Just got back from a 3 day hunt in East Durham (Greene County - Southern Zone). I can't comment on the northern zone or western NY State. I have been hunting in East Durham for 24 years. I'm fortunate enough to know a land owner who allows me to access their 300 acres. It's all I can afford to do and I'm very, very thankful.

Although hunting in the southern zone in NY state is fruitful (there are plenty of deer where I hunt), the buck to doe ratio (or should I say the doe to buck ratio) is horrible. I saw 14 deer during my hunt and none of them had antlers. In the 24 years I've hunted there I've harvested 4 bucks and none of them were more than 1.5 years old. The rest of the deer taken were does. And contrary to the majority in NY state, I don't mind harvesting a doe except that in NY State they don't give out many doe permits. I saw 2 harvested bucks on Sunday, a 5 pointer and a 9 pointer. To be very honest, they weren't any where near as impressive as the bucks I see taken on these message boards.

I really wish DEC would change it's mindset regarding deer management. They should really limit harvesting bucks to 8 points and above for the next 5 years and give 2 doe tags with every license purchased. They have to cull the herd. There are way too many does out there and very limited quality bucks.

quote:

Originally posted by mmaggi:
Just got back from a 3 day hunt in East Durham (Greene County - Southern Zone). I can't comment on the northern zone or western NY State. I have been hunting in East Durham for 24 years. I'm fortunate enough to know a land owner who allows me to access their 300 acres. It's all I can afford to do and I'm very, very thankful.

Although hunting in the southern zone in NY state is fruitful (there are plenty of deer where I hunt), the buck to doe ratio (or should I say the doe to buck ratio) is horrible. I saw 14 deer during my hunt and none of them had antlers. In the 24 years I've hunted there I've harvested 4 bucks and none of them were more than 1.5 years old. The rest of the deer taken were does. And contrary to the majority in NY state, I don't mind harvesting a doe except that in NY State they don't give out many doe permits. I saw 2 harvested bucks on Sunday, a 5 pointer and a 9 pointer. To be very honest, they weren't any where near as impressive as the bucks I see taken on these message boards.

I really wish DEC would change it's mindset regarding deer management. They should really limit harvesting bucks to 8 points and above for the next 5 years and give 2 doe tags with every license purchased. They have to cull the herd. There are way too many does out there and very limited quality bucks.

While I agree W/your views on harvesting more does, many/most will not.

Here on the Canadian border near Massena, NY the buck/doe ratio has been brought much cloer to what it should be.

Once does are hunted, they become very wary & are probably less likely to expose them selves during legal shooting hours than bucks. I seldom leave a buck tag unfilled but often have my doe tag left after the season is over. Most in these parts equate that W/"all the does are being killed" & other gloom & doom thinking.

The does them magically re-appear after season is over.

I think this is why some states (Wisconsin) has an "earnabuck" area.....you MUST register a doe before you can shoot a buck.

I'm not sure every state has good deer management laws.....but I believe there is a reasonable ratio that must be maintained to have a healthy herd.

I hunted in California once near Truckee Nevada and saw literally hundreds of does.....no bucks.

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
I think this is why some states (Wisconsin) has an "earnabuck" area.....you MUST register a doe before you can shoot a buck.

I'm not sure every state has good deer management laws.....but I believe there is a reasonable ratio that must be maintained to have a healthy herd.

I hunted in California once near Truckee Nevada and saw literally hundreds of does.....no bucks.

I've read the theory that @ any given time only 10% of the does are receptive to breeding.

If that's true, then a 1:10 buck/doe ratio similar to what many states had back in the bucks only days, would result in EVERY buck having the oportunity to breed.
THAT results in poor genetics.

If, according to that 10% receptiveness theory, the ratio was say, 1:3 B/D ratio, then only the top 33% of bucks in regards to dominance would get to breed thus improving the herd.

Unless of course you have a 4 1/2 year old 285# estimated live weight (219# dressed) dominant 4 point buck like this in the herd.


This buck BTW was never a spike. In 2001, when he was a yearling, I shot @ him as a somewhat large 4 point & left a scar on his cape.


Right after I shot him, a large 140# (dressed weight)4 point yearling was taken on my place W/a 4 point rack that you could almost sit a 5 gallon bucket into. His rack is almost a mirror, slightly reduced size image of the big bruiser. I would bet $100 he was the big boys off-spring.


So, even once the herd is brought into a proper B/D ratio, selective culling is needed.

Now that this guy has been removed, I see a lot more 6-8 points.

Still a lot of yearling spikes, 3-4 points, but they are all small.

I did, unfortunately, shoot a small basket racked 8 point yearling in 2007 & shot this 3 1/2year old 8 point last year.


Imagine what he could have been if he had lived 2 or more years longer.

I watched this deer for 2 seasons & let him walk as a narrow but high 8 point.

I figured he was @ least 4 1/2 but aging him by his teeth reveiled a young 3 1/2 year old that had lots of potential left.

I hunted 3m last Sat without any luck or much shooting on the surrounding areas. . Nice weather for sitting though.

Wildcat - The problem with NYS 30, 40, 50 years ago was that the total number of deer needed to increase. Therefore DEC put in place buck only hunting. This worked very well in getting total numbers up. Although we saw more doe permits being issued in the last 20 years, the damage was done: The mindset of the NYS hunter was set in stone not to shoot does.

DEC has to step up and change that, IMO. It's my belief that for a few years they should sell licenses that includes a buck tag and 2 doe tags. And any buck taken must be 8 pts or better. That's really the only way you can guarantee that younger bucks make it to their 3rd or 4th year and in the process the total number of bucks will increase and the total number of does will decrease. I believe there are too many deer competing for food. And those deer have to be 60%-70% does. The young bucks don't stand a chance in getting good diet.

Again, this is all my opinion. I may be 100% wrong.

BTW Wildcat, those are some really nice bucks you got there. Wish I had seen one of those this past weekend.