After all of the hub-bub over the Barnes X, the XLC, the Triple Shock and now the MRX, there is one issue that I do not understand.

How can anyone come even close to thinking that the FailSafe is better in performance after all of the testing that has been done and animals that have been shot.

I don't want this to turn into an arguement but I will state right now that I have only taken one animal with the Barnes X and none with the FailSafe but I would like to hear the reasoning behind this.

It just doesn't seem logical from what I have seen as a bullet consumer and reloader that the FailSafe is even in the same Realm as the Triple Shock now is?

I think that your right about the TSX and the MRX. But compared to the X and the XLC, especially the earlier versions, the Fail Safe was a better bullet. Probably the sweet spot for the evolution of the design. The original Black Talon wasn't the best until it got the Fail Safe steek insert and the new XP3 doesn't interest me at all.

I think that the main reason was that Winchester ammo, under the umbrella of Olin, had the resources to make a much more consistent bullet. It is no secret that in the beginning of the X and possibly up until five of six years ago Barnes had trouble getting consistent raw material. Whereas Winchester from the get go could demand from suppliers material made to their spec. Though Winchester did mess with things like the bullet's ogive over the years that threw many for a loop. And that was a pain in the ass to develope a great load and have the bullet change on you. Luckily I layed in a supply of 230 gr. Fail Safes(same lot) a few years ago that shoot well. The Fail Safe was also a shorter bullet for its weight for when that mattered relative to pressure and OAL.

That said the Fail Safe was and still is a great bullet. My Dad and I recovered two from two different elk that performed perfect and absolutley destroyed both animals.

But I think that you are right in saying that the new breed of X bullets are better than the Fail Safe. At least the TSX. The MRX needs a season or two in the field before we can say it truly is a great bullet. I'll most likely be using 200 gr. .308 TSX's this fall.

The main feature of the Fail safe was its construction made it accurate in more barrels than the Barnes X. The Fail Safe is more forgiving as to bbl diameters.

I personally would consider the Failsafe to be just as tough and probably tougher than the XXX. I'll put it this way, the failsafe fails to open on many medium sized animals due to it's tough construction so, the XXX probably has it beat in that category but, on the larger stuff I'd consider the FS a very tough bullet. I saw a failsafe punch through alot of bone and exit on a bull elk a few seasons back and every FS I've seen recovered from big animals had very high weight retention so I don't think anyone should say it's not in the same league as the X bullets.

Another plus for the FSs is they don't foul like the X or the XXX. Even though the XXX has dramatically reduced fouling issues they still foul terribly IMO.

The FSs are darn accurate in many rifles so that's certainly not a con.

What gets me is why anyone would use either on medium game such as deer and antelope To each his own I guess .

Good Luck

Reloader

I think the premium bullets are used on Deer (Whitetail) and Speed goat to add confidence when using smaller calibers. (and by this I specifically refer to bore diameter)

Like a 243Win, which many 30cal shooters consider marginal is far less so when loaded with Partitions
or TSXs, infact I think that you can get away from the
100 & 105gr bullets and go with the faster/flatter
shooting 85gr bullets

the same can be said of the 25's. I have never been a fan of the 115/120's in the 25-06.
Mostly because I didn't buy a 25-06 (any of the three times I bought one) to shoot bullets at 2900-3000fps which is as fast as you can push the 120grain "heavyweights" (though I hesitate to call a 120gr bullet a "heavyweight" I lack a better term), but the TSX in a 100gr bullet pretty much kills the arguements of the Heavy Bullet Mafia members of these forums

NOR do I see the point in using SLOW 160's in the 7mmRem Mag, from experience and the dispassionate observation of others there is no material differenc in penetration between 160gr 7mm bullets and 165gr 30cal bullets, so if I want to shoot 160gr bullets at 3000fps I can just as easily use a 30-06....

With bullets that you KNOW will behave consistantly you can trade a bit of "surplus" sectional density and replace it with velocity. a premium bullet that won't break up and WILL
penetrate means I don't need to use a heavier, slower bullet.

AllanD

Thanks for the explanations. It's nice to hear of experiences over theories and theories from experience.

Oh crap, now you've done it... the self-appointed resume' police are gonna crawl out of the woodwork and start demanding proof I know what I'm talking about...



AllanD

Magnum61 ----- Let me tell you my experiences with the Failsafe and you can draw your own conclusions about the bullet. I have loaded it for years for an Elk hunting buddy who shoots a 7mm Wby. The rifle is a very accurate rifle with an excellent scope. I load him a 160 grain Failsafe that I got for him on sale some years ago on Midway, which also ran a special on Federal silver brass (I am not real fond of it but the sale was to good to pass up at the time). I shot his rifle and loaded several loads and settled on a very accurate combination of RL-22 powder and the Failsafe bullets. He has now shot that load for 4 years and taken Elk with it, last years Bull at 515 yards with a single shot. Needless to say he is partial to that load and bullet. ----- Now my own experience with the Failsafe. Midway ran a sale some months ago on the Nosler Partition Combined Tech Failsafe non-coated bullet in .277 caliber at 140 grains, normally a $29.00 per box bullet for $5.99 per box. I had just started work on a .270 WSM and figured heck, if it doesn't shoot well I can probably sell them or just keep them for plinking at that price. I bought six boxes and started loading. This bullet and my North Forks are equally accurate (and that is saying something) and I am very pleased with my tiny groups with bullets I don't have a fortune in. I am getting 3250 fps and can count on near one holers of the occasional one holer when I have a good day. The Failsafes are also very tough and if your rifle shoots them accurately, they are fine far any game you wish to hunt in my opinion. I am a North Fork man, therefore I have great respect for a bullet as tough and nearly as accurate as they are, particularly that can be bought cheap with diligent shopping. Good shooting.