I've been shooting my 7mm quite a bit this past week, and am really enjoying it. There is something nice about shooting my 7 Mag after using only my 416 for the past 6 months, but I can't put my finger on it

Anyways, I've been thinking, what is it the 7mm Rem Mag can't do? What type of hunting is done where a 7mm Mag is considered inadequate?. I've shot 12 black bears and 2 moose with mine, and they all fall down quickly. I hear the 7mm can't kill elk? I doubt that, but I've never shot one, so I couldn't tell you. What about grizzly and brown bears? I'm sure it's been used, but with what success? How would a 7mm be not enough gun? Is it too small of diameter? Not enough penetration? Not enough energy? Not enough reach?

Please enlighten me.

The 7 Mag is fine up to but excluding Brown Bear where I want a big cross section of bullet starting a 9.3 and prefer a 40 caliber for stopping them cold....Phil Shoemaker tells me he is a confirmed 505 Gibbs lover for a pure save the client rifle.

I have not been overly impressed with the 7 mag on the few Eland I have seen it used on but they are near twice the size of a moose..

I only consider the 7 Mag better than a 270 with the 175 gr. bullet..With the lighter bullets it chronographs about the same as a 270 for all practical purposes...

Never having owned a 7mag I might be talking out of my ass here, but I have always perceived this round to be lacking frontal area and to be just too damn quick. This might be a bullet performance problem rather than an overall round problem but when I was working in a local gunstore many years ago, we always sold a bunch of 7mags right before elk season and took a bunch in on trade for 300mags after elk season. bunch of guys that recovered their wounded elk would claim that the 7mm would just zip through the animal and leave a nice small hole on each side of the critter.
I am a really big fan of heavy bullets at a moderate velocity of 2400 fps. I think the 7mag and even the 300 make great longer range plains game (prongorn and the like) cartridges but for the bigger stuff, I tend to draw the line at .30 cal. Hell, I even took a boatload of whitetail and pigs last year with the old .416 rem. : )

JMHO,

JohnTheGreek

Except for the previously mentioned brown bear plus lion, cape buff', rhino, hippo, plus maybe walrus and giraffe, the 7mm Remington Magnum (and others of the same ilk) is good for all of the world's big game. This takes in considerable territory when you think about it!

I like the cartridge very much (worthless belt and all the other so-called drawbacks that the pilgrims fuss so much over these days), and I've used it off and on since 1977. I'm going to have another one built next year, I think.......

AD

I have owned two 7 Mags and killed a few head of game with them but in spite of that I just never really liked the caliber. No logical reason but I just lean to the .30 calibers. In any case, there is certainly no reason not to take on Elk with the 7 Mag. I would prefer a premium bullet like a Partition and go heavy for caliber. For the big bears I would personaly want more gun but confess I have never killed a grizzly or any bear for that matter. If I were going grizzly hunting I would load my .338 with 250 Partitions. I use the same rifle for Elk with .225 Hornady Spire Points or 210 Partitions.

I owned a 7 Mag for quite awhile and used it on Elk, deer, and the occasional unlucky coyote.

I finally sold it due to the fact that it just destroyed whole shoulders on deer and just zipped through the elk I shot with it without expanding. Some very long tracking jobs in nasty conditions resulted even with good lung shots.
Upon a few years of reflection, I find that most of my problem was due to lousy bullet selection. This brings up a point about 7 mags, IMHO. The 7 mag, in my opinion, can be a terrific performer but is dependent on using the proper bullet for the task at hand at all times. Much more so than the .300 mags, 338 etc... on up, bullet performance is critical with this cartridge.
For all that, why mess with these problems when for all intended purposes the 7 mag really doesn't outperform the 30-06 by very much at all and bullet selection and cross section favor the .30's.

That ought to stir up a hornet's nest! - Sheister

Ray - "Eland nearly twice the size of a Moose?" Perhaps you meant nearly twice the size of an elk. If not, I need you to come up here and help me drag some of those little old moose out of the woods, because you be some kind of tough hombre!

How can a 7 mag blow up a deers shoulder and then zip right thru an elk leaving just two small holes. As with any caliber proper bullet selection is a must. If you are useing varmit bullets on deer or what 7 mag bullet well zip thru an elk with out expanding. The other complanits I normaly hear is that the 7 mag doesn't have enough zip for elk. As with any cal. proper bullet selection then proper placement well give you a very dead critter.

Reallisticaly, 'bout the only thing it can't do, is turn my crank. Never really liked it, don't know why. Growing up the only people I knew that used the "7 Mickey Mouse" (as my Dad called it) were slobs and poachers, so that probably ruined it for me.

Ray, you must have very small moose in Idaho.

Canuck

Like most calibers used for hunting, the choice of bullets is very important. Some use the 175gr for everything & then complain about small chest wounds on light game like deer. Others use 140gr NBT & complain they lack penetration for elk. With a good bullet & shot placement the 7mag is as good as is needed for hunting in the US, except for the big bears. It always amazes me that anyone could praise the .270 & condem the 7mags in the same breath. Modest recoil, flat trajectory & good terminal performance (w/ the right bullet), seems hard to beat for most big game hunting.

Myself and several friends have killed many deer elk,moose and bear with the 7mm mag and 7mm stw's.Performance with the nosler partition in 140gr and 150gr weights has been very good providing both satisfactory expansion and penetration.I get a laugh out of the people that claim that the 7mm shoots bullets so fast that they don't expand; as anyone who knows anything about bullet behavior knows that the faster a bullet is travelling the quicker it will expand.All in all the 7mm makes a very good cartridge for the person who wants to use only one gun for all their hunting and don't wish to hunt brown bears.I has all the power needed ,shoots flatter than the 30-06 and has very manageable recoil.

My guess is that there is very little on North American game that the 7mm mag wont do including the great bears but the bullet diameter is smaller than "reccomended" for them. With something like a 175 grn X bullet it is bound to get some serious penetration but may not have enough meat to keep you from dying if the placement isnt just so. Otherwise its a fine flat shooting and deadly load.

I think its more of a saftey thing nowadays then that the cartridge wont get the job done. We're whimps compared to the afforementioned pilgrims who took on the afforementioned bears with the likes of 30-06'es muzzeloaders and even spears but we generally live longer nowadays too..

[ 06-25-2002, 07:13: Message edited by: Wstrnhuntr ]

I must admit I started this topic mainly to stir the pot a little. I know the 7mm is at it's best for medium game in open country. That counts for 2/3 of all hunters needs. As for its useage on larger game, such as elk, black bears, and moose, it isn't ideal in my eyes, but is surely adequate. Shot placement and bullet construction are the two most important factors in big game shooting. If you do these two right, caliber and cartridge is really a moot point we like to argue about.

As for the 7mm Mag being only slightly superior to the 270 Win, that is actually a pretty good compliment. Too say that it is actually better than one of the best deer cartridges ever produced is a great feat. For deer, the 7mm will give you about 10 yards more of point blank range(130 gr. 270/140 gr. 7mm), and hit 300 yards with 300 more ft-lbs of energy. No deer will notice the difference. However, the 7mm is a much more decisive cartridge when loaded with premium 160 gr. or 175 gr. bullets. It has sufficient power and penetration out past 300 yards for elk and moose.

Most game escape recovery due to poor bullet performance, rather than an inadequate cartridge. No doubt bullet failure can be more prevailent in faster cartridges. Hunters should use premium, controlled espansion bullets, like the Nolser Partition, when using high velocity cartridges. They are money well spent.

As for brown bears, big guns are the rule. I have little doubt that a 175 gr. Partition from 75-150 yards, placed broadside, or quartering away through the heart/lungs, will kill the biggest brownie pretty damn quick. It is the bear that you come across hunting in thick willows, standing quartering towards at 40 yards, where you want a 338 or larger. The 7mm lacks the bullet mass to get through heavy bone(and still damage the vitals at least) for those situations. At least that is my way of thinking, coming from someone who has never seen a brown bear, just inland grizzlies.

Finally, how is the 30-06 more gun than a 7mm Mag? I think they are damn near identical. The 7mm has the advantage for deer, edging the 30-06/150 gr. by 25 yards. Same recoil on average(most '06s weigh slightly less than the average 7mm). On larger game, the 7mm's higher sectional density ( with 160 or 175 gr. bullets) nulify the 30-06's slightly larger diameter bullet. The 7mm also holds a 300 ft-lb edge at 300 yards, using factory velocity figures and Nolser Partitions in popular weights(175 gr. & 180 gr.).

I believe what "the 7mm Mag won't do" .... is impress many people who have already hunted enough with a 270 or 280 class cartridge. Infact, many will probably get tired of looking for a difference.
Canuck... that is the truth... more oftan then not 7mm Rem Mag owners really thing their cartridge is somethin' beyond its own. But dont worry... owners of 30-378s, 300RUMs, and 7mmwhateverthehellthenextbestcartridgeoftheweekis really think their cartridges will lay waist to anything on 4 feet also.
take care sf

I have a 7mm Weatherby and I'm pretty comfortable with it for most game with the exception of the animals Allen mentioned. As to it's "adequacy," I'm sure that with proper bullet placement and adequate bullet it will take a brown bear. The 175gr bulet really penetrates. But the bottom line is there are better calibers out there to take the big stuff. It reminds me of what one gunfighter said to another: "Why do you carry a Colt .45?" Becasue they don't make a Colt .46 sonny." jorge

I've taken over 100 deer and antelope with my 7 Mags, and I've taken elk and caribou with them as well. With the right bullet, it will take any game in the USA well other than maybe Brown Bears. I've had one since the 60's, and I recently rebarreled one that has been my rifle of choice for most of my hunting since then. I used it exclusively for about 15 years and never felt undergunned, and I've finished off animals many times that were shot with heavier calibers that didn't get the job done. Using 175 Gr. bullets, I have only recovered one bullet with the rest exiting.

Hmmm....what won't a 7 mag do???

Burn 1 1/4 cups of powder to give a good bullet good velocity.

(I'm on an anti-whammy boomer kick these days)

Jim

The biggest thing I never understood is how people praise the 30-06 with 180gr bullet at 2700 fps, and condem the 7Mag's 175gr bullet at 2820 fps(conservetivly). It doesn't make much sense either when you compare sectional densitys between the two. 30-06 180= .271 / 7mm 175=.310.
Does 0.024" more frontal diameter make that much of a difference??
I didn't think so. The fact is the 7mm Rem Mag (with desent hand loads around 2900 w/175) is right on the heals of the .300winny

[ 06-25-2002, 19:20: Message edited by: Mark G ]

Mark G:
2800 with a 175gr.? More like 2950fps., in a 24in. barrel and a case full of R22 it's as easy as falling off a log.

Pete, I was just using factory numbers. I know guys who push them 3,000fps with no problems. No elk or moose on the planet is going to shrug that kinda hurt off. But I agree with a lot of the others that premium bullets are more of a nessesity with this caliber.

I guess I've always viewed the 7 Mag's as neither fish nor fowl... a "tweener" I've never found a use for.

They require burning larger doses of powder in longer barrels, generating more recoil for a little flatter trajectory on deer-sized stuff, yet don't kill game of that size any better than "standards" like the 270 and 280. The 7 Mag's also don't have the frontal area or bullet weight (200 gr +) of the 30 and over magnums.

Still, one of my closest friends and elk-hunting partner's has used a battered M700 7mm Rem Mag (original BDL from the early sixties with a blued-stainless bbl) as his one-rifle-rifle since 1970 when he bought it used (he WANTED a 270 but couldn't locate one). He uses it on everything from coyotes and pronghorn to deer and elk. He's deadly with it and handloads it with160 Speers only. He's also packed that rifle as a back-up while guiding elk hunters in grizzly country for 30+ seasons.

Like stubblejumper said, it's probably nearly "ideal" as a one-rifle Western rig. I like two better... 270 and 338 WM.

BA

It sure is popular with Texas hunters. Does that make it bad?

7mm has always been one of my favorites.

On any given day I would take a 7mm instead of a 270. 7X61 super has 281 different types of game. We have something to catch up on

A 7mm in combination with a 338 or 9,3 ,375 is a battery for most animals this planet has to offer
I have sold my 270 to get a 280

/ JOHAN

I was always disapointed that the 7mm being a magnum had such ordinary effect on game. It's just in the class with ordinary cartridges like the .308 Win and 30/06. But it will shoot a little bit flatter. Not much though.

The late Les Bowman felt that it was the perfect round for the Western hunter who did not shoot a lot. He found that the worst shooting was done by the .300 magnums. I tend to agree with him however some here shoot a lot and can handle the .300's.

I know that the .358 caliber has a greater effect than the 7mm on game. Maybe this crossover occurs at .338"

I've yet to see the 7mm mag out perform the .270/.280/.30/06 class of cartridges on big game. Hell most of the time the 7 mag is only loaded three to five grains heavier then the latter trio of cartridges and the yield in extra velocity is a joke. According to a couple of self proclaimed shooting experts that I've talked to.When the 7mag is sighted in at 100 yards you'll only have a 12 inch drop at 500 yards.It's a regular lazer capable of super hero type shit.

Well we have used the 7mm mag around hear some in the past 25 years. I will say that if one shoots a deer with a 140 grn bullet going 3150 fps, it will tear up a shoulder if you place the bullet there, will also cause the meat to be a little bloodshot around the entry or exist wound too. One of the reasons we chose not to use anything lighter than a 160 grn in the rifle and stay the hell off the shoulders period on meat animals for the freezer.

I or the wife never had a 7mm bullet just ZIP right on through an elk without leaving a good wound channel. Never did do a Texas Heart Shot on one of the elk with it, common sense tells a hunter not too. Now we did use a heavy bullet in the form of a Nosler partition with weight being 175 grains. It keeps the Zipping Affect down quite a bit on an elk they tell me.

Juneau,
I shot and eland two years ago that tipped the scales at 2773, that's about twice the size of our Shiras Moose and perhaps an average Alaskan is it not??

Ray, That is not exactly a fair comparison. 2773lbs is not an average Eland! I thought the ones Don G and I shot were pretty darn large, and they weighed (field dressed and skinned) around 400 kg, which equates to about 900 lbs (both were wieghed BTW). They might have wieghed around 2000 lbs on the hoof.

Big mature bull moose (not record book but nice) that we have shot around my Dad's place, have weighed up to about 850 lbs at the butcher shop (field dressed and skinned). That's only 50 lbs less than the comparable big mature eland.

Shiras moose around here, which can't be too different from Idaho, typically weigh about 650 to 700 lbs field dressed.

Canuck

I have owned a 7mm rem mag, then a .270 and now a 30/06. I have found the 30/06 to be supurb killer and I like it better than the other two calibres.

The 7mm shot a little flatter but to normal shooting ranges say out to 300 yards there is probably little between them, only I like frontal area and the 30/06 has a little more of it.

Point is with the proper weight bullet and proper type bullet, there is really NOTHING that the 7mm magnum can't do in SPADES!!!

Ray,

As Canuck pointed out, it's not quite kosher to compare an average speciman of a species with a giant speciman of another species. Last year I was fortunate enough to take a "mature bull" Eland in Namibia, and a "mature bull" moose in interior Alaska. I could only weigh the boned out meat of the moose, but with standard extrapolation, I'd say that these two animails weighed within 100 lbs. of each other. (Actually, since the Eland came out of the bush in the bed of a Toyota pickup, and the Moose came out of the bush in many trips on my back, - I think Moose are closer in weight to Elephants! )

A 2773 lb Eland? Where were you, Jurassic Park? That's almost one tird larger than even the advertised weight of a HUGE mature eland. Sorry, but I'll have to think about that one!

Where the 06 outshines the 7mag is with 200 and 220 grain bullets pushed to around 2600 fps for elk and moose in timber. You also have a host of bullets designed for the 30-30 that can be pushed to their velocity potential easily and you get light recoil (good treestand loads). Then cast bullets are far easier to get to perform from a 30-06 than a 7mag. The 06 also beats the 7 in magazine capacity so those rounds don't have to rattle around in your pockets and the rifles are generally lighter.