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I plucked these from under the hide on the offside of a Bull Elk today. I found it neat that all bullets flung at him were recovered and all in various forms.  | ||
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Thanks for the pics, were all the shots broadside? funny, we've yet to reover a ttsx and you had 3 in one animal. What MV was your rifle shooting these at? I've been shooting (only paper so far) 150 TTSx's out of mt 280AI @3050fps. | |||
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No teasing Chuck...more details... angle of shots?...how did the animal react to the three shots? Mike Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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All three shots were pretty much broadside. I hit him with the first one just before he hit the timber, knew I hit him so the other two were hail mary's through some awful thick stuff. Miraculously both of them hit him good as well. He went about 40-50yds but didn't show much reaction to the hits other than getting progressively slower. | |||
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The middle one shedding the petals would really bother me. Free men should not be subjected to permits, paperwork and taxation in order to carry any firearm. NRA Benefactor | |||
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30378, Why doe sthe middle on eshedding petals bother you? The reason I ask is it is then performign much like a nosler partition does...losing the front with the remainder driving through. Mike Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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I've shot quite a few elk with parttitions. They may lose the lead part of the front end which is quite soft but I have never seen a partition shed its petals thus allowing a bigger wound channel. I am also wondering why the middle one in losing the petals did not blow on through? The one on the right looks great but of those 3 bullets, I would prefer more consistency in expansion. Free men should not be subjected to permits, paperwork and taxation in order to carry any firearm. NRA Benefactor | |||
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Perhaps the middle one was one of the two hail mary shots taken after the bull entered the timber. May of aready been deformed before striking the bull. Agree, don't recover many TSXs. Then get three from the same animal, hard to figure. Phil NRA Life Member since 1976 philny1@zoominternet.net 877 485-6270 Visa/MC accepted , plus 3% We have to save the Earth, only planet with beer!! "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading". Thomas Jefferson | |||
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Yeah, that's what I was gonna ask, what did it run into before it ran ino the target animal. AD If I provoke you into thinking then I've done my good deed for the day! Those who manage to provoke themselves into other activities have only themselves to blame. *We Band of 45-70er's* 35 year Life Member of the NRA NRA Life Member since 1984 | |||
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Maybe this elk was not really an elk...may be it was a blue wildebeest because we know hide, muscle, bone, and organs are much tougher in Africa than in North America. Mike Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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That is good info to see Chuck. Thanks for the share. I've shot several different critters with the TTSX, and the one issue I am starting to have concern about is lack of expansion, which is the whole reason to go to the tipped version for me. I have shot a couple large deer (250 lb zone) and several average GA whitetails, and a big KY doe, which all had the same result--very difficult if able to find at all entries, and exits very small, one about the size of a nickel being the largest. Ranges were from as close as 50 yards on one of the big boys, to as far as 250ish on a couple of the 100 lb GA does. Same results on all basically--the up close shots were surely being driven fast enough to open them up..... The internal damage on these deer varied quite a bit, which concerns me as well. Several were liquified inside, which I like to see, but several had very minimal disruption to the innards, but these did have a good deal of blood in the cavity. One of the 100 lb does ran off about 50 yards, she was completely unaware I was in the woods--so not an alert animal, just FYI. Two other deer made it 60 yards or so, and were both hit dead on the shoulder! The other deer didn't go far, both of the big boys were DRT's. I really like the accuracy I am getting from the TTSX's, similar to the TSX's for me, and I like the 130 GR in 308 cal out of my 308- Something about em just makes me wonder though... | |||
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Fish30114 wrote: " I've shot several different critters with the TTSX, and the one issue I am starting to have concern about is lack of expansion, which is the whole reason to go to the tipped version for me." Actually, Barnes did an about-face with the TTSX, and the tipped version is actually STOUTER than the plain TSX. Barnes now notes that the TSX requires a minimum of 1800 fps at impact to initiate any expansion while the TTSX requires a minimum of 2000 fps. My own testing indicates they actually need a bit more than those figures but that the TTSX is definitely a stouter bullet than the TSX. Bobby Μολὼν λαβέ The most important thing in life is not what we do but how and why we do it. - Nana Mouskouri | |||
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     Bobby Μολὼν λαβέ The most important thing in life is not what we do but how and why we do it. - Nana Mouskouri | |||
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cool stuff Bobby Mike Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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There are times when I despair of the internet and AR and there are times when I remember what an amazing asset it is. Credit where credit is due - I think Bobby should get some sort of recognition for the wonderful research that he has done that is presented in such an informative way with such incredible quality pictures that truly do paint so many words. This stuff is better than what is available for the paying magazine purchaser and an incredible resource. It's saved me from some expensive mistakes and deserves some recognition. | |||
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\ Please, let's not give the boy big head! All kidding aside, I stopped using the TTSX's and went back to the TSX's and Accubonds in my rifles because of Bobby's data. I know how meticulous he is. Once again, well done Bobby! Bob There is room for all of God's creatures....right next to the mashed potatoes. http://texaspredatorposse.ipbhost.com/   | |||
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So very true... But one thing I keep wondering: how does Bobby get his bullets as clean and as shiny for the photo sessions??? The bullets I recover from game look somewhat grimy, and I normally have to pick the blood and the guts out of them by hand...  So tell us Bobby, do you throw your recovered bullets in the dishwasher, or what?? - mike ********************* The rifle is a noble weapon... It entices its bearer into primeval forests, into mountains and deserts untenanted by man. - Horace Kephart | |||
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I second the kudo's for Bobby, he is a great asset to AR! I had not absorbed that the TTSX was a stouter bullet than the TSX.....I had thought they put a bit bigger cavity and the tip to aid expansion, but I do remember Gerard from GS bullets stating that the tip was there simply to help BC once. I just don't know how much the things are really opening up as I never recover one...I had done a thread once where I showed that the tips on many of the sub 338 Cal TSX's were ocluded with copper often, and that is what I attribute some of the penciling through results of the TSX to. (I now drill out the tips on all of the TSX's I shoot) I like lots of the attributes of the TTSX, accurate for me, all copper which I think could be good to have as at least an alternative--think Communistfornia-- but there just seems to be a lot of evidence that they can pencil through and leave a questionable killing effort as a result.... BTW Bobby, I wonder as Mike does, how do you clean em up--I was guessing ultrasonic cleaner?? | |||
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Dang that's funny. I was going to suggest that it was a released impala. I love your signature as well. All true and hilarious. | |||
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Chuck Nelson ----- Thanks for the pictures of the bullets, they reveal good information. I once killed a Bull in Colorado at 300 yards with a 225 grain Barnes XLC bullet from a .340 WBY at 3100 fps. This was the blue coated bullet to those that don't remember them. He was standing broadside to me and the angle was a steep and it was snowing lightly, making visability poor. He was standing with his right side to me when I fired. When the snow settled from the shot, he was standing with his left side to me in the same place, I fired again, holding on the shoulder, the same hold as the first shot. Down he went in his tracks, with his nice five point rack sticking up and clearly visable from below. To make a long story short an hour later after the difficult climb up, my shots were revealed plainly. The two bullet holes and entrance holes were within 3 inchs of each other on opposite sides of both shoulders, both clean pass throughs. It was well after dark when I got the gutting job done, I then packed the body cavity with snow and left him in the mountain to be recovered the next day with the help of my son and hunting buddy. The temperature that day was -22 at sunup and the high was -2, therefore I had no fear of spoilage. The next day cutting up the Bull for transport down the mountain, we found two blue petals of the bullets at each exit hole. My hunting buddy said, WOW the bullet failed, the petals came off. We had a lenghty discussion right there on the mountain, with my son and I disagreeing at to bullet failure. My son and I were of the opinion that the bullets did their job perfectly, ripping and spinning hot projectiles going through the animal making a huge wound channel then still having enough force to make an exit hole and provide more bleeding. We found two sprays of blood on the off side of the Bull to where I did the shooting from below on the bushs behind the Bull. You may draw your own conclusion, as for me I was and still am proud of those bullets performances. Someone here said they were disappointed in the petals missing on the middle bullet, to me that is not evidence of bullet failure, but good performance. Think of the damage done by the hot spinning bullet before the petals were ripped off the bullet. I rest my case. Good shooting. phurley | |||
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I think it was an Elk.   | |||
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yep,you're right thats an elk! and a dang nice one too. just for the sake of the guess 338-340? anybody else? | |||
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Great-looking elk, and good shooting. | |||
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Now that's an elk... Mike Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Very nice elk indeed!!! Congrats!!! Graybird "Make no mistake, it's not revenge he's after ... it's the reckoning." | |||
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The minimum velocity for expansion is different with different bullets in the TTSX bullets. Example the 225 grain TTSX in 338 Caliber minimum required velocity to expand is 1400 PS, this is lower than the TSX version of the same bullet. _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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emphasis by Fish Ahhhh, this is where it gets interesting. You would think Barnes, or any other manufacturer for that matter would just make the bullets of a certain type perform the same way, i.e. if the TTSX opens at lower velocity than the TSX, make it that way across the board. To have one caliber be stouter and one not is confusing at best....geeeeeeez!  | |||
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Thanks for the post. It's about time someone brought the tendency of shedding Barnes X petals to light. I simply do not believe the advertising claims for the bullet weight retention. After recovering a half dozen or so on African critters, we started calling the Barnes "Y" bullets. Looks like you have a Barnes "I" lump there. I have 2 of those "I"s as well. It's not a matter of the bullets failure to expand. The petals, and in some cases the front of the bullet as well, shave off. Seems to happen more than half the time. I thought about sending those bullets into Barnes, but hey..... Posting will probably get more results. "You only gotta do one thing well to make it in this world" - J Joplin | |||
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Maybe designed with 338-'06 velocities in mind? | |||
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I always like to see and hear others real world experiences, with any bullet. I've been using Barnes X, XLC, or TSX since about 1992, and have only recovered one Barnes. To see 3 from one animal and from close range yet, is a big surprise to me. | |||
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I fully understand the thought process of thinking missing petals is a bad thing but you should think about where in the penetration process they are sheared off. If you shoot an animal at close range and the velocities are still very high, and we are documenting 15 to 20 inches penetration etc. I think we have to assume that while the bullet is traveling at its highest velocity and doing the most damage that the petals are there and working... I'd guess for the first 10 to 14 inches etc. So the wound channels for the first two thirds of the length of the wound channel I bet are increased in size by the mushrooming of the petals What the bullet does during the last third of the journey after it has lost most of its velocity is of little consequence to me. In fact if we want a pass through to leave more blood, the smaller bullet while traveling slowly for the last third will penetrate a lot farther and have a better chance of an exit hole. I myself, have switched to 110gr TTSX in 7mm Rem Mag this year for deer at over 3500 muzzle velocity. I doubt there are any petals on my exiting bullets but I know there is a lot of damage where needed. | |||
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I don't care if the petals are shed an full wadcuuter(cylinder) will continue to penetrate and do a lot od damage. GS Custom wants thier petals to blow off. Only here in AMerica is that thought of as a bad thing _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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Thank you for the pictures and discussion. I would have to agree that something may be peculiar about the flight-history of the middle bullet in the original posting. It is fortunate that he recovered the bullet at all, and that it made its way to the elk. I've had a big 416 TSX go thru a paper target sideways when having hit a little something that was otherwise invisible. but it got there. And in hunting I've had a NoslerP with a blown front end whose back end came halfway out, probably also a 'tumble'. But having said the above, the sheared petals don't look like a 'tumble'. It's kind of hard to explain. Sheared-off and stayed in the animal. At least the animal was recovered. Some testing ("Shooting Holes in Wounding theories") has suggested 2700 fps as the critical threshhold for petal shearing, but even that isn't a fixed datum. The paper ("Shooting Holes...") suggests that larger calibres, 338 and up may have less of that phenomenon. Anyone with more anecdotes to share? +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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I never had a bullet fail that has killed animal in a resonable distance. Heart lung shots 100 yards or so. Shoulder shots that don't hit the spine might or might not drop them on the spot depending if one or both shoulders are broken. Spine neck shots should be DRT. If they kill the critter and they don't go farther then one would expect for the shot placement. The bullet worked. A bullet failure to me would be shooting them in the shoulder and having them run off never to be found or halving to chase them a long ways. Or spineing them and having them run off. Or a soild chest shot that doesn't get past the ribs into the lungs heart ect. These would be bullet failures. Looks like they did just what the were surpose to do expand the nose drive through the vitals and kill the elk. I expect heart lung shot critters to run some. I don't expect spine neck head shot critters to run at all. | |||
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At least the animal was recovered? | |||
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Hey Chuck, GREAT Bull man... Congrat's! The X's look like they worked perfectly, as advertised. Course the guys that use them because they think they'll exit on big bulls just haven't shot many big bulls, eh?! | |||
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Just a note on Brad's comment. I recovered 180 gr 30 cal Winchester X type bullet from my bull I took with my 338-06 couple of years ago. It had perfect expansion but did not exit. Wish I knew who it belonged to. | |||
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Thanks Brad! Between myself, dad, brother, and best friend (cousin) we have recovered allot of them. In fact yesterday we butchered Elk then sat around boiling skulls in the barn talking on the subject. We figure that anything bigger than a jack rabbit sized whitetail might hold one inside on occasion and if you actually shoot things with them you recover a few. | |||
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BUT CHUCK! Haven't you read all the internet-experts reasons for picking the TSX? Remember, it will exit far more often than a Nosler Partition, making two holes and a better blood trail! And, of course, they never fail, even when they don't open! | |||
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Brad, I agree. It seems if you hit an animal with a TSX and it doesn't open up the velocity was too low (either from too slow muzzle velocity or too long a range) and if the petals come off it was moving too fast when it hit bone. Aren't these the exact problems that lead us away from cup and core bullets to the Nosler Partitions and premium bullet designs 40 years ago? Chuck Regards, Chuck "There's a saying in prize fighting, everyone's got a plan until they get hit" Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness" | |||
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