability. It hasn't been out long enough. However, I haven't experienced any problems with either of mine. I also have the 3-9X40 which is mounted on my .300 Weatherby. It has endured 2 hunting seasons and about 600 rounds of ammunition and hasn't given me any problems whatsoever. [ 12-19-2002, 22:57: Message edited by: Delta Hunter ] | ||
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| one of us |
Check out SWFA, there located in Texas and they have the best prices on all their optics that I have yet to find. www.riflescopes.com | |||
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| <JOHAN> |
Gentlemen I have both Zeiss, Swarowski and leupold. I like the Swarowski and Zeiss for hunting and target shooting. In europe hunting takes place at different hours than in USA soo hunting at dusk or dawn demands good optical quality. I have three 3-12X50 from Swarowski. The leupold has been sent in twice for repair, next time the trash can will eat it ![[Big Grin]](images/icons/grin.gif){kind=icon} Swarowski has a few models that you should take a look at. SWFA is good company to deal with. Buy what you likes the most / JOHAN [ 12-24-2002, 01:32: Message edited by: JOHAN ] | ||
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| one of us |
quote:Just a question here, how do you know that we Americans don't hunt in semi-darkness? The big game hunting hours in Kansas are 1/2 hour before sunrise to half hour after sunset. Those times, by the way, are when deer are the most active in 95% of the places where they are hunted. Believe me, those are some DARK 30 minutes at each end of the day. Most of us do just fine with Leuopold, Burris, Weaver, Sightron, Nikon, and other brands that don't cost $1000+. | |||
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| <Gunnerdog> |
Believe me when I say we don't hunt big game in the USA as late as they do in Europe. It is not unusual to hunt boar etc. well after dark. 1/2 hr. would be early.... This is the main reason why most European scopes carry larger objective lenses and 30mm tubes. In my opinion, I would spend my money on the Leupold unless you are planning on going all the way with the larger objectives and tubes. There is a reason why most target ranges are laden with Leupolds. The price you pay for the Euros are for light gathering abilities. The last time I shot a match, it was in pretty good light!!!!! | ||
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| one of us |
I understand the two scopes are neck in neck as to image brightness, and image clarity. While the first Zeiss Conquests did have some problems, the latest ones are very good and hold up well. There are some differences. The Zeiss has, I believe, it's reticle on the first focal plane. That means it will stay the same size as the magnification increases unlike the Leupold. Most target shooters/varmit hunters want a reticle that gets relatively smaller as the magnification increases. A big game hunter probably would want his reticle to stay the same size. That way he could range his target using his reticle, or see it more easily in bad light. I don't know how easy the elevation, or windage, would be to change on the Zeiss. I know Leupold can add, if the particular model doesn't have them, target knobs of one design or another. If you are going to shoot targets, by all means get something that will allow this to be easily done. E | |||
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| one of us |
About four years ago I had a customer by a Zeiss 30 mm for his Weatheby 30/378. We had trouble with this scope. The turret adjustment knob broke (This was on the orginal sight in. I was with him and nothing was done out of the ordinary). It was plastic. We didn't kow if the gas inside leaked out or not. That was a weak set up. I don't know if that has changed (Zeiss did take care of us but it was a long process not very fast customer service and support.) He was going on a Kodiac Island bear hunt. We picked out a Leupold LPS 300 mm as a replacement. When Jim got back and the Zeiss was back he decided to keep the Leupold and forget about the Zeiss. (Monetary issues were not a question with this gentleman. Most of his rifles had Leupolds or Swarowski on them) He couldn't tell the differnce with them. I found out that at similar price ranges most customers can not tell a big differnce between brands. Yes there is differnces and some people can tell but that is generally what happened. Leupold scope are waterproof without the turret covers. Some European brands are not I was told(I don't remember which ones but it is something to ask) ![[Confused]](images/icons/confused.gif){kind=icon} They are both great scopes. The Zeiss is a little longer if that has any bearing. I am a Leipold fan but love Swarowski too. Good Luck Hcliff | |||
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| <Carl> |
Been abusing a 2-7 Leopold for about 25 years as a guide in northern British Columbia. The Scope is mounted on the FN 338 Win Mag. which is my everyday working tool. Cant say nothing but good about this Scope. When my Horse went over busted the Stock and rear Lens the Leopold People fixed it fast, no hassle and nearly free of charge. My working Binocular is a 10*40 Zeiss absolut waterproof and never no problem either but I have seen more then one Zeiss Riflescope pack it in under the harsch conditions we hunt. Thats just my two bits of knowledge. Carl. | ||
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| one of us |
Ah another scope thread. To minimize the feelings on both side to some degree, Ill sufice to say that for the large part most people automatically assume (1) ALL european scopes are $1000+ (2) are heavy and bulky (3) customer service as an issue (4) European scopes arn't worth it. These are all things I have noticed with North American hunters. Let me tackle this 4 points--- 1. I know there are quality scopes on both sides of the pond that cost several thousand dollars. It really just depends on your budget, the use of the rifle and your paticular tastes. If you are not looking to spend too much money, there are several quality European optics avalable to you. Kahles offers some good scopes. I have a friend who has one on his 416 Rigby with no problems. These can be had for 450-700 depending on magnification and the model. Zeiss Conquest's are about the same price. I believe their prices are fixed no matter where you buy it from. Every place I have seen selling them has the 3x9 for $399. You have gotten the feedback you need on those. When it comes to the $1000+ scopes, they likely will never be fully utilized by the majority of people who have them. I wouldnt even consider them unless you have the money and need that level of scope. 2. The weight is really dependent on the model and materials used in each scope. For instance, 30MM tubed scopes are always going to be heavier then a one inch tubed scope. Also, often times the 30MM tubes are steel, which offers a tuffer scope, but at the price of about 8-10 more ounces. 3. Leupold does offer good service on their scopes, but it seems to me that every Leupold owner has had to use it atleast once. The reason is up to you to decide. Swarovski (zvarofvski) has been known to offer about the quickest and best service of the major European brands. Since Swaro also owns Kahles, the serivce on both is going to be about the same should you need it. 4. Yeah I know, a lot of people automatically assume because its European its not really needed. People often have a stereotype of scopes costing thousands of dollars, and some friend's Leupold has worked for 20+ years, so why do you need to spend an extra hundred dollars or less for a better quality scope. Its purely my opinion that a scope is the most important decision you will have on a rifle, because if you have a crappy scope, you have a crappy rifle in truth. To put it into an anology, does a ferarri perform any better then a VW rabbit if the driver isnt able to put the ferarri to its intended purpose? As an aside, if someone tells you a good reason to choose the Leupold is because its made in America, the truth is they are not. Many of the parts, including the lenses are made in Japan, so I dont think its right to call them USA made. Anyways, to put things back into understanding, just take a look at both scopes and with your judgement choose the one that is best for you, your needs and the rifles intended purpose. Buell | |||
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| <DBKING> |
Let's make this short and simple , to eachhis own! | ||
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| new member |
Thanks to everyone for your great input. You have given me more questions to ask while looking at optics, which should make me a more informed shopper. I appreciate input from both sides of the seas! | |||
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| <Chigger> |
I will only say that I have several newer model Leupolds from 1x4 through 6x20, along with a couple of older Redfields and 2 very old steel Weaver's. Some have survived some pretty harsh treatment while hunting the rockies and woods back home. I am well satisfied with the product, and besides that it is American made. I guess I am not blind enough to need a scope that costs more than the money I paid for those Leupolds, which mind you, have never given me a minute of displeasure. However my wife's was sent back once for the finish on the scope. Leupold did promptly sent a brand new scope to her. Their warranty is 2nd to none in my eyes. ![[Smile]](images/icons/smile.gif){kind=icon} ![[Cool]](images/icons/cool.gif){kind=icon} | ||
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| <Delta Hunter> |
It's obvious some here have never owned the Zeiss Conquest and know little about it. Since I own two of them, I can clear up a few things. First, the Conquest is in the same price range as the Leupold VariX-III and even less than comparable VX-III's in some instances. Second, the Conquest has a second plane American type reticle. Third, the elevation and windage adjustments are very easy because you don't have to use a damn coin or something else to do it, just your fingers. Fourth, Zeiss Conquest scopes have 1" one piece main tubes, not 30mm. [ 12-20-2002, 23:23: Message edited by: Delta Hunter ] | ||
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| one of us |
quote:Precisely why European advice on selecting a scope is not very relevant to us Americans. Our needs are different and what's necessary or important to a European hunter would most likely be irrelevant and burdensome to an American. | |||
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one of us |
quote:True, but go back and read the post that initiated this discussion. I can see nothing there that would justify the assumption that the poster was American, or even inquiring about equipment for American conditions. There are many on this forum (including our gracious host) who are not Americans, and some of them (quite legally) hunt wild boar at 2 a.m without artificial lights. No criticism intended -- just noting that one should keep in mind that the internet extends well beyond North America... | |||
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| one of us |
I select a scope based on clarity,brightness,weight,field of veiw and durability as do most people whether they are north american or not.The scope I have chosen is swarovski's 3x10x42 A- line.If my budget was a bit smaller I would choose the conquest over the vari xiii. | |||
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| one of us |
jpb, I'm well aware that hunters in many countries can take game at hours long past what's generally legal here in the US. I'm well aware too of the Internet's reach. And I'm also not some insular American who's never been outside his country. The originator of this thread is most definitely American, even though he didn't indicate so to you. His name "jdokie" tells any American that he is originally from, or lives in, the state of Oklahoma. "Okies" being a colloquial term for Oklahomans. Furthermore, his very second post indicates that jdokie lives near Stillwater, Oklahoms. Last time I checked the map, Oklahoma was a part of the United States, directly south of Kansas, as a matter of fact. Just like we Americans don't know everything about the rest of the world, the rest of the world is ignorant (or has a mistaken, Hollywood-induced view) of a great many things about us. Fair enough? | |||
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| one of us |
>Precisely why European advice on selecting a >scope is not very relevant to us Americans. Our >needs are different and what's necessary or >important to a European hunter would most likely >be irrelevant and burdensome to an American. Exactly. Comparing Leupold with Zeiss (or Svarovski) is like comparing Chrysler with Mercedes. I lived and hunted both in Europe and the US and could never understand why it is so important to get something a little cheaper and of lesser quality. It is the tools for something I enjoy very much and relying on quality is just a pleasure, plain and simple. If I wanted to save, I'd buy my meat at the supermarket. Weidmann's Heil, Dirk | |||
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| one of us |
Dirk, there comes a point where overengineering for the sake of it becomes conunterproductive. Daimler Benz learned that lesson in the early 90s in the US market when the Japanese carmakers beat them at their own game in DB's most lucrative market. Same applies to scopes. We're not cheap. We just don't like to waste money. Your insinuations that American products cannot match the quality of those made in Germany is basically ludicrous. We make MANY products that are unequalled, let alone supassed, anywhere else in the world. | |||
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| one of us |
>We make MANY products that are unequalled, let >alone supassed, anywhere else in the world. Like what, burger and coke? (Sorry, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa, that was just too tempting. I appologize to my american friends for insulting their pride and patriotism) Regards, Dirk | |||
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| one of us |
After carrying a buddy's Rem 700 mounted with a monster Zeiss 30mm tube scope and a huge objective in the Wyoming mountains once in a while for him ... I am very much happier with my own taste in scopes ... the Leupold 2 1/2 x 8 and the Zeiss 3 x 9 Conquest. The Leupold is mounted on a custom pre-64 M70 in 338 WM (Kreiger bbl, McMillan pilar bedded stock, etc, etc) ... total package just makes 8 pounds and holds 2" at 300 yards. The Zeiss is mounted on a Weatherby Mark V in 375 H&H. Weighs more, but a 375 should weigh more! It holds sub 1/2 minute groups. (VERY pleasantly surprized me!) Both scopes seem to have equal clarity and light gathering capability. Both have been durable so far. Neither seems to need to be babied in cold and wet weather. Given these two alternatives, I think the choice is one of size, weight, and intended purpose. Hard to beat the Leupold on a light rifle of substantive caliber that you want to drag around the big woods. | |||
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Moderator |
Are you looking for justification to spend more? The post COULD have read tasco-weaver-leupold-zeiss-kahles, for price points. Since it's asked, i prefer leupold to anything else under $400.. why? because you can get a great rugged scope for $300, and shoot the world round with it. the 7mm rule applies to all scopes and eyes. For a high dollar scope? I've only had limited experiences with zeiss.. and all of them GREAT. for leupolds? I have sent 3 back: 2 for repair and 1 for a new reticle. the repaired ones had thousands of rounds under them, and it might have been my fault on one of them. get the leupold, and buy great iron sights, would be pretty good advice jeffe | |||
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| <Bruz> |
http://www.discountfirearms.com/makers.asp?ptype=O I have not used these people, but I have yet to see any better prices. The prices are even lower than I see used one's sell for in the classifieds. Has anyone bought through them? | ||
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| one of us |
The germans are finally getting into lower costing products for the american market. Where their low cost market in Europe has earned them a few cargo ships full of money, there is little market for them in the US. Go to most any european country and see what the taxi's are. Almost all of them are diesel E series mercedes or the equivalent. You would be hard pressed to find a new diesel MB today in the US. I dont believe in overengineering, just that anything simple can cause just as bad of failure as anything technical. The new conquest is a good scope, just as most anything Zeiss makes. What I like to see in an optics company is that they make a lot of different products of optical equipment and they are all good in that regard. For instance, whilst Leupod makes a good scope, their spotting scopes and bino's fail next to their european counterparts. What makes the Leupold a good value is customer service and bang for the buck. they are at just the right price to make them worth the money, but good enough for MOST hunters needs. Its not exception that there is better, but that it costs money. I am sure one could speend 3000 on a scope, just look at some of the new Unertl scopes for sale! I would rather spend my money on binocs then a scope, just because I know for a good amount of money I could have a good scope that will last. A 500 scope is all the above average hunter will need and more. To put a long story short, expect to pay for quality and spend money where its need most! Buell | |||
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| one of us |
quote:Let's start with just about the worst airplane made in the US is MILES better than anything made in Germany, or anywhere else, for that matter. Hmmmmm, Caterpillar is the world standard for construction and earth moving machinery. Dupont chemicals and polymers are, once again, the best in the world. Cinncinati-Milacron in milling machines. And don't even get me started on medical technology and medical know how. I could go on, but I don't need to. I don't need to stand on patrotism, the quality of many of the products we make, and their dominance in their markets stand on their own. German cars are overpriced for what they offer. The Japanese can match them or exceed them in any category, at a competitive price, to boot. BTW, once you step away from the Mercedes-Benz and BMW level, German car quality decreases so fast that the gap to American cars is insignificant. I know this from having owned several German brands, Porsche and VW included. I now drive an American made truck. [ 12-23-2002, 18:32: Message edited by: ksduckhunter ] | |||
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one of us |
Hi, Duck: Give it a rest. The fact is, both Boeing and McDonell/Douglas have to compete even inside the U.S. against Airbus, and they don't always win. Caterpillar often loses contracts to Kubota and Daiwa. Dupont, also, has active competitors in every area, from adhesives and abrasives to feed additives, so, although I don't know specifically what you think they are unsurpassed at, you are wrong. The U.S. has much to recommend it, including its history of freedom of religion, freedom of the press and freedom of assembly. All these, of course, have now been thrown out, and the rest of the world hopes there is more remaining than hot air and nuclear weapons. Oh. I almost forgot. There IS one thing for which the U.S. is unsurpassed: its major export — entertainment. Nowhere else would an actor who makes his living pretending he is something he is not dare to give advice to the President of the United States. Between Monty Hall, Barbara Streisand, Kim Novak, Crissy Hind, Martin Sheen and a bunch of teenage strippers that call themselves vocal artists, you have set a standard we all pray will NEVER be equalled. kk | |||
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one of us |
KK, Point well made. Now back to the topic, I have owned a Leupold VariXIII 3.5X10 and a Zeiss 3X9 conquest scope at the same time and the Zeiss was far superior in every way. The clarity in MUCH better, the crosshairs are cleaner. But what really makes the Zeiss a winner is light transmission. Two areas were I really saw a difference, when sighting in the Zeiss on a 7mag, I had the 6mm rem with me that wore the Leupold 3.5X10. At 100 yds though the leupold I would have to get up and go look at the target to see were the 6mm bullets were grouping, Or I could simply pick up the 7 mag with the Zeiss and I could tell instantly were the shots were and how tight the group was. At night I could scope a tractor about 300yds from my house, with the leupold you could see it was a tractor. With the Zeiss I could read the writing on the hood. The Zeiss IMO is a far superior scope, They are both priced about the same and the Zeiss model you want has a side focus. I would think it would be a no brainer. I sold my leupold on ebay and I replaced it with a another Zeiss. One area were the Leupold will probably beat a Zeiss is in resale value. It amazes me what folks will pay for a used leupold on Ebay. Terry | |||
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| one of us |
Hi, TC1: I, also, have a Leupold 3.5 X 10 (X50). Unfortunately, I don't have a Zeiss to compare against it. How confident are you that the Leupold was properly set up, and that it is representative of other Leupolds? I can see .338 holes at 200 meters, if that's any indication. kk | |||
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| one of us |
Well, All I can say is the 3.5X10 was on par with other VariXIII's I've owned. I like Leupolds, I'm told customer service is 2nd to none (I've never had to use it though) but I think the cheapest Zeiss made is superior to the top of the line Leupolds. I don't think I could ever justify buying one of their "high end" models though. I may be wrong but they're my eyes, I gotta look though'm. Terry | |||
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| one of us |
quote:Ah, so spoken by our resident know-it-all. | |||
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| <J G F> |
I wasn't going to bother posting as the original person asking the question has probably long since departed for other places with friendlier faces. I'm amazed that such a simply question generated such heated discourse. I have just registered on this site thinking it might be one I'd enjoy...I hope this thread isn't a typical one. All my high powered rifles are scoped with Leupold except one which has a Zeiss 3x9 on it. I've used many models of Leupolds and used them exclusively for the 6 years I lived and hunted in Alaska. I never, NEVER, lost a day of hunting to fogged or malfunctioning scopes which my hunting companions were happy of as they nearly always had to borrow my back up when their scopes failed them. None of those were a Zeiss though and I very much doubt one would encounter such trouble with them as they are exceptional scopes. I've taken animals when the light had faded to the point I couldn't see them with the naked eye, and I have never felt they were anything short of super clear. I cannot tell any significant difference between my Zeiss's clarity and that of any of my Leupolds. The one thing I like about Leupolds that others do not offer (at least to my knowledge) is an extra measure of eye relief. They have about a half inch more than any I've researched and for big boomers that's important to eyeglass wearers such as myself. As for customer support, I've used it once many years ago on a scope I purchased second hand and the bill was nil. That's hard to beat. I have a friend that has used them recently for another used scope which he ended up getting a brand new replacement for free. Again that's hard to beat. I suppose there must be a difference in some of those $1000 scopes, but I have yet to see enough to drive me to get one...I'd rather have another rifle. J G F | ||
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| <500 A2> |
This is easy. The Carl Zeiss is the only choice. Leupolds are good scopes, but quite frankly are out of their league when compared to a Zeiss. You are paying for the optiks gentlemen. Leupold is NOT a world renowned optiks maker. On the contrary, Zeiss is the best optiks maker in the world! The finest scopes in the world are either: Carl Zeiss or Leica Lucs [ 12-23-2002, 21:26: Message edited by: 500 A2 ] | ||
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| <JOHAN> |
quote:ksduckhunter I have hunted in USA Three times and not a single time have I heard that american hunters have been hunting during the dark hours. In fact, I had some of my american realitives hunting roebuck in Sweden. They talked alot about hunting during the dark hours and the style of hunting that is common in Europe. Most american hunters are at sleep in their beds while european hunters are out in the dark waiting. If I'm correct the question was about expierience with scopes and which model you would prefer? Do you have any problems with my experience with certain scope makes or what I would prefer? I hope I didn't got it all wrong about the question jdokie wrote / JOHAN | ||
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| <JoeR> |
TC1, I agree with you. I have both Leupold and Zeiss but my Conquest 3.5-10 is much brighter and for $428 it is an absolute bargain. If you do not think the Zeiss Conquest line is sending Leupold scurrying to the drawing boards, you would be mistaken. High quality optics and coatings, etched reticle, very large amt. of elevation change, lifetime warranty, Zeiss name, inexpensive availablility of add-on target turrets and a LOW PRICE all add up to why the Conquest line is severly back-ordered. Best news though, it will force Leupold to improve to stay competitive. | ||
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| one of us |
quote:Johan, feel free to offer any opinion you have about any scope you like. You can, however, save your breath about how well European scopes work in the dark. jdokie is an American, and hunts in OKLAHOMA, which is a part of the USA, last time I checked. Light gathering ability in the middle of the night is just about near the bottom in the list of priorities of most American hunters. | |||
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| <JOHAN> |
ksduckhunter Soo if he is hunting in America, perhaps he would like to feel a bit continental/European and have a scope that would work when the sun has left I think it would be better with one universal scope for each gun than swapping back and foruth. A more radical advice would be to get a night vision scope at once with IR spotlight and why not some thermal options while we are there ![[Eek!]](images/icons/shocked.gif){kind=icon} I'm just curious ksduckhunter, Are you involved in any of the american scopemanufacturers ![[Wink]](images/icons/wink.gif){kind=icon} I'm not partial in any way more than I have scopes made in USA and Europe /JOHAN [ 12-24-2002, 16:19: Message edited by: JOHAN ] | ||
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