I'm about 10 years behind times when it comes to new technology (my youngest son would say more like 20 years...okay, so I just got my first ATM card).

I'm thinking seriously of getting an illuminated reticle scope to mount on a work-horse 30-06. Something of the 3-9 variety and in the $200-$500 range.

I don't like drama, time vampires, and crap that doesn't work when I need it to. What such scope has proven itself with you?

there's lots out there to chose from. the only thing i would warn about is to get one with just a small dot illuminated in the center. the ones that illuminate the entire crosshair or even half, of it are just to bright, that wrecks the night vision

Hey Matt, I've been Testing three Illuminated Scopes, a buddy is testing two, and a third buddy is testing one.

I have a very inexpensive 6-24x Optronics, a 3-9x Millett Buck Lightning and a BIG 4-16x Millett Tacticle scope. The guy Testing two has an Ospray(SP?) and a Leupold. And the last buddy has a relatively new 4-12x Vortex.

The Optronics has the problem Butch mentioned - too Bright on the Lowest Setting. It can cause your eye to reduce the Pupil size which prevents you from seeing as well, in the dark, as when it is open. It will end up on my Squirrel rifle where the Red + can easily be seen against leaves.

Both the Millett Buck Lightning and the BIG Millett Tactical(a very HEAVY scope) have the Lowest Intensity setting just right. The Buck Lightning is a Non-AO scope and the Tactical has a Side Objective Focus. These compare respectively with the older Leupold VariX-II and VariX-III as far as clarity in Twilight.
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The buddy with two, has an Ospray(SP?) which he has not used much and a Leupold. He was crying about the cost of the Batteries for the Leupold and that they could not be bought locally. He eventually found some on-line and split an order of them with another guy. All of mine and the Ospray use a standard 2032 which can be found anywhere.
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The third one is a Vortex with a small Red Dot in the center of regular Crosshairs. I think it cost him $149 and is a real bargain. It does not have AO and I did not get to check it in Twilight against the Milletts. He has it on a 30-06 and it is taking that level of Recoil with no problems at all. It uses a 2032.

An additional Illuminated scope worth considering is a Bushnell. I got to handle one and it has both Red + and Green + Illumination selection. The " + " portion that Illuminates is larger than on any of the other Illuminated scopes we have. But it does not Illuminate all the way to the outside edge of the scope as some do. None of ours do that.

The Vortex "might" be the best deal we are Testing, but I've not checked it against the Milletts in Twilight.

Best of luck to you.

Thank you Hot Core, that is exactly the type of info I'm seeking.

I'm also giving considerable thought to the Bushnell Firefly and/or spending the extra bucks for a Trijicon. Me and anything that relies on batteries seem to have issues.

Hey Matt, Back when Leupold first offered them, I got all interested in having some of mine upgraded. I realized all they needed to do was change the Eyepiece and was willing to pay for it. Got ahold of Leupold and they said they had "no intention" of offering the Illumination feature as an Upgrade. Told me to just sell some of mine and buy new ones.

I'd done a lot of business with Leupold until then. Even sent a whole bunch back for the HEAVY Duplex Reticle, but after that conversation I've not bought another one.

The best part of all is there are a whole lot of excellent scopes on the market which are much less expensive than Leupold and the really cheap Optronics even has a better Warranty. If a person somehow manages to run-over their Optronics with their truck, you can send the remains back and they will send you a new one. Try that with Leupold.
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That Bushnell Firefly does look interesting. I think I remember someone mentioning getting one(or two) on one of these Boards. You might do a "Find" at the top and see if you can determine who it was and send them a PM to see how well they like it.

Of course, it would start out relatively Bright and then begin Fading. All speculation on my part, but I wonder if the Brite is too brite when first charged-up with the flashlight?
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As an interesting comment from various local Gun Shops, I asked 26(I think) of them what was the "least returned Scope" of all the different kinds they sell. Bushnell was what they all claimed to have the fewest returns.

One Shop in Indiana told me the Leepers seemed to all break between the scope counter and the cash register. The just about all came back.
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I understand about your Battery concern. Lots of things can affect how long a Battery will operate. My buddy with the Leupold accidently left his on overnight "twice" and it is still working. I've yet to change a 2032, but then I'm not out in miserable cold(below 40deg) weather either.

I believe the Trick is to get one that if the Battery was to go down, the remaining Crosshairs would be HEAVY enough to still be able to Hunt. The Milletts and the Vortex would meet that requirement.

Oh yes, most have an OFF position and about 11-intensity levels(basically a 12-position switch). The Bushnell that does both Red and Green has 2-OFFs and 5-intensity levels on each color. Haven't used it in Twilight and do not know if it gets Low enough or not.

Whatever you get, either bring this thread back to life and let us know what you think of it, or PM me. I'm real interested in any comments about Illuminated Reticles.

Best of luck with your choice.

I have 2 Trijicons and feel that they are the best value for your illuminated dollar availalbe.

The 2.5-10x56 is very good, not quite German $2000 quality but it is all of $750 quality it cost.

The 5-20x50 is also good, but the other one is better.

They also make a 3-9 and I think it is about 500.

That bushnell firefly might be good too, heard good things.

I would suggest spending the extra approx. $200 bucks and go with the Trijicon. I have a 3 X 9 on a 9.3 X 62 a buddy has the same on a .375 Ruger and another friend has the 1 X 4 on a .416 Rigby. There have been no problems with recoil damage with these caliburs so should be no problem at all on 30-06.

No batteries required. This solves some of the problems you guys are having and saves a lot of additional cost as well. In total darkness the tritium triangle or dot is well sufficient for practical shooting. Took a Leopard after dark with mine. In bright daylight you can reduce the amount of light coming in thus custom tuning the brightness with just a twist of the ring.

Clarity is very good, light transfer is excellent and the customer service is up to snuff as well. If you check around you will find Trijicon makes a lot of real quality stuff for the military and it trickles down for us hunter/shooters as well.

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

How many years does the Tritium Glow? Once it dims, what is the cost to have it Refreshed?

Million years, you recharge it with a flashlight or the sun.

I thought Tritium glowed without having a Light shined on it. That is apparently what makes the scope so expensive.

Which is different from the Firefly scopes which do need the flashlight.

i have a couple of fireflys - don't care much for them.i think my favorite is microdot, but you really have to look to find them.

Go to the optics forum and ask for Doug from Camera Land New York. He has always been straight with me on quality and he is a hunter himself so he has used the stuff he sells.

Perry

I've used a bunch of "Micro-Dot" brand scopes. Extremely small dot that works well on relatively long distance shots. Some of the dots are so big they cover a large part of the vitals at even reasonable ranges.

I have two rifles with Fire-Fly illuminated reticles. GREAT scope. No batteries, you shine your flashlight into the objective at 4pm during deer season and it will easily last until dark. And the nice thing about it in the afternoon is the reticle glows less and less, kind of like it is adjusting for the ever darkening woods.........Doesn't do this in the AM...

My next adventure with illuminated reticles will be the Burris 30mm Euro Diamond in 1.5-6X. This looks like a great scope, but pricy....

D99 - Sorry Bud but you can't recharge a tritium triangle or dot with the sun or any other kind of light. It's a radioactive product that will grow weaker with time.

Hot Core - As I said it will diminish after time, was told in the neighborhood of 10plus years. I'll try and check with my Trij rep and get some idea what the approx cost factor is to replace a reticle.

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

quote:

Originally posted by D99:
Million years, you recharge it with a flashlight or the sun.

Thanks Larry, just curiousity. I seem to remember it being some kind of Isotope.
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These sure will spoil a person on regular scopes.

That they have, me included. All the factory people are at shows now and will be for the best part of a month, but will still try and find the replacement cost on a Trij reticle.

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:
Thanks Larry, just curiousity. I seem to remember it being some kind of Isotope.
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These sure will spoil a person on regular scopes.

Hot Core - Just after posting the above got a call from Trijicon Customer Service and was told the tritium will last about 15 years and it would be about a $100.00 for them to replace it. Now we know!!

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

If I recall tritium has a half life of about 12 years. So in about twelve years it will be about 1/2 as bright. Twenty four years will be about 1/4 as bright as new etc...

Thanks Larry and Lapidary. That Half-Life isn't "half" bad . By then, most of my scopes have seen a lot of hard use.(Things happen to them! )
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I just received a January Natchez Shooters Supplies catalog today. They have what appears to be some fairly good Bargains on the Firefly and Illuminated scopes:

Bushnell Elite 3200 Firefly 3-9x 40mm Matte $189.95
Bushnell Elite 4200 Firefly 2.5-10x 50mm Matte $329.95

A whole bunch of Illuminated scopes from various manufacturers. Oh, Osprey is spelled with an "e". All of them are on Sale, but I've not used an Osprey.

And they have the Millett 3-9x 44mm Matte Buck Lightning for $89.95. I'm real tempted to get another of these Buck Lightnings for myself. It's clarity is similar to an `80s Model Leupold VariX-II. And the Low Intensity level is about as perfect as it gets. No "AO" though.

A note on Trijicons, the tritium insert only matters if the scope is being used in extremely low light conditions, far darker than legal shooting hours in most hunting situations. Normally it is illuminated by light picked up and carried to the reticle by the fiber optics cable on the eyepiece.

Most shooters would never notice when or if the tritium weakened. Even after 15 years there is no real need to have the insert replaced unless you anticipate shooting in really low light.

I seem to recall reading somewhere the Trijicons sold in Europe don't even have the tritium insert, but I don't know this for a fact.

I've used three 3-9 Trijicons, my assessment agrees with the comments earlier by Larry Sellers: excellent optics, battery-free, well made and reliable. Can't say about customer service as I haven't needed it but I've never heard a criticism spoken either.

Dave - Right on about most people not even noticing that the tritium element may have dimmished some. My main reason for getting into the Trijicon scopes was for after dark Leopard hunting. It worked without reservation and resulted in my taking of a nice Leopard in Mozambique last year.

Some think the triangle doesn't allow for really precise aiming, but using that very pinpoint tip results in sub minute of angle groups with my 9.3 X 62 that wears it. I haven't mentioned that the ability to shoot with both eyes open with this scope makes it super for quick target pickup and running shots.

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Anderson:
A note on Trijicons, the tritium insert only matters if the scope is being used in extremely low light conditions, far darker than legal shooting hours in most hunting situations. Normally it is illuminated by light picked up and carried to the reticle by the fiber optics cable on the eyepiece.

Most shooters would never notice when or if the tritium weakened. Even after 15 years there is no real need to have the insert replaced unless you anticipate shooting in really low light.

I seem to recall reading somewhere the Trijicons sold in Europe don't even have the tritium insert, but I don't know this for a fact.

I've used three 3-9 Trijicons, my assessment agrees with the comments earlier by Larry Sellers: excellent optics, battery-free, well made and reliable. Can't say about customer service as I haven't needed it but I've never heard a criticism spoken either.

Larry, I took a 3-9 Trijicon to Africa once (on a .300 Win. Mag.) but never had occasion to use it in low light. One time I really appreciated the low light advantage while hunting whitetail deer on Anticosti Island.

It was just after legal shooting time in the morning, heavily overcast. The buck was standing on the other side of a clearing, several steps into a very heavy and dark growth of trees. Probably could have made the shot with a regular reticle but with the Trijicon it was a cinch.

The scope from the .300 Win. Mag. is now on my .375 Ruger African and seems to handle recoil well. So far at least (around 100+ rounds) it has held up perfectly with no change in point of impact. I like this scope a lot, it is a very practical hunting scope, and yes it certainly does allow precision shooting as well as speed.

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Norman:
Thank you Hot Core, that is exactly the type of info I'm seeking.

I'm also giving considerable thought to the Bushnell Firefly and/or spending the extra bucks for a Trijicon. Me and anything that relies on batteries seem to have issues.

While a little pricier than 500 bux, the trijicon gets my vote. I am looking to put one on my all weather rem 3006 also.

Some years ago I purchased an ATN 3x9x55 LU. I used it on a 30-06 to take a bear. It is not a scope I would recommend, besides ATN stopped making it. However, I did like the big 55mm glass. It does make a difference at twilight. I saw more than 1 bear just past legal hours creeping in the brush with that scope.

I have been considering replacing that scope and have been looking at the Bushnell Banner 3-9x50 Matte IR Riflescope 713959I at Opticsplanet it is about $120.00.

What ever you get, consider a larger objective, look for a dimmer control and take a good look at which batteries it uses.

Leupold just came out with the new VX-R the 3-9 runs about $480. They have a "Fire Dot" reticle, so it is just a small dot in the center of the crosshairs. The scopes all look like they have a side PA knob on them for controling the fire dot's brightness.

Other than that I don't know much about them.