Howdy, folks. My first deer to be killed using a Hornady SST went down last weekend. I was using a .270 Win. shooting the 130-gr. SST in front of 57 grains of Re-22. The deer..about 120 yards away.
Now, no complaints, because this deer was D-E-A-D, dead the second I shot it through the onside shoulder. However, there was no exit wound. I like exit wounds...I'm goofy that way. My question stems from the fact that I've read and heard all about the toughness of these bullets (complete pass-through on both shoulders of a feral hog. etc.). Now, these stories centered around .308" caliber SST's. So, I'm wondering, is the .277" model not the same tough cutomer?
What do y'all think?
RSY
Posts: 785 | Location: Central Texas | Registered: 01 October 2001
When replying to RSY about the .277 SST, I'd like to ask for comments on the .308 SST as well. Are they better performers than the Nosler Ballistic Tip?? - I've heard good & bad, as usual. Please advise.
cwilson
Posts: 715 | Location: Boswell, PA, USA | Registered: 20 December 2001
cwilson, I used a 150gr SST out of my 30-06 this year to take a buck. The shot was about 75-80 yards. I double lunged him and he went about 40 yards before performing a double gainer and piling up. The entry hole was about 30 cal and the exit hole was about 3/4 of an in. I was real pleased with the results and will try 140gr SST's in my 7x57 this coming year. Shoot straight! Ahab
------------------ Lead, Follow or get out of the way!
RSY, I am like you, I want two holes. I am sorry I don't have experience with the SST but I do have experience with a 130gr Nosler Partition out of my .270. I ALWAYS get those two holes on deer and it too kills 'em D-E-A-D.
Posts: 400 | Location: Murfreesboro,TN,USA | Registered: 16 January 2002
You will rarely get two holes from from the lighter and smaller Hornady bullets. They are traveling too fast for the bullet to stay intact. You need to go with a more premium bullet in the 130gr. I preferred to shoot 130gr Barnes XBT in my 270.
I also shot the 130gr Nosler ballistc tips and never got two exit holes. The only animal I shoot is primarily whitetail deer. And they don't really get that big around here.
Not to sound like a smart ass, but you got no exit wound because the bullet expended all its energy before it exited. No experience with the SST. I have used 9.3mm 250 grain Nosler BT with very good results on deer and boar. It seems to me that there are more negative comments about the Nosler BT than the Hornady SST.
Personally, I feel that the exit wound is overrated from the perspective of fatality. An exit wound makes tracking easier, but as long as the bullet stayed together long enough to tear up something vital it matters not if the blood stays in the animal or pours out on the ground.
Todd E
[This message has been edited by Todd E (edited 01-19-2002).]
You have three things working against seeing an exit wound:
1. As rugerman pointed out a light bullet for the caliber will not penitrate as far as a heavy for caliber bullet.
2. The bullet construction like the SST, Nosler BT, and Sierra GameKings are designed to open quickly (explosively). Nosler Partitions, Swift A-Frames, BarnesX are designed for controlled expansion. If you want penetration, you must select a bullet that will hold together.
3. Shot placement is paramount. Attempting to punch through two shoulders is substantially more difficult than a broadside heart/lung shot. If you want an exit wound, hit them in the ribs broadside.
Posts: 10780 | Location: Test Tube | Registered: 27 February 2001
Did you find the bullet in the carcass? Was it intact, in pieces, or ??? Did it pass through the onside shoulder and end up just under the hide on the off-side? Inquiring minds want to know!!
quote:Originally posted by Zero Drift: You have three things working against seeing an exit wound:
[QUOTE][B]1. As rugerman pointed out a light bullet for the caliber will not penitrate as far as a heavy for caliber bullet.
Agreed...but since when is 130-gr. light for the .270 Win.?
quote:2. The bullet construction like the SST, Nosler BT, and Sierra GameKings are designed to open quickly (explosively). Nosler Partitions, Swift A-Frames, BarnesX are designed for controlled expansion. If you want penetration, you must select a bullet that will hold together.
I agree. That's why I was interested in the SST. It has been touted as a controlled expansion bullet, with all the benefits of a polymer tip.
quote:3. Shot placement is paramount. Attempting to punch through two shoulders is substantially more difficult than a broadside heart/lung shot. If you want an exit wound, hit them in the ribs broadside.
Again, agreed. But when you hear/read about people putting shots through both shoulders of a pig or downing Angus bulls with them,it'd seem like you could assume it'd do the same to a deer.
BigIron:
I recovered nothing of the bullet. I was in a bit of a hurry to skin and quarter it, so I didn't look that hard. There was no visible entrance wound, either. Inside, it looked like she had inhaled a hand grenade, that's the best way I can describe it.
RSY
Posts: 785 | Location: Central Texas | Registered: 01 October 2001
Here we go again!!!! These arguments are amusing and annoying at the same time but I'm jumping in on this one. Many posts don't give the details that would effect the outcome. I've seen postings ( mentioned above) that Sierra Gamekings also fall apart but that has not been my experience in my rifles and situations. A 130 gr. is light when bullets are available well above it. Shooting into the shoulder can yeild very different results even with the same round because of the very differrent bone/angles that may be hit. A bullet dirrectly hitting the joint will act completely differrent than if it hits only the clavicle. If you insist on shooting an animal in the bones because you are not wanting to track it then use a heavy for caliber bullet and/or premium grade bullets. You may even opt for a larger caliber as the .277 is a medium/small caliber and there are much bigger cannons available. If the insides are mush and you can't find your animal then the problem lies not with the bullet but in your tracking ability or motivation.
A hunter in CT lost a buck that was hit with that bullet. He almost lost another in the same swamp. A third died on the spot. No blood trail was the problem. I bet I could find that thread but there is no argument about this.
If you really want exit holes, you need to chose the bullet accordingly.
As others have said, extra weight will help, all else being equal.
But bullet construction is the biggest factor on something the size of a deer.
I've used 130's on my last few deer and antelope and have always gotten exit holes. Big ones at that. 30 cal XBT even when launched at 3663 fps--it holds together and blasts a big hole through both shoulders. In your rifle they wouldn't make quite as big a hole, but it would be adequate and they most definately would exit with a shoulder shot.
Posts: 920 | Location: Mukilteo, WA | Registered: 29 November 2001
I have thought about this and I am not sure how to word it but here goes, if you are tracking a deer you have made a poor choice somewhere along the way, either you are asking to much of the bullet you chose or you have made a bad shot. Any bullet or shot angle that destroys the heart and or lungs will not require tracking, exit wound or no exit wound the deer will not run over 100 yards or so and that is hardly what I would concider tracking distance even in the mountains of West Virginia.
Rugerman You have got to be kidding, 50 to 100 yards, I can throw a rock further than that. You are trying to say if a deer runs 50 to 100 yards through a thicket then you have to track it!
About the long uphill drag, Been there, done that, some past dead but still moving down hill on dry leaves I have shot many deer broadside and have found that if the heart and or lungs are destroyed then weather or not you have an exit wound makes very little difference as to how far a deer will run, in fact they have'nt ran as far in many instances with a bullet that does'nt leave an exit hole but does more damage internally. I am only trying to say that if the caliber and bullet you use does not give complete pass through on a broadside shot but does destroy everything in its path internaly that does not mean that particular combination is not working, just that it is probably limited to broadside shots at best.
I have seen a lot of places where 100 yards required a lot of tracking skill and many an animal has been lost,without a blood trail...Some areas are so thick as to prevent anything but crawling and thats near impossible. some areas are no more than a series of little tunnels in thorn bush or grass, and to say otherwise tells me someone is talking when they should be listening...
Ray, We are talking about deer here, I have hunted just what you described (honestly crawling on my hands and knees) and to tell me that anyone can loose a deer running 100 yards through thorn bushes or thick grass tells me that they are either very hard of hearing or hunting a busy highway because a well shot deer tends to make alot of noise regardless of its escape route. I agree that when culling or hunting corn feeder deer there may be a bunch of deer leaving at the sound of a gun but when hunting during the rut in most places there is very seldom more than two at a time and most of the time one lone buck.
I have never lost a deer due to thorn bushes. Although I have come close to losing some clothing going through the damned stuff! To me the worse scenario is one running through standing corn, while not leaving a blood trail.
Shoot em thru the heart/lungs, you get 2 holes and they only go up to 100 yards. Shoot a heavier bullet to hit em in the shoulders and if your off a bit- you still get 2 holes. I shoot 140 Nosler BT in my 280 and have had 3 drop on the spot and 7 run an average of 30 yards. All shot in the lower lung/heart area. I personally like to track- I am a diehard bowhunter and have many buddies that call me to help them track bow-shot bucks. The thrill of following a great blood trail in the dark by lantern light- it doesn't get any better. Shoot straight- and the reward won't be far away.
Failure to exit on a large buck with a double shoulder shot is hardly a fair judgement on a non bonded polymer tipped expansion promoted 130gr bullet. If it had exited under such conditions you can bet your bottom dollar that had you hit the liver you would have posted 'No expansion....why???'
All these things are a compromise and I personaly would venture that coming to rest under the skin on the far side of a double shoulder shot is THE perfect compromise!
Well lung shot fallow can go for substantialy longer than 100 yards and even 100yards in the woods is a long way if you don't know which way it went or if it changed direction out of sight.
Posts: 2258 | Location: Bristol, England | Registered: 24 April 2001
A heart shot deer that has run 100+ yards in the thick bramble/ briar can take some finding without a dog, especially when the light starts to go.
This is one reason blood trailing deer dogs are so popular in Europe, where the average number of deer killed per hunter per year is probably much greater than in the US.
------------------ Regards
Richard
Posts: 1978 | Location: UK and UAE | Registered: 19 March 2001
I really don't like to have to track a animal. I do it but I am so nervous about it being wounded or lost. But it's part of hunting. That hunter in the swamp in CT may have had a dog at the farmhouse but many don't want their bird dogs on a deer scent.
Deer can disapear so easy. A deer on the ground is hard to see when there is no snow.
I read the post about "deer dogs" in the UK and in fact I talked to a cull hunter in Bath, England who said just what deerdogs did. But here in the USA it's just not practical for most of us.
I do most of my deer hunting in my home state of Pennsylvania, where there are literally three hunters for every deer harvested. This means that anchoring an animal in its tracks is desirable. Many mortally wounded deer have been lost to another hunter 100 - 150 yards away. for this reason, I generally try shot placement to break at least one shoulder. The buck I shot this past season was quartering toward me, I shot him at the intersection of the neck/near shoulder with a 180 grain Spire Pt. Remington factory (Core-Lokt)Bullet from a .308 win. The deer hit the ground dead at the shot. The bullet was recovered at just under the hide at the far side shoulder. The bullet weighed 154 grains. I wonder what the performance of an SST bullet at similar velocity would have been? Any ideas or past experience would be welcome.
cwilson
Posts: 715 | Location: Boswell, PA, USA | Registered: 20 December 2001
This year I was hunting over a cutover in a pine tree about 25 feet up. I was about 135 yards from the edge where deer came out . The shot was about 100 yards. I shot and the deer went down but got up and ran into the woods.I could not hear the deer running in the woods. When I got to the woods I found his tracks and started crawling through the thick brush. The shot was a lung shot and passed completely through the animal. I am very thankful for the blood trail on the ground and on the side of the small trees. Without this blood trail I would have had a hard time tracking the deer 100 yards through the brush.
But on the other hand if I would have made a little better shot I would have been better off.
I have shot many deer broadside and have found that if the heart and or lungs are destroyed then weather or not you have an exit wound makes very little difference as to how far a deer will run, in fact they have'nt ran as far in many instances with a bullet that does'nt leave an exit hole but does more damage internally. I am only trying to say that if the caliber and bullet you use does not give complete pass through on a broadside shot but does destroy everything in its path internaly that does not mean that particular combination is not working, just that it is probably limited to broadside shots at best.
