I've just joined a new hunting club and it is possable to take a 4 or 500 yard shoot. The gun-Remington model 721 .270 win .
The load in currently shooting is 150 Gr. Nosler Partition. Powder-imr4350, Brass- any kind trimmed to length, primer cci mag
Shoots one inch groups at 100 yards.

What I bascially want to do is shoot the same load but with a different bullet. I know that there is a lot of new bullets out there, but I want something that is time proven to kill white tails

This is probably the only time I would recommend a Nosler BT. If you can be sure your shots will be beyond 150yds or so and a 140grNBT bullet is accurate in your rifle, it would make a fine whitetail bullet. I like the 140gr Nosler Accubond better.

Why do you need a different bullet to 500 yards? Do you practice at that range?

If you want ultimate BC, I'd suggest a Wildcat 150 grain ULD RBBT.

The Lost River Ballistics folks make some good hunting bullets with very high BCs, but they're very expensive at $2 of bullet. If your gun shoots them well, they might be worth it?

After the LRB J36 hunting bullet, there are many bullets of roughly equivalent BC - NBT, Accubond, Hornady IB, TSX, XLC, MRX (coming soon), etc.

I don't have a chart for Nosler bullets, but I can make one up. However here is the difference between a 130 gr. Sierra BTSP @ 3100 fps vs. 150 gr. Sierra BTSP @ 2900 fps. both are about max for the 270win. As you can see there is about 9" differences in bullet drop between them. 400yrds isn't that far for a 270. The drop is only 18" for the 130 gr. I'm sure you can estimate a foot and a half at 400yrds. In flight time is less, I think the wind drift is probably less for the 130 at that dictance too, due to time of flight.
[url="http://www.hunt101.com/?p=369554&c=545&z=1"] [/url] Opppppps, ----- I zeroed the 130 at 200yrd and the 150 at 100yrds. There is really only a few inches, difference. Shows you what can happen when your in a hurry. I'm to tired to fix it tonight. Either bullet at 400 to 500 is easy to figure a hold over for though..... Just make sure you don't use one load from one manufacture to load for another, you can get into real trouble doing that.......

Thanks, Mike

You will have a better chance of wounding a deer at 500 yds than hitting him unless you can practice at that range.JMHO

I have not had great expansion results with the J36 from Lost River Ballistics on several animals that I shot with it this year. These were at ranges where terminal velocities were still over 2500 fps.

From my experience, the Barnes TSX has better expansion. The forthcoming MRX from Barnes may be even better.

Long range performance (at slower velocities) may be very different from bullet to bullet.

I'd use a 140gr Barnes X BT or a 140 gr Nosler Accubond. Both have a BC of close to .5 and will pentrate weel at close range and expand reliably at long range.

solaman, I have had good luck with both the CT Ballistic Tip in 130 gr. and the XXX @ 130 gr. at that distance. It has only been within the last 2 years that I have had the confidence to shoot at those yardages, thanks in large part to help from folks here on AR.

The key as some have mentioned is practice at those yardages, which is admittedly hard to do sometimes, depending on your range situation.

I have taken several extremely large whitetails at 450+ with the NBT. If I was going today with expectation of a shot of that range, I would shoot the XXX, simply because it shoots just as well in my rigs as the NBT, and I think it to be tougher. A non -shoulder shot is pretty important at that range IMO as well.

Good Luck--Don

fish-you've got my curiousity as to why you would suggest a "non-shoulder shot"?

Thx

Mark D

Mark, I haven't looked to see what the retained energy is, but at that distance I know it is less than ideal if you hit a big boy on the shoulder. I personally aim for the boiler room all the time, I've shot plenty in the shoulder in my time, but don't think it is good shot placement, JMO. I have seen big whitetails disappear after being hit at long range, presumably on the shoulder as that was where the point of aim was, confirmed hits with spotter and binoc's, deer gone.

Nothing too scientific, just experience and gut.(feeling)

solaman,

quote:

Originally posted by solaman:
I've just joined a new hunting club and it is possable to take a 4 or 500 yard shoot. The gun-Remington model 721 .270 win .
The load in currently shooting is 150 Gr. Nosler Partition. Powder-imr4350, Brass- any kind trimmed to length, primer cci mag
Shoots one inch groups at 100 yards.

What I bascially want to do is shoot the same load but with a different bullet. I know that there is a lot of new bullets out there, but I want something that is time proven to kill white tails

I would leave well-enough alone; in your case, you have excellence!

And while I have shot at least one deer at the range you have indicated, it was with a 7MM Rem Mag, and I would not recommend it. I would not have taken the shot but for some damn road hunters who were gonna scare it back into dense cover!


Good luck,

Tom

Solaman,
The 270 with 150 gr. Partition at 400 yards is traveling "roughly" 2100 fps with "roughly" 1500 ft. lbs. of energy. At 500 it is still at "roughly" 1900 fps with "roughly" 1300 ft. lbs. of energy. Technically that's enough to put any North American deer in the freezer. And the partition should perform as designed within those ballistics. In my opinion,,,, you may find a bullet that gives you a little more punch, but so little it wouldn't be worth quibbling over. If you like the load you have at short distances,,, stick with it for long too,,,it'll do the job.

And before anyone starts with exact ballistics,,,,I did say "roughly", and "in my opinion".

Good Luck,
Jason

Fish that is about the weakess reason not to use a shoulder shot at range that I have ever heard of.

What gives?

Do you feel it may not penetrate?

The ones that got away can in no way be seriously thought of to of been shoulder shot cause they were never retrieved. Who knows where they were hit!

Mark D

Mark , you are right, the ones that weren't recovered you can't determine where they were hit! Shoulder was the point of aim though.

A weak reason it may be, never thought about it much, just don't do it, at any range for that matter--but there are those more technically knowledgeable than me for sure, that do.

Good Shooting--Don

The .270 rifle I have is my favorite for Coues deer and pronghorn. Custom built for me about 20 years ago by P.L. Holehan in Tucson. I reloaded for years, but for the past several years have used the Hornady Light Magnum 130 gr.SST which gives me 3225 fps, and exceptional accuracy in my rifle.

Fish, I will tell you that I hunt in some really thick Georgia woods. If you don't find them quick you likely won't find them. I try every time to tear up some running gear so they will not move too far before giving up the ghost. If you use a reasonable bullet at reasonable velocity you will not go wrong with a shoulder shot. If you hit the shoulder blade you will spatter the boiler room with bullet/bone fragments so that everything is a bit leaky in there. If you are using marginally useful cartridges/bullets for the job things may change. For instance a 223 or 243 with light BT bullets you might just want to try to slip it in between the ribs.

Back to the original question.
I believe that your Nosler Partition is a perfect deer bullet for the situation you have described. If you were to consider another I think the Swift Scirrocco would be the next logical choice. Good luck.

have shot the 130 grn in sierra boattails and nosler balistic tips for the past 12-14 yrs very sucessfully on elk deer bear don't see why it wouldn't work on whitetails.my pet load rolls out of a winchester model 70 @ 3080 and from the bench 3 you can cover with a quarter,killed a bull elk 4yrs ago at 489 and had the setup not been perfect wouldn't of gone there w/130grn. not enuf bullet

Just because you can prove on paper what a cartridge/bullet combination is capable of, that doesn't mean the man pulling the trigger is capable of doing it. Most hunters I know are barely capable of passing the pieplate test at 100yds, because they do not practice. shooting 20-50 rounds per week I am confident that I can make offhand shots out to about 250yds. (I have a peep sight on my deer rifle). I shoot at varmints with a 20X scope at 400yds with a good rest. The only people that I know who can consistantly hit targets beyond that range are competitive shooters. Without an awful lot of practice at differing ranges, the most an average hunter can do at 500yards is wound a deer, if he is lucky enough to hit it at all. The notion of being able to cleanly kill at that range is ludicrous, even with a magnum round that shoots flat enough to consider it. An ethical hunter knows his own capabilities as well as that of the tool in his hands, only takes shots that he is sure he can make, and passes up the marginal ones. When you can put up the paper plate at 500yds and hit it with at least 75% of the shots you fire at it, then maybe you can consider it. Otherwise you are only fooling yourself.

I agree completely Versifier, (well all except for the "The notion of being able to cleanly kill at that range is ludicrous, even with a magnum round that shoots flat enough to consider it." part) and that's great advice. But I do want to point out there is a whole lot of ground between the "average hunter" (pretty horrible IMHO) and competitive shooters that people can strive toward.

If one has the desire, a pie plate 75% of the time at 500 yds under conditions of his own choosing is by no means an unrealistic goal for the a regular hunter. Personally, I'd change that to near 100%. Putting in the required time at the range, reloading table, gunsmithing table, etc will get him there for pretty much anybody who wants to be there. All it takes is a little dedication and willingness to learn.

But the most important thing is this needs to be done before actually trying it in the field on game (that's where most "average hunters" screw up).

i know i'm the fng,but let me say i agree with these last 2 entrys, much, much practice. long before the "field" test.it can be practiced for it can be accomplished.to date 2 wolves in ak.and 6 elk in wy. at ranges exceeding 500 yds.set your standards high,the pie plate/100% is the level of marksmenship you must set your sights on.and the setup is critical!time and room for a followup shot if needed

A really good bullet for what you suggest is the 150 grain Sierra Gameking. Fine accuracy and excellent terminal performance. The Nosler partition though a fine bullet sometimes lacks sterling accuracy for the longer range shots.

I wasn't trying to say that clean kills are not possible at that range, but rather that even the appropriate cartridge/bullet combination in the hands of a "box a year" (if that) shooter is a pipedream. I see too many that spend the big bucks on a nice rifle and scope then think that it will magically perform in their hands with a little wishing and no practice, often not even a proper sighting in. I can't help but notice how it always seems to be the fault of the rifle when an easy 75yard shot is missed.
A local gunsmith friend buys a used rifle that "won't shoot straight" every year from the same idiot who thinks god annointed him with such a gift that he never has to prove it by practicing. I shot against him in a charity match - he with a beautiful old Remington target rifle, and me with an out-of-the-box 10/22. He never had a chance. He shot a group that looked like a shotgun pattern and blamed the rifle. I bet him the rifle I could prove him wrong the next week. He allowed me 20 shots to sight-in and get familiar with the trigger. I shot 10 X's. Then I traded the rifle for a pair of new Contender barrels from my friend. (He still has it and wins regularly with it.)
The point of my rant is not how well I can shoot, but rather how too many shoot their mouths off much better than they do their rifles, and the problem doesn't seem to be lessening.
Groups shot from a benchrest mean little or nothing in the real world with living breathing targets. Maybe some can shoot that box a year and still hit what they're aiming at offhand within 100yds, but they damn sure can't do it at 500yds with an improvised rest in the field, except possibly in their dreams.

its not practice,its passion,

solaman--glad you got set up to go to a gun club. IMO all should be lined up and heading out to the clubs as much as possible.

Now here is a few things to try.

Shoot your gun off the bench at 400 and 500 and see what you're getting for groups. That will give you a good idea of where you're starting and where you need to go.

Next I would also shoot at the same ranges off of field positions.

Killing deer at 400, 500, 600 is certainly doable. It does however require a fair bit of practice, commitment and judgement.

I do a lot of shooting at these kind of ranges and my goal is to shoot MOA out to 700.

Now as for bullets out of your 270.

If your 270 will shoot the partitions well to 500 then I would say that is a good place to start.

Do you need a premium bullet like that for deer? Nope you don't, but it sure won't hurt to use it.

Other bullets that I would try would be the 150 Sierra BT, 150 Nozler BT also there 130 and 140, and I would also give the 130 TX a good go.

It should not be very hard to get one of these bullets to shoot well in your rifle.

Next to equipment you will need a range finder, a 9-13" Harris bipod to start with.

I would also highly encourage you to shoot 1K rounds a year thru this rig each and every year.

Good luck to you

Mark D

Mark, you said a mouthful. Constructive, informative, realistic. Wish I'd said it myself.

Don't forget that out past 300yards accurate range estimation is extreemly important.

remember that a 270 140gr leaving the rifle at 3100fps
zeroed fopr 250yds is going to be 14" low @400yd and 30" low at 500yds

So ignoring and crosswind drift a bullet perfectly aimed for a shoulder shot at 500yds with a rifle zeroed for 250-300yds is going to spray dirt on the deer as the bulled missis a front hoof.

AllanD

Allen and guys-you're right shooting past 300 yards is a different game. And it requires different equipment,dedication and discipline.

I've long said that all rounds and shooters are equal to 300 yards.

IMO and IME for shooting past 300 yards there are a few things needed.

*a good quality LRF

*a good shooting rig with an excellent trigger, my fav rig is a M700 7 Mashburn Super (it's on its 8th tube), it has a Jewell in it, its in a Brown African Walnut stock (fiberglass), and it wears a Schneider 4.5 weight tube cut to 25".

*practice and tons of it, along with this comes the knowledge of when to shoot and when not to

*knowledge of wind, angles and mirrage

*trigger time, I prefer to get at least 1K rounds a year down range with my favorite long range rig. I do that and usually pick up a couple K more thru a couple of other rigs I use
99% of this is from field positions.

*optics for your rig. You're right about the drop of the rounds, past 300 yards it can get pretty dismal if you're using traditional scopes, sightings etc. A serious long range shooter has long ago figured out ways around this.

Things like using target clicks on scopes, Burris BP sytem and the Swaro TDS all work very well. Mill dots can work well once one has them sorted out.

The system I prefer is by Premier and is a series of dots put in starting at 300. And going to 700 with the dots at 100 yard increments. You give them bullet BC, ave temp, ave elevation, speed and bullet weight.

With just a bit of work with this it is not much of a problem getting very good groups to a fairly long range.

I do a ton of shooting off my belly using a cheater (bipod) and some kind of a field rear rest (usually a day pack or fanny pack). Using this sytem I've found it entirely possible to shoot MOA to 700 yards with the proper conditions.

When my wife decided to take to shooting in a fairly serious manner. I had her very quickly hitting basketball sized targets at 700 with my 7 Mashburn Super, using a 4-14 with Premier dots in it.

Now if a fella is gonna go with traditional equipment and sighting then I would get a round with a good BC, and good speed (at least 3000) and then sight the rig at 3" high to 3.25" high. With this set up a practiced shooter can make 500 yard first round hits if he/she puts in the range time with this outfit.

But, if one is gonna be for shooting past 300 in a serious manner then he/she needs to get serious about this and set up differently.

Make it your best day

Mark D