I have recently bought a brand new Sako model 75 stainless synthetic in 300 Win Mag, and am happy with the rifle. I have not yet had a chance to hunt with it. I have not yet even completed breaking the barrel in, having only fired 6 shots since new. When I decided to buy the rifle I was looking for the hardest hitting, flattest shooting .30 cal i could find (short of going to the .30-378). I didn't do my research, and ended up getting the 300WM. I have since been offered an extremely good trade in (virtually a straight swap) for another brand new Sako 75 stainless synthetic in 300RUM. What I want to know is... Is it worth the straight swap?

I have only fired 150gr power-points from the 300WM and found the recoil to be no problem at all. Also, availibility of ammo for either calibre is no issue. Based purely on ballistics (Accuracy, trajectory and hitting power)... Has the 300RUM got much of an advantage over the 300WM?

Thanks

If you really want the "hardest hitting flattest shooting thirty" then that is an easy decision to make. Hands down between those two the .300 RUM wins. The Win Mag IMO as I said already elsewhere is overbored and glorified '06.

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May your chambers be true to your bores.

Hooligan - You should be able to swap with no problems. Check out the classified section on gun forums. You will find a lot of UltraMags for sale. Some folks just did not like the recoil. Built properly, it can be a very good long range cartridge. Something that Dakota and Lazzeroni figured out several decades ago.

ultramag - This is just a question and not a flame or intended to start another war - If you consider the .300 Win Mag overbore, in what way is the .300 RUM not? Are you sure you know what overbore means?

I know exactly what the term "overbore" refers to. I will concede that the way it is stated in my post is not correct for what I was trying to say. What I am trying to get across is I don't think there is a real gain in going from an '06 to a 300 Win Mag and if he wants a "big,fast,flat-shooting 30" the Win Mag is not it. With the Win Mag you use 10-15 grains more powder for 100-200 f/s over the '06.

Now, my thought process works fast enough to realize that from here the argument will be that my beloved Ultra is only 300-400 f/s faster than the Win Mag. Yes, but that is basically what I'm trying to state in the original post. I feel that a gain of 500-600 f/s over the '06 is enough to flatten out trajectory and increase knockdown power enough to make a noticeable gain.

So in short I was not saying the .300 Win Mag is overbore, I think it is basically a glorified '06.

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May your chambers be true to your bores.

If you shoot factory ammunition, the difference in the two will probably be about 200 fps with a 180 grain bullet. Loaded to similar pressures in handloads, and with the same length barrel, your velocity difference will probably be about the same, but you can reasonable improve both by 50 or more fps. I think that the Sako has a 24" barrel in the Winchester and a 26" in the Ultra, so this comparison is a little bit apples and oranges -- the velocity difference with the added barrel length may be more like 250 fps.

The Ultra will hold only 3 cartridges in the magazine, wheras the Winchester will hold 4.

I would think that the Ultra would tend to be a bit harder to get to shoot as accurately, but individual guns may vary and the Ultra might be the more accurate between two individual rifles.

You'll have plenty of muzzle blast with either, but the 26" Ultra may seem no worse than the 24" Winchester. Barrel wear will only be a factor if you do a truly voluminous amount of shooting with the gun. In normal big game use, either barrel will outlast you.

Shooting them side-by-side, even at 500 yards, the difference in drop will be less than one MOA.

You decide what's important to you, and go for it.

Stating the difference as 1 MOA sure sounds good.

The difference in drop between the Win Mag and Ultra in actual numbers will be between 9" and 10" varying w/ the actual velocity. That is w/ a 100 yd. zero at 500 yds.

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May your chambers be true to your bores.

[This message has been edited by ultramag (edited 03-11-2002).]

ultramag - Who sets their LR hunting rifle zero at 100 yards? Set the zero at 300 yards and then calculate the drop at 500 yards using a BC around .507. The difference in drop is not that great with a 300 yard zero.

3100fps
180gr Bullet
BC .507
300 Yard Zero
500 Yard Drop - 25.1"

3300fps
180gr Bullet
BC .507
300 Yard Zero
500 Yard Drop - 21.8

The difference between the two is - 3.3"\

Let's keep the comparrisons at least close.

I set ALL my Long Range gun's for a 100 yard zero....As does everybody I know who long range hunt's...Run a ballistic chart with a 220gr MatchKing with a B.C of .655 at 3100fps.I can get that out of My RUM with a 26" barrel....Then run one at 2700fps.About 300 Win velocity...Then you will see the difference....I have also gotten 3460fps with a 180gr pill in my RUM....

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I HUNT LONG RANGE.AND YES I USE MATCHKING'S.

Zero Drift,

Just posted the numbers for a straight across the board equal comparison. The 100 yd. numbers were in the first row and easier for me to see and stay in the right column while typing. I'm most sorry that this bothered you so much, I will try to do better next time.

Just FYI I do use a 300 yd. zero on my LR rifles also.

Do you feel that there is an advantage in Hooligan trading for the .300 RUM or not? You didn't really answer the question that was asked, you just told him he probably could trade w/ no problem. That's not what he asked. It sounds like he has the trade worked out already.

By what I gather you seem to also feel the trade would be beneficial, but you still want to banter back and forth w/ me. What gives? Does my not being in love w/ the Win Mag bother you?

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May your chambers be true to your bores.

ultramag - Not bothered in the least. I was not tossing barbs your way or flaming you. I have no problems at all with the pending trade. While I don't shoot a .300 WinMag, I do shoot a 7mm Dakota over the 7mm WinMag, and I have both a .330 Dakota and a .338 WinMag as well as other �overbore� guns. For me to put down the Ultra would be hypocrisy at its finest.

I have no problems what so ever with the Ultra Mag. Hell, there is nothing new about the cartridge design. Dakota and others have been using the .404 parent case for decades. IF LR is what Hooligan is after, the UltraMag is a good consideration but so is the Lapua, Weatherby (if you can stomach the belt and radius shoulder), and many other wildcat designs for LR shooting.

The simple point I was attempting to politely make was, with a 300 yard zero, a few hundred fps is not something to get all worked up about. I would not have buyers remorse about having a .300 WinMag. They work beautifully and they are proven to be most accurate. I would certainly not feel that I was under-gunned in any event at normal ranges - out to 500 yards.

Every few weeks I spend a day on the 300 and 500 yard range with my LR varmint/target guns. I also shoot 1000 yards when I have the time and a willing spotter. Shooting at these distances is no picnic. In fact, many LR pontificators have been humbled at our gun club. Most have never shot these distances nor is their gun properly set up to even begin to safely hit the backstop.

In any event, the Ultra fits will with LR hunting and target shooting.

Zero Drift:

Thanks for the actual drop figures. It is irrelavent what range the zero is at. The actual difference in drop over 500 yards is still less than one minute of angle.

If you use a longer barrel and higher pressure load in the Ultra and a moderate load in a shorter barreled Winchester, this difference might stretch to one MOA or more. Still, the difference in the two at five hundred yards will be less than one-fifth the thickness of an elk's body.

Is five inches flatter trajectery over five hundred yards easier to hold for? Yes. How much easier? Not much. Is the Ultramag a good long range cartridge? Yes. Is it worth the trade-offs for its advantage over the .300 Winchester? Again, you be the judge.

my load uses the 180 balisticsilvertip with 98 gr RL25 for 3435.heres the particulars.

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SPEED KILLS

Eric:
Have you used, or ran the numbers, on the 240 grain match king, from Sierra?

gs

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I love 45
santilli@singleaction45.com

The .300 H&H is still the best of the breed. I have not seen any of the new super magnums used on African game. Forget the numbers on velocity I want a client that can shoot well with a 30'06 than can miss and flinch with the super magnums. A hit is better than a miss regardless of horse power in this case

Socrates....I have the info you are looking for.If you want it throw me an e-mail with your ?'s

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I HUNT LONG RANGE.AND YES I USE MATCHKING'S.

my scanner is down so i will try and type it.240 SMK at 3000 fps.
yards vel energy path drift
0 3000 4797 -2.00 0
100 2869 4388 3.02 0.20
200 2742 4008 3.83 0.81
300 2618 3655 0 1.86
400 2498 3327 -8.90 3.39
500 2381 3022 -23.36 5.41
600 2267 2740 -43.95 7.97
700 2156 2479 -71.31 11.11
800 2047 2234 -106.13 14.88
900 1941 2009 -149.27 19.32
1000 1839 1803 -201.70 24.49

the 180 is a little flatter but the 240 is way yonder better in the wind and has alot more energy at long range.

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SPEED KILLS