I think very few of us on this forum (very few!) doubt that wolves will prey on humans given the opportunity.

I think you can have a dozen incidents like this, and the tree-huuger set will remain unconvinced that wolves can be a threat to humans.

I'm truly sorry this happened to this young man.
I anticipate the rationalizations of the Earth First crowd.

Garrett

It's sad what happened to this young person, and I feel for his family as well.

Unfortunately, I think we'll be hearing more and more of events such as this as the wolf populations continue to increase. Liberal hunting seasons would help -- and perhaps big game populations could then rebound as well.

That is a very sad story, but you know people are going to point out that more people are killed every year in hunting related incidents.

The fact that wolves kill people is an argument that will get nowhere as far as reducing their numbers.

Sure, "The Greenies lied, when they said they didn't kill people."---- Everyone knows the "Greenies" lied.

Unfortunately, the voting public doesn't care that they did, and probably never will.

IV

I should of been there and shot all those wolves like a shooting ballerina,the guy would be still alive!

I can´t understand why ever was it doubted that wolves could attack humans in a given situation ... some people simply won´t treat wild animals just as what they are - wild - and that would eventually attack defending their territories against any intrusion or just as it was the case in this sad story, looking for food ...

Sadly this lesson has cost a young life

What is so bad is that the "Greenies" are so hell bent on reestablishing and saving the wolves that they are not looking at the cost. Deer, elk, moose, and rabbit (not to mention sheep and cattle) numbers will continue to plummet while wolf numbers grow. Until a hunting season is established, wolves will continue to attack and eat whatever they can catch, including humans.

quote:

I think very few of us on this forum (very few!) doubt that wolves will prey on humans given the opportunity.

One reason those very few harbor some doubt may be that until this incident it doesn't seem to have happened before. From the article:

"The death of Carnegie is the first documented wolf-caused fatality of a human in North America in at least 100 years, and maybe the first ever on this continent, period."

“If you look at the history of wolf attacks in North America, wild wolves just don’t attack people, and I don’t think the Canadian incidents change that,†says Bangs. “These were wild wolves that were turned into big dogs because they became habituated. Dogs kill about twenty people each year and put tens of thousands in the hospital. Wild wolves do their damnedest to stay away from people.â€

Of course the best news is:

“The service strongly supports the hunting of wolves as a management tool,†Bangs says. “Hunting is the perfect way to keep the wolf from becoming a domestic dog.â€

If the guy was packing a defender the outcome would have been different. I live and camp/hunt in B.C. We never go into the bush unarmed. While hunting Elk off the Musqua (3 hrs. in by river boat) we talked to several oil exploration guys being dropped off by chopper. They had a no guns in chopper policy. There were grizzlies all over. Accident waiting to happen?

Ed Bangs hit the nail on the head. Any meat eating carnivore that kills to make a living will attack a human under the right conditions whether it be a mt. lion, African lion, jaguar, black bear, griz etc. etc. The best protection is their fear of humans and the best way to instill that fear/respect is by hunting them.
What is amazing to me is that the wolf has not managed to kill someone in the long history in of North America. Let's "Keep them wild".

465H&H

There have been lots of wolf attacks just not fatal ones if you read the article. Most people that are attack by sharks live but does that mean they would not eat a human? A predator is just that a predator when it is hungry enough it is not going to care what you are. I think it's time for some people in that area to take care of the wolves on their own. Yes it might be against the law but the law is not always right. If I ever have one in my back yard it will not leave alive period. I figure my scent is all over the place and it knows a human is there so if it does decide to come in the yard it really does not fear humans now does it? There have been two spotted over the last 3 month by people on snowcat just 5miles north east of me on the Minnesota side. For there sake they better hope they do not come to visit.

Hello the camp,
Does anyone doubt the reason that wolves were wiped out in most of the lower 48 is that the ranchers farmers and trappers knew thaat a wolf would kill and eat animals including humans?
the expression "
The wolf is at the door." takes on a more imporant meaning. Why do we continue to have to re-learn the lessons of old?
Judge Sharpe

How many people are killed by domestic dogs every year? Lets get rid of all the domestic dogs in the US!

This is one isolated case of a wolf that was used to human contact and it cost a human his life because of it... Even if you added up all the 'supposed' wolf attacks and kills you'd probalby stuggle to come up with a handful of examples.

Here’s my submission for the 2006 Darwin Awards:

“After mining companies opened the equivalent of a restaurant for wolves at Points North Landing, employee Kenton Carnegie decided to go for a walk at dinner time. His mangled body was recovered around 1930 on 08 November. RCMP investigators said the incident appeared to be fairly straightforward.â€

Whadda ya think?


Okie John

Ivan I am not saying to kill all the wolves they do have there place but when they have lost their fear of humans they have no place. If your dog walked down the street and bite someone most states make you put it down. Now does it say anything about trying to kill the wolves that killed this kid? No now they have tasted human blood and now for sure look at humans as food. You do not see a problem with that? Yes wolves have a place in the food chain and yes they eat Elk, Moose, deer and other things I can live with that. But when they start hanging out in bunches around a town and start comming in people yards to eat there dogs or garbage that should tell someone there are to many in the area. Time to thin them out.

We recognize this in our recovery plans,†says Bangs. “Under the Endangered Species Act, if you’re directly threatened by a wolf, you can kill it right then and there.

Well isn't, that nice of Ed. Giving me permission with the ESA to defend my life. What a joke.

The ESA does not give you permission to kill a wolf that attacks you. It recognizes and reafirms your right to self defense.

465H&H

quote:

Originally posted by JudgeSharpe:
Hello the camp,
Does anyone doubt the reason that wolves were wiped out in most of the lower 48 is that the ranchers farmers and trappers knew thaat a wolf would kill and eat animals including humans?
the expression "
The wolf is at the door." takes on a more imporant meaning. Why do we continue to have to re-learn the lessons of old?
Judge Sharpe

I think the greatest reason that there are no previous documented cases of human fatalities is that the American Indians didn't have a written language to record them.

The Indians "respected" the wolf, but would also kill any that they found too close to their camps

The history in europe of wolf Vs human is far older and wolves were tought thousands of years ago that they should respect and more importantly AVOID contact with man.

these new wolves haven't learned that lesson and it's a lesson that needs to be given to them....

Like the Wild Wolf killed recently in PA...

Just a damned big Coyote.
I wonder if the guy that shot it will get to keep the Pelt and get a CITES tag for it?

AllanD

N. Garrett:

Speak for yourself!


It's a real education to read a bunch of posts from people who most likely have never seen a live timber wolf in the wild in their lives.

It's interesting that the posts don't come from Alaska where wolves run routinely. They also don't come from people who have dealt with wolves routinely.

Let me put this plainly. Wolves don't seek out humans to hunt! (as polar bear,jaguar and leopard will) A rabid wolf or pack? Maybe. Any chance that those wolves were rabid?

I carried bait pails (unarmed) to bear stands in Ontario Province and had wolves shadowing me on one occasion. (ducking here and there behind trees. I had my bear early and enjoyed doing it) Why were they there? Because they were curious to know what I was doing and where I was going. (Wolves never approach bait on a black bear stand unless driven by desperation after several successive mild winters)

There will be no response to the lunatics who want to call me a PETA advocate. I don't like hysteria about killing wolves -any more than I like shark killing hysteria. Shoot the wolf killing livestock. Unless you're a rancher, farmer or sheep herder, who kills them as he sees necessary, I don't believe in "sport" hunting for wolves.

465H&H,

Ya think.

quote:

There will be no response to the lunatics who want to call me a PETA advocate. I don't like hysteria about killing wolves -any more than I like shark killing hysteria. Shoot the wolf killing livestock. Unless you're a rancher, farmer or sheep herder, who kills them as he sees necessary, I don't believe in "sport" hunting for wolves.

I'm not going to call you a PETA advocate
I will say that the wolves you'd encountered have been "well behaved" I hope for you they stay that way.

The issue is that as wolves get more common they will get humanized.
As with Bears when they get humanized they will become a problem.

Obviously wolves that attack and kill humans or dogs have become a problem....

I think "inevetiblility" the operative word here....

AllanD

quote:

I don't believe in "sport" hunting for wolves.

I watched a big black male while sheep hunting in the Alaska range.I tried like heck to kill him.He would have been a fine trophy animal,that
I would have been proud to take...He just got lucky that day.

Another time with my wife,while hunting caribou,
we watched a lone wolf work a bunch of bou.For
about 10 minutes he made 3 attempts.We were so
mezmerized I didn't even think about killing him till the event was well over and the participants left.No he was not successful.

My last wolf experience was on a solo bou hunt
in AK. The wolves found my kill site at 3:30 am
and after cleaning up the bones sang a song to
the caribou.It was one of the most thrilling
sounds I've ever heard.

I don't think there is anything wrong with hunting them.And in this case...people always
come first.If this pack has no fear of man,then
they need to learn it before they attack again.

Gerry375 I don't hunt for sport I hunt because I have to and if I have to explain what I mean then the person who ask's the question wouldn't understand the answer. Now what exactly do you think should be hunted and why do you feel your opinons should apply to all? Now as for seeing a wolf I seen one everyday I hunted Elk in Wyoming and heard them Howl every morning and night when I was going up and down the mountain. That is where they belong up on the mountain not next to a garbage dump or trying to steal someones sandwich out of there hand. The wolves following you were sizing you up they are not the neighbors dog just checking you out and they knew what the you were long before you even saw them. The first one we saw when Elk hunting was about a half mile away and when he ended up seeing us he was gone like right now. He knew what we were and wanted no part of it. Thats how it should be.

CANADIAN HUMAN KILLS WOLVES

This pic was taken two winters ago but I like to bring it out for situations like this. I was hunting deer and saw a pack of wolves chasing some white-tails. I did a bit of "fawn distress squeeling" and these two came on the run. Dropped the closer one at 40 yards with one shot. Had to empty my Savage 99 (5 shots) at the farther one to put him on the ground.

This took place in a remote northern outpost. Not in a major city. I definatly don't think the local wolves should be wiped out, but if the guy was armed this post wouldn't exist.

Ralphie

I sure do but because the wolf has so little history in NA of attacking humans you can expect that the USF&WS will be looking very closely at any claim of self defense. If you shoot it at 300yds. in the ass, bye, bye. If at 3 yds in the open mouth you'll probably skate.

465H&H

Hmmmm. Wolf kills human, no outcry. "It's an isolated incident."
Human kills wolf....?
I also keep hearing the gun control crowd say, "If it saves only one life, we should ban guns." Wonder about killing all the wolves? It would save a life.

Gerry,

I would say "speak for yourself", but instead I'll say, I think you have your head up your ass.

The place I have seen the most wolves, has been in British Columbia, around the Stikine River area.

The fact that you carried bait out in the bush without being attacked by wolves doesn't impress me.
I don't underestimate wolves as a social animal with keen group hunting abilities.

If you'll read my post carefully, you'll note that I said wolves will prey on humans given the opportunity. Opportunity meaning where they find a human who is vulnerable.

I'm not the only one who has seen wolves run away when you raise up your rifle to shoot (when they are in close enough to see you on the ground).

I don't pretend that wolves know what a rifle is, but I do know that some wolves think a rifle is a bad thing.

I think if I was alone, unarmed, and being trailed by 4 or 5 mature wolves, I would be in some deep shit.

And, it's a myth that wolves weren't reported to kill humans in the past here in North America.
There are plenty of reports from trappers, hunters, and explorers of wolves killing (and eating) collegues.
Those reports have merely been shrugged off as the uneducated opinions of 19th century hysterics.

I think wolves are very smart predators, probably the smartest in N.A. outside of a man.
And, lots of them are hungry.

Damn they make a beautiful pelt.

Garrett

quote:

There will be no response to the lunatics who want to call me a PETA advocate. I don't like hysteria about killing wolves -any more than I like shark killing hysteria. Shoot the wolf killing livestock. Unless you're a rancher, farmer or sheep herder, who kills them as he sees necessary, I don't believe in "sport" hunting for wolves.

I don't think anyone here is going to call you a PETA advocate, you have your opinion as stated above and everyone else has theirs. Mine is when and if they delist the UN endangered wolf I will be in line to get a tag, they need to be managed just like everything else is and you have one of two options. Let gov.org try to do it at the cost of millions of dollars or let the sportsman do and make thousands of dollars in tag sales.

As for the poor fellow in the article may he RIP, you would not catch me going out in an enviroment like that unarmed, sorry just wouldn't happen. Everyone is learning that in my area with the Cat problems we are having, lots and lots of close calls now I know of no one that goes into the hills unarmed.

prof242: HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAH Thats pretty funny when you turn around one of their pet sayings on em, I wonder how many keyboards are "fingerless" after that one!

duffy4: I envy you, great shot! and pics! My Uncle had a Alaskan wolf rug that I remember from his trip to hunt doll sheep that was HUGE! I looked like a large black bear rug. Good job

quote:

Originally posted by gerry375:
N. Garrett:

Speak for yourself!


It's a real education to read a bunch of posts from people who most likely have never seen a live timber wolf in the wild in their lives.

It's interesting that the posts don't come from Alaska where wolves run routinely. They also don't come from people who have dealt with wolves routinely.

Let me put this plainly. Wolves don't seek out humans to hunt! (as polar bear,jaguar and leopard will) A rabid wolf or pack? Maybe. Any chance that those wolves were rabid?

I carried bait pails (unarmed) to bear stands in Ontario Province and had wolves shadowing me on one occasion. (ducking here and there behind trees. I had my bear early and enjoyed doing it) Why were they there? Because they were curious to know what I was doing and where I was going. (Wolves never approach bait on a black bear stand unless driven by desperation after several successive mild winters)

There will be no response to the lunatics who want to call me a PETA advocate. I don't like hysteria about killing wolves -any more than I like shark killing hysteria. Shoot the wolf killing livestock. Unless you're a rancher, farmer or sheep herder, who kills them as he sees necessary, I don't believe in "sport" hunting for wolves.

What you have said may be true, but in Canada alone there has been several documented cases of wolves attacking humans. The most recent one I can remember was a year or two ago: this guy was asleep in his tent. There were others in his tent, I believe, and in tents nearby. The guy was in his sleeping bag, and a wolf got partially inside the tent and started biting him on the legs through the sleeping bag. The cries awoke a couple of guys, and these had to scare the wolf away by throwing shoes and whatever they could find at it. The guy was badly mauled on both legs.

Not too long ago, a 9-year old was badly bitten on his back by a wolf that was trying to drag him into the brush. This happened in a small village in Alaska about 5 years ago. The villagers started throwing rocks and sticks at the wolf, and it dropped the kid. The kid survived the attack, but was hospitalized for awhile.

In Alaska, I can legally kill over 4 wolves per year on my hunting license, but even though I see them all the time, I haven't been fast enough to kill one. A wolf walked within 50' from me a couple of years ago. It went right through my campsite, and it was huge. My rifle was a few paces away leaning on a chair, so I drew my handgun, but by the time I drew it and looked for it through the sights, it had disappeared in the forest. I really thought it was a small black bear at first, and that's why I drew my .454 Casull, but then i realized that it was a wolf. I would have loved to tan that hide

gerry375

In wis. we have wolves coming into deer and bear baits all the time.

Yep the wolves were interisted in you all right. They were wondering what kind of dinner you would make.

Maybe Maybe not as any meat eater they well eat what ever they can catch and kill.

The main reason we haven't had lots of wolf attacks is that most of the time people were and are armed here. Up until 1973 wolves were shot on sight they didn't have time to attack.

I'm with Ivan let's get rid of rotweilers, pit bulls and German shepherds. They kill more humans then wolves.

We seem to have a thing against predators. I think because we are the most successful predator and don't like the competition.

It's probably inbred in us.

duffy4, that must have been a day to remember. Nice photo.

For those of us who have actually lived and worked in deep wilderness for years, it is axiomatic that Wolves can and will threaten/maim and even kill humans. I have seen a number of Wolves while alone in very remote bush in B.C. and Alberta and while I have never been threatened, I was damned glad that I was armed with a bigbore rifle. My impression is that those with the least experience with this topic have the strongest opinions; this is also the case with dogs such as my purebred Rottweilers, etc.

I do not usually carry a firearm while backpacking and haven't in 50 years of B.C. bush experience as I don't like the extra weight. But, we are experiencing a considerable increase in predator attacks on humans here and I would certainly not mock anyone who prefers to go armed while recreating or working in the wilderness of western Canada.

I favour shooting Wolves and Coyotes on sight as there are far too many of them here; we also have too many Black Bears and we need to harvest more of them. I would favour Americans being able to buy a Black Bear tag here and hunt them without a Guide/Outfitter, but, the "powers that be" in the gov't. will never agree to that, too bad.