We recently booked a Mt. Goat hunt in the Prince William Sound area of coastal Alaska for mid-October of this year.

I'm going to spend 7 days chasing goats around in the mountains while Holly stays aboard the luxurious 60' boat and enjoys bear watching, crabbing, fishing, clamming and whale watching. If I get a goat early, I'll return to the boat and Holly and I will do some deer hunting.

I've never been to Alaska and have lots of questions about appropriate gear for this hunt. We'll land on the beach and climb to a base camp several thousand feet high. What are the best choices for boots, backpack, sleeping bag, clothing, hunting equipment, etc?

I've been told to expect potential temperatures from below freezing at night to the mid 50's during the afternoon. In mid-October, they say we could have a week of blue skies and sunshine, or a week of torrential rains, sleet or even some snow.

I would appreciate some suggestions from the Alaskan forum members and others who have experience with coastal hunts at this time of year.

We're really looking forward to our first Alaskan experience; like Africa, I'm sure it will become an addiction.

The accomodations and equipment are first-class. They consistently produce trophy black bears, brown bears, mountain goats and deer for their clients. Two Outdoor Channel black bear hunting programs were filmed with them last year.

Take a look at their website at www.alaskanadventuretours.com

Hi Mark,
Having guided in coastal B.C. bordering Alaska for many years, I think I know the conditions. It is a little difficult to choose the "right" clothing as the terrain during just one day will be so varied. The tide water area may be very muddy with the slopes thick and jungle like (remember leather gloves for the Devil's Club) and the goat country at the top will be incredibly steep and rocky.
Good, waterproof, leather boots with serious ankle support, No.1 Good qaulity rain gear (Gortex) that can be packed No. 2 An internal frame backpack that will not hang up on the thick jungle at the base of the mountains, No.3 and a light weight +20 sleeping bag and ensolite pad if you plan, or are forced to spend the night on the top.
Good luck with your hunt.
Jim

Mark I would add to the above post to wear wool pants and a wool shirt. I like Filson wool whipcord and Pendleton shirts called Mr. Pendleton. They are hard to find, they are as thin as a cotton shirt, comfortable if the temp goes up and have the advantages of wool, warm when wet and they dry very quickly. Carry several layers of clothing so you can adjust to the changing conditions. I have always used lightweight waxed cotton "oilcloth" for rain gear in Alaska, and Montana. I use an unlined Barbour Durnham [discontinued] and their unlined pants.Filson is now making some unlined waxed cotton rain gear in their "cover cloth" that looks real good. I think waxed cotton is quieter and more rugged than Gore-tex. Take 2 pair of fingerless wool gloves [warm when wet]the kind with the rubber knobs on them, very comfortable and you do not need to take them off to shoot, work your camera etc., and the rubber knobs will help you grip your rifle. Have a good rain proff hat, like the Filson Packer.
Check them out www.filson.com

Congrats on your up comming hunt. I'll be up in the goat trais myself this upcomming season.

Good hunting boots
ultra light rain gear
10x and up nocs
pack frame
rope
spotting scope
day pack
energy bars
lip balm
hand cream
gps
tip for the guide

Mark,

Make sure you have boots that fit and are broken in, fleece clothing, very good rain gear, and the best glass you can afford. Keep it simple..........there's lots of great gear out there and it's nice to have, just remember it's also yours to carry. I hope you and your wife have a great hunt. This may be your first trip, it probably won't be your last. Good luck.

Joe

Thanks for the responses so far.

For boots I have a pair of Russell High Country Hunters with added ankle quarters for support. They are custom fitted and very well made but they are just leather; no gore-tex, no insulation. The triple vamp construction is supposed to be waterproof, but I have my doubts about how long they would stay waterproof in snow, sleet or several days of non-stop rainy weather. I have a pair of 10" Cabelas brand Dri-plus, 200 gram Thinsulate boots. Are they a better choice, or should I take both pairs up the mountain?

We will stay in the base camp for 7 days, or until tagging a goat, whichever comes first. So I need an appropriate sleeping bag. I have an Eddie Bauer down-filled mummy bag rated to -10 degrees that I bought over 20 years ago. I know down is worthless once it gets wet; should I get a new bag with synthetic fill in case of bad weather and a leaky tent?

Thanks for the advice about Filson wool clothing and waxed cotton rain gear. I really like Filson's stuff. I have a few featherweight and safari cloth shirts and a Filson packer hat that I will take, as you suggested. Unfortunately however, I can't wear wool. If it touches my skin it makes me itch like crazy. I'm going to have to depend on polypropylene long underwear and polyester fleece to stay warm.

I'll take a look at the waxed cotton rain gear, but since I already have both insulated and uninsulated camo gore-tex cordura parkas and bibs, it will be difficult to justify buying the waxed cotton. I agree that it's great stuff, quiet and comfortable once broken in, but geez it's pricey! Probably my best choice is to take the uninsulated cordura rain suit and dress in layers underneath to suit the temperature.

Mark,
I emailed you a list. Take it with a grain of salt.

Mark
Like you wool, against my skin is something I cannot stand. I always wear some kind of long underware under it. Either Patagonia or silk. Silk is much better above 45 degrees if you are in high exertion. If it turns cold I wear the poly, real cold put the silk on OVER the poly.
I HIGHLY recommend you do not wear any cotton pants or shirts. Even my underware briefs are Patagonia. Once cotton gets wet it will never dry in a damp environment.
I have two really good down sleping bags, one good to 32 degrees and one good to minus 30 degrees. When I went to Alaska the Guide INSISTED I bring a synthetic sleeping bag. I suggest you do the same. I got a good one from Mountain Hardware. Just remember your sleeping bag is your life support system. At night is when you recharge your batteries, you cannot do that if you are shivering from the cold. If your down bag gets wet you could die.

Mark

I would suggest buying a new sleeping bag in one of the synthetic insulations. Maybe rated for a little colder also. Your right about when it gets wet. The synthetic types are also lighter to pack around and more compact.

About wool. I like wool alot but not for hiking after goats. When it gets wet it is heavy as hell, You might as well pack a gallon of xtra water around.

Take my suggestion about the hand moisterizer seriously. We forgot to pack some on a do it yourself fly in once and my hands started to crack and bleed. We ended up using the last of the margerine and then the last of the chap stick on our hands.

Mark,

A lot of what everyone has suggested is right on, no cotton, wool or fleece, gortex, the best (broken in) boots you can afford, top of the line optics, a synthetic sleeping bag and lots of patience...and especially what your guide/outfitter suggests you bring.
What a great trip, I worked in PWS during the 89' oil spill and it was a beautiful place then and still is now. Happy hunting

John

Thanks for the list, boilerroom, good suggestions.

Palmer, you should consider starting a new thread and posting the list that you sent me privately. Call it the North Country Packing List, similar to the Safari Packing List that T. Carr has compiled. I'm sure plenty of people, like me, headed north for the first time would find it useful.

Ok, I agree. I need to buy a new synthetic fill sleeping bag. I'm 6'2", 255 lbs. and wear a size 52 Long sport coat. Definitely larger than your average bear. Where should I look to find the right bag? Bauer, Bean, Cabelas, REI, Bass Pro? What temperature range? What fill material? Full size or mummy style? While I'm at it, I'll need a pad under the bag; what's the best material, how thick should it be?

Several of you have mentioned "light-weight" rain gear. My gore-tex cordura parka and bibs are tough enough to handle devil's club and sharp rocks, but they are certainly not light-weight. What's more important, low weight and packability, or toughness and durability?

Mark that is why I like light weight [no liner] waxed cotton oil cloth rain gear, it is rugged and if it is torn [mine never has] it can easily be sewn back together. If your rain gear tears up you could be toast , well soggy toast actually . Several Alaskan Guides in their brochures recommend no gortex....which is why I tried it. I like it better, It seems to breath better and is quieter. After a couple of trips you can re-treat it and it is good as new. I always used good quality gortex, Marmont Mountain and Patagonia, but for Alaska and Montana type weather durring hunting season I prefer waxed cotton. I highly recommend you take a look at the wool clothing I recommended. Several times while in Alaska or Montana durring a light rain/drizzle you would sweat more from the rain gear. I would just walk without it, my body heat would keep the wool almost dry. If we stopped to glass I would put the rain coat on, but take it off when we started to walk or stalk. As soon as it quit raining 10 or 15 minutes of walking later you could not even tell I had neen in the rain.

Mark,

I'm the same size as you and I called REI last year and they were very helpful giving me info
on bags that would work for me. I ended up with a Canadian made bag that I bought while I was in the Yukon last year. I have it with my gear that I already shipped north for camp this season and I don't remember the brand. REI is a great place for free info even if you don't buy their bags. Look for one with wide square shoulders and a reasonable taper. Cabelas also has a good selection on their website with sizes listed. Also check the Cabela's Bargain Cave as the large sizes don't sell as well due to the extra weight.
I will do without a lot of gear but a comfortable bag is a real need and is worth the extra weight.
You'll enjoy your hunt a lot more if you're well rested.

Joe

Mark

Lightwieght, waterproof rifle. No A Bolts. You don't need anything larger than an '06

Look to Northern Outfitters in Utah for Bags. the Storm Mountain 'Lite' is what you want. Primaloft is warmer than down at the same weight and the top is wind proof. Good below 0.

www.northernoutfitters.com

For a rain coat get a SWAZI Wapiti. Made in NZ they are the ultimate rain parka for hunting. I have worn mine clam digging at Moclips when the wind blows at plus 40 and the rain falls and inch and hour and stayed dry. Under the coat anyway. You will not need another jacket, just a couple of quality fleece pullovers.

www.swazi.co.nz

I dislike waxed cotton as I have always found it cold and damp when in constant rain or drizzle at just above freezing. Snow is much easier to stay warm and dry in.

Get all of your udergarments in Black or dark Blue as they will dry in the sun faster than lighter colors.

Don't forget to pack light as you will have to bring out your Billy and all of the meat on your backs.

Pack anything you do not want to get wet, including your sleeping bag, in Outdoor Research water proof roll top bags,[just like the heavier river raft dry bags]. They come in different colors and sizes even big enough to hold your sleeping bag.They are very light weight. This way when you pack leaks or your tent leaks or blows down your important gear will still be dry. I use different sizes and different colors to keep my gear sorted out and organized.

I'd just like to say that the idea that synthetic bags are "warm when wet" is not quite right. You get a synthetic bag soaked and at those temperatures, you are in for a really cold miserable night at the very least and possibly hyperthermia at the worst. For its weight, I would strongly recommend a a lightweight "plain jane" goretex bivvy bag. Excellant as part of a fly camp, I would even use it inside your tent, "just in case" anything goes wrong during the night...

Regards,

Pete

Mark,
In looking at 2 of the pictures on the outfitters website, I see that the guide is wearing calf high rubber boots and what appear to be vasque rock boots. Best advice is to ask the outfitter what he would recommend, he has the experience of the terrain. While your at it, ask if you will need waders. If you will only cross small streams, I would suggest the Wiggy's fabric waders, easy on & off and packs small.
I like Wiggy's sleeping bags and have a -20 & +20 degree. Find out what the lowest temps could be and choose according to how you sleep (warm or cold-by this I mean that some people radiat alot of heat when they sleep and this keeps them very warm, others don't fare as well).
Sleeping pad, something simple and lite weight, a Z pad or closed cell foam pad.
Rain gear, helly hansen impertech. There is nothing better, go with the long coat instead of the jacket. I use the pants and not the bibs, easier to take off when the weather clears. One note, I removed one strip of velcro on the coat, it is too noisy in the field when taking the coat off.
Clothes, REI MTS stretch mesh boxers, smartwool or patagonia capilene longies. Over that, fleece all the way. When you do get wet, the fleece will dry, goretex will not. Check with the outfitter what he would suggest for color/pattern.
Almost forgot, dark colored duct tape. This stuff has many uses, repairs to waders, sleeping bag, tent, coat and last but not least - blisters.

[ 05-15-2003, 17:37: Message edited by: DaveC ]

Impertech is good rain gear but the moisture from your body will not pass thru. It is very 'strethy' but the Devils Clubs will rip it to shreds before you are even up the hill. It will work fine once you are in the timber or above.

As you will not be hunting down low noise is of little importance so stiffer clothing and swearing are permitted.

Thanks for all the suggestions! I've decided to go with the uninsulated gore-tex cordura rainwear that I already have and see how it works. If it turns out to be too heavy, bulky or noisy, I'll know better next time. I may yet be tempted to try the Swazi stuff, but their website is under construction and I haven't received their catalog yet.

The links and ideas about sleeping bags were very helpful. I've found a number of good choices at REI, Mountain Hardware and Cabelas.

Any opinions as to which one of these is the best choice? I'm an "active" sleeper, so I'm leaning toward the Wiggy's Sleep System rectangular bag. It weighs a couple pound more than the others, but looks alot more comfortable.

http://www.wiggys.com/moreinfo.cfm?Product_ID=58

http://www.northernoutfitters.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fnam e=Sportswear&category%5Fname=Camping&product%5Fid=195625

http://www.northernoutfitters.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=S portswear&category%5Fname=Camping&product%5Fid=196

http://www.mountainhardwear.com/Web_Catalog/Full_Spec s.asp?styleid=642&stylename=High%20Mountain%2072%20Pad&styletype=PAD

http://www.mountainhardwear.com/ The 4th Dimension bag.

[ 05-17-2003, 17:07: Message edited by: Mark in SC ]

I would stick with the box type sleeping bag. The advantage of the mummy is decreased weight (but probably negligible), less volume to heat at night, but they are difficult for an active sleeper to sleep in. I would agree with primaloft (although it will not last nearly as long as down). A vapor barrier AND a gore-tex bivy sack will keep down dry, so that would also be a consideration if you want to use your old sleeping bag.
Vaseline is something I always bring backpacking. It can start help start a fire in a pinch, it's a great remedy for chapped lips, sunburns, chaffing or to moisturize. Also, look for one of the ultra-light weight xenon headlamps such as the micca from petzel. They are amazing. Good luck.

I was just looking over the photos on the outfitter's website www.alaskanadventuretours.com looking at the clothing, boots, gear, etc. used by them and their clients on Mt. Goat hunts.

Here are two photos of Darren Byler, Captain of the Alaskan Adventure, doing a highwire act in pursuit of goats.

http://www.alaskanadventuretours.com/goatgallery/pages/r%20DarrenGoatMtnwHarness.html

http://www.alaskanadventuretours.com/goatgallery/pages/s%20Darren%20Hanging%20from%200019.html

I don't think I want a Mt. Goat bad enough to hang my lily white ass over a 2,000 foot gorge on a piece of string!!

Now I understand why Darren and Kimberly call it "Alaskan ADVENTURE Tours!"

Everyone has covered the gear quite well. You'll definately want at least a pair of calf high rubber boots to get to shore and for crossing small streams. Layer with polypro underware and fleece. Carry an extra set of polypro and socks in a gallon ziplock in your pack. I actually enjoy wearing wool, but it doesn't compare to fleece. Fleece is lighter, and dries much faster. You're just about guranteed to be wet from rain or presperation.

The real key is carrying as little gear as possible. It's easy to gear up with all sorts of gadgits, but that isn't really necessary. Carry good gear, but just the basics. Be prepared for cold, wet, foggy, windy whether, not to mention snow.

The one thing that hasn't been mentioned, and is most important to sucess for mountain hunting is your physical conditioning. Doesn't matter how good your gear or how light your pack if you're huffing right off the boat. You need to be running dayly, and taking long hikes with a full pack a few times a week. If you're in shape, you'll enjoy the hunt, rain or shine. If you are out of shape, the weather will only add to your misery.

Paul, you're right about physical conditioning being as important as appropriate gear.

I live in the coastal Lowcountry region of South Carolina and there are no mountains to climb or trails to hike within 300 miles of here. So, immediately after booking the hunt, I scheduled a session with a Personal Trainer at my gym and told him I had 6 months to get ready for a very demanding backpack hunt in the mountains.

He made some changes to my regular weight-lifting routines to incorporate more lower back and leg exercises. He also had me change my cardio routine from a treadmill to an elliptical strider doing interval training that includes raising the incline to the maximum level.

In a few weeks, I'll start taking my hiking boots and backpack to the gym and do the cardio while wearing the boots and backpack, then slowly add weight to the backpack as I get accustomed to carrying a load. I'm sure I'll draw some strange looks, but who cares!

If I can stick with the diet (Atkins Diet, after all, we are carnivores, right?) and exercise routine, I hope to be in reasonably good shape by October so I can enjoy my first mountain hunt, and my first trip to Alaska.

Mark,

Regarding physical conditioning, in addition to the aerobic training, I did "lunges" and standard and wide-stance barbell "squats" to get ready for a hunt in the Wrangell Mountains last August. If I knew then what I know now...I would have done a whole lot more.

The other weight exercise that was helpful was a sitting "reverse" calf raise, where the object is to keep your foot on the floor and with a dumbbell over your toes, raise the front of your foot while your heel stays on the ground. This helps prepare for the "decent" and strengthens the ankles. Low weight and high reps, leg should be at about a 45-degree angle. You should feel it in your shins.

I wore Imperitech and it held up through some nasty stuff, but it was hot. Something that breaths a bit while still being totally waterproof would be ideal.

I had good success with Cabela's "3D" sleeping bag. They claim a "three dimensional design", which gave me enough room even in a mummy style. Zippers held up, stuffed well, dried quickly when I got wet w/wet clothes.

Another poster is right, one can be somewhat uncomfortable with the wrong gear, but totally miserable if not physically ready. It sounds like you have a good program and approach for either. Good luck!

Bill

I just thought I would try to post those pics mark mentions here. Looks more like something from a Commando Course than a hunting trip!





[ 05-25-2003, 01:52: Message edited by: Pete E ]

my freind went on a goat hunt 2 years ago. Said the best clothing he had was the MTO-50 rain gear from cabelas. The pants and jacket store in their pocket, so use little room. I bought a set, but have not needed yet. They should last a long time, very well made.

Mark,
Just remember you're packing all this stuff. New lightweight raingear from one of the top names like Patagonia, North Face, or REI would be my STRONG suggestion for this reason. They know how to keep you dry AND vent heat away during strenuous exercise. Their vent zippers are "goo-sealed" and fly covered. Their liner fleece is also vent matched so you can vent down to your core. Shucking and donning gear every time you start or stop (climb then glass) is NOT fun or particularly stealthy. Their fabrics are all designed to withstand years of rock abrasion. They are sewn WITHOUT seams under the spots your backpack straps will rub. The tail will extend below the backpack... so it doesn't ride up exposing that lilly white ass. BUT most important, they understand the proper construction of a hood. It should be snug to your dome, shed water down the back, and the opening should always be in front of your face. Once adjusted, you can look up, down, left and right without the hood covering one eye, dropping between your eye and the scope, etc. Camille and I have used the North Face Mountain Light Parka, zip in fleece jackets, and windstopper jackets for a few years. All have matching vents. If it gets really cold, don't zip the liner into the parka. If you do, there is no unsulation in the 1" wide zipper area on the front of the parka.
Don't worry about colors, just take a set of cheap gauze like mesh camo from Walmart. It will hide anything including a bright color like yellow (a color that could allow help to find you easier if the need arises).

Bout that bag. Campmor (www.campmor.com) has "closeouts" and discontinued models from all the big names REI, North Face, Patagonia, Kelty, etc. They even have the North Face rain Parka I mentioned on sale. You've received much advice on the bag, but I will also recommend a "sleep sac". This is a bag liner of sorts that you SHOULD use. It protects the inside of the bag from body moisture as you sleep the sleep of the dead (like most toasty sheep hunters). If conditions are really wet, you alternate its use from night to night to always have "dry fabric" against your skin. There are many brands and fabrics available.

One of the posts about wool mentioned wearing it through a light drizzle. I totally agree! This is the reason I have fallen in love with the stuff, and spent so much time at Reno this year looking at wool manufacturers. One thing not often mentioned is it also needs to be broken in! Once it flexes at your body's flex points, even the itchy stuff is soft and comfortable. If it ain't machine washable, forget it. One single time in the wash, and it will be too small for Miss Shiffa. That's just unacceptable for expensive hunting garments. Like jeans, good wool gets more comfortable with age. Itching is an issue for me too. You know those zip neck shirts with the stand up Mandarin collars I always wear... no more itch concerns. All the long underwear folks make zip necks; just make sure you get the "mock turtle neck" height.

Also Socks. SmartWool www.smartwool.com makes the best socks bar none. They are made from Merino wool, and even Camille can wear them. There is no way you're more itch sensitive than her. The site is hilarious, and gives most of the information you'll need, but nearly any outdoor shop carries them. They are THAT much of the standard with hikers. Now they have a merino wool long underwear line. I have no experience with it, but knowing their other products, I plan to try a set this fall.

Since you'll be looking at an internal frame pack, you may as well get one from a bunch of sheep hunters who make their living satifying mountain climbers. Badlands packs www.badlandspacks.com are made by Vortex www.vortexpacks.com, and they are the company that donated two packs to our chapter auction this year. The Vortex site has a good "how to fit" section, and the Badlands site details the "hunting packs". They were very knowledgable people, and were eager to help our chapter/members further. Call if you want the contact names.

Mark, that wraps up my Two Cents worth. See you next Tuesday.

Safe Hunting

Clint