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Lots of talk around here in northcentral PA about no deer in the mountains and few in the farm ground. The 3 point rule in PA is supposed to give us more and larger racked bucks. Yes, after 3 years, there are some nice bucks being shot but the overall buck population does not seem to be increasing. We're not seeing the 1 1/2 year olds that we think we should be seeing. Of course we can shoot mature does for meat but that directly cuts the number of bucks born to grow into quality mature bucks. No does no future bucks. Anyone else noticing this trend? | ||
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My guess is that it will take longer for the bucks to appear. I remember reading somewhere that the plan to bring back quality deer to Pa. was a 10 year plan. Just hang in there, it will be better. By the way-- I spent many years hunting in Pa. with an uncle in the Dubois/Clearfield area. That is a wonderful part of the world! | |||
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I hunted in Ulster Co. NY this fall and everyone noticed a drop in deer population. The biggest thing we noticed was the almost total absence of fawns. Saw one in a 5 day hunt, can't repopulate without replacements. Saw lots of yote tracks though. | |||
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I know some long range shooters up in area G2. They can watch 6 or more mountain sides all day and some saw 5 deer or less. If we have a hard winter deer hunting in that zone is about finished. Write your local congressman about this travisty. Gary Alt and the DNR have sold us down the river. They should have banned antlerless hunting in this zone last yr and this yr just to recover from the mass slaughter of the bonus tag boondogle. For more on this mess see: web page | |||
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Where are all the deer in northern PA?? Dead, I suspect. Just like all the deer in the rest of the state. I have seen a BIG decrease in the number of deer this year. I would estimate a 50 percent reduction in the area around my home. You can't kill six to eight deer per family for 2 years in a row and then bitch about the lack of deer to kill. As stated above - we may need to stop killing all does for a year or 2 to recover. An unlikely event. | |||
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I don't hunt there, but I have travelled there a few times over the last year or so, and spent some time outdoors. I noticed that there are very, very few deer around, especially compared to my area of the state. The only people who are going to be able to do anything about the problem is hunters. It will take an organized effort to get the PAGC's attention. Even from Alt's own comments, its clear that the goal is to kill off the deer because they've been cutting into timber companies' profits. Hunters interests are secondary, and they used the lure of bigger bucks to get hunters to buy into it. There are still lots and lots of deer in my area, which is mostly private farm land. I probably saw 40 or 50 deer during firearms season, and I was only out 5 times. | |||
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I think you just need to look somewhere else. I see deer daily just driving around. The Allegheney National Forest has been eaten by deer. Not much left but ferns and mature hardwood as a result. The deer I cut up this year have been the fattest I've ever seen. | |||
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I have hunted NE PA for alot of years. Mostly Susquehanna County. Deer numbers there are way down, except isolated pockets on posted land. The scariest thing isn't the lack of deer in PA. It is how much division and infighting among PA hunters that this new deer management program has produced. PA hunters are more divided than ever. This makes for a dangerous situation for PA hunters protecting their hunting rights. | |||
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Quote: In my freezer.  | |||
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I support the antler rules as I think they're needed to let bucks mature but the deer herd overall in most of Pa has been devastated. I hunt mostly in Elk and Cameron counties, occasionally Butler. My relatives tell me that they see few deer in Butler Co compared to just a few years ago. I've hunted the northern tier for 49 years now and have never seen it so poor. I travel deep into the woods and still see far fewer deer than just two years ago. I did average about 6 deer sighting a day but not a single buck..not even a small one. I saw one buck killed a nice fork horn shot by a junior hunter (legal for them) but no good bucks. Very little shooting for that area too. I think there's a real big miscalculation at work in Pa and what a shame. It used to be a great deer hunting state but only medicore now. | |||
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I don't think it's a miscalculation at all. I read a story in the local paper here (Pittsburgh Post-Gazette), that quoted Alt as saying that hunters are not meeting his goals for reducing the deer herd, especially in the forested areas in the central part of the state. Alt wants to get deer numbers way down, and it looks like he's succeeding. One of the major problems Alt stated was that deer are decimating Oak forests, and if you ask me, its uncontrolled logging that's doing that, and doing it exceedingly well, in my part of the state. Deer can't chop down 100 years worth of forest growth in a couple of days. It is true that high deer numbers aren't great for the recovery of over-logged forests though. I wouldn't call the deer herd devastated around here. I see literally hundreds of them every week. However, most of the land is posted private property, and sees relatively few hunters, so the deer aren't getting killed at the same rate. | |||
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I hunted two days in Cameron county and saw two deer. The numbers dropped too dramitically over the last few years to be blamed solely on hunting. There are many remote areas where few hunters are reaching, and the deer population is not greater. So my guess(s) are bear, coyote, winter kill, poor logging practices and lack of mast crop due to acid rain. | |||
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In the clear cuts. Saw deer and deer sign all the first week in Potter but my guess the big boys are hidden in the cuts. Shot a coyote the first morning. A 225gr partition at 3100fps makes a mess of a dog at 30yds. | |||
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They're still there, just not in the artificially overpopulated numbers that we have grown accustomed to. I support the PA GC's plan, and think it's working. Yes, I saw fewer deer this year, but like I said, I think PA hunters have been spoiled by seeing so many deer in past years. As for the antler restrictions not working, I also disagree. Within half a mile of my place (Clarion County), there was a heavy 20" 8 point, and BIG 11 point, and a nice 13 point taken, in the first week. (The 11 and 13 points had been seen running my place earlier). These are the ones I know about. We saw a real nice 10 point, twice, but both times in the headlights after dark. (Nope, couldn't find him during the day, and as far as I know, he's still running.) I hunted a buddy's place this year about a mile from mine. In archery season, guys saw four legal bucks there in one valley of about 300-400 acres. Not bad. I hate to say it, because I was born & raised hunting in PA, and will until I die, but to the typical PA deer hunter, the most important thing is to be able to walk into work on Tuesday and say "Yep, got my buck, how about you?". It's always been about numbers and "killing a buck", regardless of size, rack, etc. Hunter, to himself, in the woods... "That buck got horns? Yep, I see some spikes on him. Get him! Heck he may even be a forkie! Kill him!!" Now that guys need to hunt a little longer & a little harder, they're upset. In regards to the huntingpa.com website, that place is a joke. They do nothing but fight there. I quit going to it a couple years ago, because it is so hostile. They should rename it wewanttokilleverything.com or wehatealt.com or sundayhuntingisus.com. Too bad too, cause I would like to find a place to visit about PA hunting that was enjoyable, but that place certainly isn't it... | |||
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I hunt mainly in the adrondacks but I travel down to the southern tier of New York for late season hunting.(close to NPA) I agree that the numbers are down but I would like to say that the deer herd is healthy.It just takes a little longer to find them. Most people that I talk to are glad that they aren't eating their flowers and standing infront of their cars anymore. I think you will find that overbrowsing kills more deer then anything.If you don't believe it look at long Island. I hunted there last season for a day and they had a record deer 18 lbs at the check station. It wasn't a fawn!!!! | |||
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Cold Bore Where do you hunt in Clarion County? My young cousin got a nice ten point from SGL 72, but I blanked. | |||
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Mike- I own some property on the river, near Knox. I keep hearing about guys that get good bucks off of the Game Lands... | |||
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Quote: Cold Bore: That was a good post. I agree that the liberal harvest of antlerless deer and small bucks has created a sub-culture among a majority of hunters that requires a dead deer to be part of the successful crowd. Whether the deer killed is a yearling or a spike does not matter. The problem that I have is that the killing of a large number of deer over the last 2 years in the areas that I hunt, which is mostly public access ground. The private/posted property and the land in and near populated areas has as many or more deer than ever. It would be nice to be able to concentrate the harvest where it is needed, but it is not possible to micro-manage the hunting seasons to that degree. I do not have the answer, but I know (or at least believe strongly) that some areas actually have TOO FEW deer rather than too many because of the liberal antlerless tags available and the hunters with the extra tags heading to the public ground. | |||
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I also agree with Cold Bore for the most part. I hunt McKean County in Northcentral PA for a week every archery season. I always buy my license late, so I never get an antlerless permit, and I've only had one shot at a legal buck in three years, but I am confident that I'll get a crack at a "good" buck eventually. I know that doesn't do anything for all you meat hunters. I can tell you that many of the "locals" in that area don't think a whole lot of the game laws - from shooting over the limit, not tagging, shooting non-legal bucks, etc. On top of that, I'm sure that few actually report their take. While I'm not a big fan of some of the PA Game Commission's ideas, how are they to come up with an detailed management plan when they can't rely on the hunters in the field to give them the information they need to get started, nor to abide by the rules that are part of the management plan? I hear most of the same complaints up here in NY - that the DEC issues too many doe permits, etc. Once again, I agree that we've just got too used to overinflated populations. Maybe I'm just more patient than others, but in the long run I see a smaller deer population that is healthier because the habitat will improve (less overbrowsing), diseases spread slower, and mature bucks will have to travel more to find does. On a positive note, I hear that the cougar population is really taking off. One local told me that the "Green" boys got a picture of one with kits on their trailcam, while the local farmer heard about a horse that was pulled down and killed by a cougar, and another guy said he saw one cross the road. At that rate we should have a cougar season in PA soon (especially since the Game Commission stopped stocking coyotes)  | |||
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I think a lot of it has to do with what part of PA you hunt. I think HR has heiped many sections of the state. Especially in areas where hunting is limited because of private land, more developement ect. In other parts of the state especially in the north central region where there is good hunting access the deer herds seem to be way down. I think the PA Game Comm. needs to look at there DPSM goals for certain areas and adjust them. You have to remember that most of the guys that are saying that the PA program is working are in areas where the dpsm (deer per square mile) are way above what PA actually wants. If and when these goals are met these area may not be what hunters expected. I am not saying what PA has done is good or bad I am just saying that they need to study what is happening and make adjustments. And they need to do these adjustments for the benifit of PA hunting not on revenue from license sales. | |||
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Gary Alt the founder of the controversial Pa deer program has announced his retirement. This should add fuel to the fire in PA. | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting American Big Game Hunting Where are all the Deer in northern PA ??
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