Hi guys/gals,

I was just fortunate enough to fill my Oregon 2nd season "spike only" elk tag last saturday.(last day was sunday). Anyway i decided to hunt with my ruger m77 in .338 winchester mag. I have a load of 72.0 gr. of IMR 4350 in a remington case, Remington 9/1/2 magnum primers pushing a 250 gr. spitzer Hornady interlock. I haven't had a chance to chrony this load but the Lyman book says around 2750 fps i think.

Anyway i shot a spike at 110 yds. He was slightly quartering away, the bullet entered high in the lungs behind his shoulder and blew up his backbone. There was no exit, somehow his liver was destroyed(bullet fragments? Bone?) He was uphill and i had no good shot of his lower vitals(heart, etc) because of brush in the way. So i hit exactly where i was trying to. He dropped like a ton of bricks, but im not too impressed with the way the bullet performed. I cannot find the bullet, it looks as if it should be lodged in the back bone somewhere. I dug around and can't find it, all i found was 2 pieces weighing less than 5 grains each of lead and jacket.

I am pretty dissapointed, i know that hornady interlocks aren't a high dollar premium, bonded bullet, but i though they would perform a little better than that.

I guess the bullet did its job, but i figured it would have exited. It looks as if it blew up( the blown up liver?) I didn't hit it directly in the liver, my shot was high behind the shoulder blade.

Have you guys had any experience with the 250 grain spitzer hornady interlock in a .338 win mag or other cartridge. If so how has it performed for you?
Thanks

Sorry, can't help you the experience side.
I will follow this thread with interest though.
Thanks for posting your experience.

I've never used that caliber for elk, but I have used Hornady Interlocks on them. My dad and I both use .300 Weatherbys for elk, with 180 grain Hornady Spire-point Interlocks in handloads - at much higher velocity than yours was. Between us, we've taken six bulls at ranges from 35 yards to 400. Terminal performance has always been perfect. We've never failed to get an exit and have never found any evidence of fragmentation at all. The last bull I shot was broadside at 35 yards and the bullet went through both shoulders and out. I picked up a fist full of bone shards spread out in a fan on the far side. I've shot a lot of other game with that rifle and bullet and have never had a failure of any kind.

Dunno. I guess it was just your turn. There are no magic bullets - they all can and do fail. The Interlock may not be a premium but I've never had a problem with it. The last bullet failure I witnessed was with a Barnes X. Go figure.
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

My wife shot an oryx with her .257 Roberts using 120 grain Interlocks. The shot was about 150 yards, the animals was pretty tightly quartering away. The bullet hit something going in (I'm still not real sure what), basically plowed up the chest cavity tearing up things as it went, and eventually came to rest just outside the ribs, but inside of both shoulders in two pieces - one on each side. Not really "great" performance, but it resulted in a very dead oryx, so I guess we can't claim it was a failure. We used the load because her rifle shot it real well and we had plenty on hand. It's her deer load, but I think if she hunts anything larger in the future, I'll be loading a Partition or X bullet.

I'm fortunate (sometimes I question it though) to unofficially guide hunters for elk each year. So I get to see several elk and deer taken each year above and beyond the one I shoot.

Over several seasons I've found that most of the standard ctg's; .308, .30-06, .270/.280, etc, all perform well with STANDARD bullets. There are a few strange exceptions such as bullet breakup from short range shots where the velocity is still high, or the ocasional unexplainable failure from hitting heavy bone or "texas" heart shots that hit the paunch,etc. But GENERALLY what I call standard cartridges get by OK with standard bullets.

Move up 200-300 fps in velocity to what I call your STANDARD MAGNUMS , meaning the .300 H&H, .300 Win/Wby, etc. And IMHO you now need to use PREMIUM bullets. I've seen more bullet failures; mostly shallow penetration with bullet fragmentation ,from this group than the STANDARD ctg's. Much of it is due to high impact velocities. An animal hit with a std Sierra/Hornady/Speer bullet travelling at 3000 fps! That IMHO is asking an awful LOT of a bullet.
UNLESS the range is a bit greater, say 300 yds plus, then this group performs very well.

I have limited exposure to the real super mag's such as the .30-.378, Lazzeroni,etc. So really no data there. The two I've seen used all were loaded with Barnes X's and the ranges were fairly long.

WHAT your asking your bullet to do enters into it too. Breaking heavy bone with most any bullet short of a heavy .338" on up is asking a lot. Same thing for those angle shots requiring lots of penetration.

Mr. Weasil I think YOU did pretty good. A dicey shot, with the bullet striking right where you wanted it too? A dead elk? NO failure I can see.
We all seem to want 1" shooters at 200 yds, that will deliver 95%+ bullet retention at ANY range on ANY game. Forget it. I think your over thinking this whole deal.

Then again the SHORT reply.... Then use a premium bullet and you will probably have exit wounds.

FN in MT

I've used this bullet and I agree with Frank. If you believe that you need a high percentage of weight retention, go with a premium, or move up a weight in the bullet itself (in 338, a 275 or 300 gr bullet). That will usually solve any perceived problem. - Dan

I not used the 250 Hornady on Elk, but sure would do so without hesitation. I used them in Africa, and they worked perfectly time after time.

[ 11-18-2003, 22:33: Message edited by: Terry Blauwkamp ]

I am not sure what you are upset about. I cannot see how the bullet failed in any respect.

You did not recover the bullet, maybe it had great weight retention, we just don't know. The animal died post haste and you will be eating elk steaks. Sounds like a good deal to me.

The liver could have been torn up from bullet fragments, but more likely from bone fragments, given the impact area.

I personally shoot Nosler Partitions for elk in my .338 Win Mag, but it sounds to me like your Hornady bullets did just fine.

R F

Frank summed it up pretty well. I use 250 grain hornadys in my 338 and have had very good luck with them. I have shot 4 of these in elk. Two of them were broadside shots that broke ribs on both sides and exited with about 1" hole. They appeared to expand quickly and hold together well. The other two were quartering shots on elk. They were both recovered after about 3 feet of penetration just under the hide before exiting. The bullets were just about a perfect mushroom. Even though I have only 4 examples I have had 100% perfect performance with these bullets in elk. So at least for the time being I don't see the need for a more expensive bullet in the 338.

Looks like that bullet did just fine. Hitting the spine is going to do a number on any bullet. Yea the Hornaday broke up a little but you collected you game. Gave up a few chops in the process but, this happens when you apply bullets to meat. You could go to a better bullet, the extra half a dollar a piece would give you peace of mind. You saw that a less than perfect shot placement resulted in less than perfect bullet performance. In the future, try to keep the Hornaday off the heavy bones like the spine and it should be ok.

FWIW - I only use the partitions in my 338 Winnie. Of course, I always have bruno in the back of my mind when hunting. In fact, I jumped one while out deer hunting a couple of weeks ago. Here is your 250 gr Hornady sectioned (4th bullet from left.) Here's what the others are for comparision (#1 is on left, #6 is on far right)

#1 - .30 cal 180 gr partition gold
#2 - .338 cal 250 gr partition
#3 - .375 cal 300 gr partition
#4 - .338 cal 250 gr Hornady
#5 - .375 cal 270 gr Kodiak bonded
#6 - .338 cal 250 gr Kodiak bonded



I used the 250 gr Hornady to work up loads for the partition and the shoot very close to the same POI.

Thanks guys for the replies. I am glad to hear your stories. I wasn't neccessarily dissapointed, i mean a dead elk is a dead elk. I have just never shot anything with these 250 gr. interlocks so i guess i didn't know what to expect. Given the situation and shot placement, looking back i have no complaints. My shot dropped the elk in his tracks, what more could i have asked for?

I'm sure this bullet will suit me fine, i think that i will try and stay away from heavy bone with this one though. I had to take what shot i had, and i'm glad the interlock worked as well as it did.

Thanks again for the replies, and comments.

Did the bullet hit a rib and break up on the way in?

that's what it's sounding like (w/ the comment re. the liver), and I would agree that it's kind of disappointing, you'd hope it wouldn't break up on a rib, esp a big 338 bullet

here's my related story...

at end of day my daughter shoots nice muley buck at 150yds, quartering slightly away

bullet is 7mm 139gr hornady interlock, ~3000fps at muzzle

she hits him in a rib 2/3 back on the near lung, whatever was left of bullet angles forward thru middle other lung and muscle of far foreleg, great shot placement

bullet jacket ends up under skin on far side (wt about 30 gr as I recall), no exit wound

the buck jumped straight up at the shot, trotted over a ridge

bottom line, couldn't find him that evening before dark, or after dark w/ flashlights, but did find him first thing the next a.m.

though like your elk he didn't go too far and was recovered, I wasn't impressed w/ interlock ability to hold bullet together, muley ribs aren't the toughest test, and an exit sure is nice for a blood trail

and I don't know whether it was the bullet or the rib, but gutting a buck that had a perforated rumen overnight, even in cold weather, is an ugly job

Nontypical,

The bullet broke 3 ribs going in on the entry side because of the angle. It looked as if the bullet kept a straight path, so im thinking that it didn't completely blow up. It may or may not have as i didn't find the bullet. I will have to look after i cut it up to see if i can find the bullet then. I would hope that a 250 gr. bullet designed for big game hunting wouldn't blow up after hitting a few ribs, but i just don't know. Maybe this was a fluke, i still don't know how well the bullet held together. But after finding pieces of jacket and broken up lead i know it broke up a little, just don't know how much. If I find out more after butchering then i will post it.

Here is a moose my hunting partner shot a week or so ago. fairly close range, ~150 yards, 250 grain Interlock out of a .338 Win Mag. Caught the big fellow broadside and took out both lungs and the top of the heart and he dropped within 10 feet of where he was shot. Bullet was recovered under the hide on the off side and weighed in at 165 grains.

There is nothing wrong with the Interlock at all. Proper bullet placement is as important as bullet construction and in this particular case his Sako shoots these Hornady bullets better than anything else. (1 1/2" 200 yard groups)

It seems that Kodiak bullets have thick jackets on both the .338 and .375.

Cariboo,

I think I pretty clearly described a case where an interlock did NOT hold together with excellent shot placement

the interlock ring just isn't going to hold things together as well as bonding or a partition...

I agree it works with good shot placement, but am having doubts about using it much, they are accurate bullets, but there are other better constructed and accurate bullets

Edited as I should read what was said not what I thought was said! LoL

[ 11-20-2003, 21:11: Message edited by: Cariboo ]

NonTypical, here's another experience with the 7mm Hornady 139 grain Interlok.

Several years ago, I killed a Calif. antelope in Lassen County, at about 215 yards, using my Rem. 725 in .280 Remington. Load was the Hornady I.L. 139 gr., with 56.0 grs IMR 4350. The bullet entered left side, just behind the shoulder, smashed a rib, then literally shredded both lungs. Bullet exited with about a one inch hole on right side, but shattered a rib on that side. The 'lope literally fell forward on his knees, then rolled over on his side, dead. Couldn't find the bullet.

Three years ago, I used my Pachmayr Custom in .280 Reminton, same load as above, to kill a 230+ pound Mule deer, here in Idaho, at about 160/175 yards. Nearly same angle of shot, other than it was more quartering, than straight through-and-through. Same results. The 139 grain I.L. hit a rib, blew up both lungs and there were some bone fragments in the heart. Couldn't find the bullet. The deer took a couple of steps and fell, before I could get back on him with my scope.

So, my experience is different from your's, with that bullet. I trust it fully. Can't blame you for your feelings on it, but that bullet works for me in my .280 Remington rifles.

L.W.

The 250 Hornady is a little soft for the big animals IMO, but you will get a lot of quick kills with it..limit it to broadside shots and it will work fine...Or you can slow it down to 2400 FPS and it will work fine from any angle I suspect..bullet integrity is the problem and velocity is the enemy of bullet integrity.

I much prefer the 300 ge. Woodleigh or 250 gr. Nosler myself for elk and larger animals..

Ray-- disagree with you on the interlocks. Have used the 139gr sp in 7 mag 69.8 H-4831 in Hornady book Vol#2 since 1972, No problems at all with speed behind that even so little bullet going 3275 fps. On 3rd 7mag now, my wife's now. She stoled my newest 7mag in a wby cause of the pretty wood and dime accuracy. So I sold her 280 Rem, to get the 7stw. Even that 280 at 2950av.fps with H-139gr and 59gr H-4831 no problem. You're always thinking the bigger the better on bigger animals elk size, even a moose is a joke. Big bear's different story. But also have the Hornady Interbonds now, another fine bullet. Have shot them in my sendero 300wby 165gr at 3390fps and they do not come apart. Shot placement is every thing no matter what you shoot. Practice is every thing, and I hate to shoot animals in the shoulder, and waste meat.
14 elk and countless deer and have not lost one elk, had to shoot a couple twice, out of 18 elk all total, but who has not even with a bigger gun or bullet?? 4 shot with the 7stw at 3530 av.fps with the H-139sp and 150gr scirocco
all little bullets at high Vel. Just got the 139 Interbonds and moly coated them and get 3575-3600
av.fps. out of 7stw. Try them next month on late season elk hunt.
Forgot to mention the Interbonds will be out soon in the 180gr for 30 cal. for those who like that bullet. Plus, midway has a over stock and inventory sale on the Interbonds in the 284 cal. for $24.00 not to bad of a price. Just got mine after waiting since last Feb. from another place for $22.00.

[ 11-23-2003, 21:01: Message edited by: 4bambam ]