I�m having problem with my .358 Norma Magnum. Got kissed big time on the forehead, right between the eyes, using a Europen 4-10x scope. However, I also tried a Leupold VIII 1,5-5. The Leupold did not poke me in the eye when I was using it at about 3x, havn�t dared to try it on 5x. My problem is that I would like a bigger scope, say a 3-9. Been looking at a used Leupold VII 3-9x40. Do you think this scope will spare me head, or is it maybe just me not able to handle the 358?

Evevry advice is wellcome, I do like the gun,

PM

Pink,

Welcome to the forum.

We shoot quite a number of big bore rifles fitted with Leupold scopes, all seem to have plenty of eye relief.

May be you should try not to get your head as close to the scope as you are doing now.

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saeed@ emirates.net.ae

www.accuratereloading.com

Pink Moose (I won't ask)

Welcome to the forum. Don't worry, many folks wear the �Optical Crescent Moon� as a badge of honor. Doesn�t do much for the flinches however. That takes a lot of shooting time to forget.

Leupold scopes retain a more constant eye relief throughout their power settings than many other brands. I suppose that you were shooting off a bench at the time of your intersection with the scope. You should consider your methods of shooting off the bench. A good rest and plenty of Protektor rest bags will help. Also, always grip the fore end of the stock - especially when shooting off the bench. Adjust your seat, bags, and rest so that you are sitting more upright and not crouching over the gun.

Muscle bracing (not to be confused with tensing) is paramount in dealing with recoil. And above everything else, move with the recoil impulse. Your body must move in unison with the gun. It is a given that the gun is going to move when you pull the trigger. If it gets a running start, or you attempt to fight it, you will soon discover that scar tissue bleeds more than a fresh tissue cut.

Finally, you may want to consider a Swarovski scope. They have a padded and spring loaded ocular. It takes the sting and blood out of getting bumped by your scope.

Sounds like you have a problem with scope mounting. Make sure you slide it forward as far as possible while still maintaining a full view. Leupolds have very good eye relief. The power setting should not make a difference in the ER.Good luck.

Thanks alot for your input guys. Actually I was standing up shooting when I got the scar. It was the second shot I fired, the first one was fired using 4x but when I inrcreased to 10x, I got hit. The scope was a Pecar Berlin 4-10x45. It has always worked fine on my .243Win.
Interesting to hear about the Swarovskis. I looked them up and saw that the variable scopes had an eye relife of about 3", that is a lot shorter than on the Leupold. Are the older Swarovskis also fitted with a "scope bite protector"? I would prefera used scope.

PM

Use a Leupold. The euroscopes has better optics but the eyerelief is just not enough for heavy recoil IMO. The worst scope bite I ever got was from a Pecar scope. I shot the the shotgun barrel instead of the riflebarrel on a combination gun, prone, by mistake. OUCH it hurt!! Make sure you can mount the Leupold enough forward on the rifle. Otherwise you might consider going to a fixed Leupold which can be mounted more forward. The springloaded swarovski ocular hurts too. It only takes a little longer to be clubbed to death with a padded stick than with a unpadded stick

PM - Look at the Swarovski 1.5 - 6X and the 2.5 - 10X in the 30 mil tube. Both have a constant 3.75" eye relief. I have the 1.5X - 6X on my .450 Dakota and the 2.5 - 10X on a .416. I have never experienced any problems with eye relief.

The Leupold Vari-X III in the 1.5 - 5X has 5.3" to 3.7" of eye relief. The Vari-X III in 3.5 - 10X has 4.6" to 3.6" of eye relief. In short, there is very little difference between the Leupold and Swarovski, except the Swarovski offers a padded and spring loaded ocular.

As Rob1SG stated, move your scope as far forward in the rings as you can while still maintaining a full field of view in the scope. If you are getting smacked while standing, you must be creeping up on the scope before you pull the trigger.

If all else fails, there is always open sights. Never heard of anyone getting smacked by them....

PM,

Have you shot this gun much? It sounds like you just started shooting it, and to get whacked the first couple of times you squeeze the trigger is always nerve-wracking. Also, if you got nailed between the eyes rather than on the eyebrow leads me to suspect that you need to hold onto the gun a little firmer so it moves straight back. Now if you had gotten whacked over your eye I might suggest something different, like scope positioning, but if the gun sounds like it is moving sideways on you that is something you can concentrate on. As Zero Drift points out it starts bleeding better the second time around, one of my best memories is when I -almost- got kissed, I felt it brush my eyebrow, then I immeditately fired a second round without thinking good about it or changing my grip or anything and got really smacked!

f you have irons you might want to shoot a few rounds with those first to get used to the gun.

At any rate, good luck....

A different approach is that your stock is too short...Most scopes have enough eye relief...If this happened off hand then your stock is definately to short.

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

Pink, I had the very same problem and it seemed to be with any rifle or scope.I figured it was my technique. This is how I solved it. When I shoot a heavy recoiling rifle I take a firm grip on the forearm and then most importantly, I pull the rifle stock back into my shoulder snugly before I fire. That way the rifle does not get a running start to whack my forehead. I have not had a problem since I started doing this. I think the key is pulling the stock back into my shoulder firmly enough. I shoot a 300 magnum on 24X (swarovski) this way with no problem and very little eye relief.

PM - Ray brings up an excellent point. With your gun unloaded and bolt open - measure from the middle of the trigger to the middle of the butt.

What is the measurement?

What size shirt do you wear? i.e. 17" neck by 36" sleeve length.

[This message has been edited by Zero Drift (edited 10-30-2001).]

All of the above. A good Leupold should provide enough eye relief, scope forward, head back. Experiment with this until you get a feel for where max eye relief distance is, then make sure the butt of the stock is firm against your shoulder. It may seem akward at first but a little practice should make it feel more natural. Then if thats not enough I would try alterations. Longer stock or perhaps a firmer shoulder pad or different scope.

Thanks everyone!

I sure got lots of advice and know i�ve also checked my gun a little. I�ve fired about 100 rounds with the gun, all of them 250 grainers at about 2700fps. Before this i had also used a Ruger in 338 with a Bushnell scope that didn�t cause any problems. I think the problem I had was that I put the first scope too far back, close to my head; the Pecar scope had too short eye relief about 2.5" at 10x; and that i didn�t hold the gun properly. BTW I also found a nice scope, a 25 year old Leupold 6x42. What do you think about this one?

Forgot to tell you that the stock is absolutely not to short.

thanks,

PM

[This message has been edited by Pink Moose (edited 10-31-2001).]

Moose,

I feel your pain. My .358 Norma nibbled at me off the bags a couple of times.

It weighs 9.5 lbs. fully rigged and empty with a Burris 2x7.

Shooting from field positions it will just tap my eyeglasses.

I thought about going to a 1x5x but I'll stick to the 2-7x.

To tell the truth, given the size game that cartridge is geared for, a fixed 3x would be fine and give plenty of eye relief. A serious hunter is going to have field glasses for spotting anyway. (But I will admit having a little extra magnification on the rifle is nice come shot making time.)

My 350 is a ruger on which the stock was changed for a brown precision kevlar stock.
I also own a rem 7 Ks in the same caliber.

The two rifles weight 3.1kg scope included.
The ruger is much easier to shoot, I feel because of the design of the stock.

A wide, straight stock, with a well designed pistol grip will do more for comfort than any surplus weight.
My two euro cents...

olivier

I've been in your shoes on a Colorado hunt before. After trying several gun dealer for a scope padding. They said the ocular rubber pad is no longer available. I bought three from the website. www.cheaperthandirt.com. I put one on my kids rifles as well as mine. No more kisses between the eyes.

quote:

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Originally posted by Pink Moose:
I�m having problem with my .358 Norma Magnum. Got kissed big time on the forehead, right between the eyes, using a Europen 4-10x scope. However, I also tried a Leupold VIII 1,5-5. The Leupold did not poke me in the eye when I was using it at about 3x, havn�t dared to try it on 5x. My problem is that I would like a bigger scope, say a 3-9. Been looking at a used Leupold VII 3-9x40. Do you think this scope will spare me head, or is it maybe just me not able to handle the 358?

Evevry advice is wellcome, I do like the gun,

PM

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Please allow me to share a recoil war story. I had occasion to use my PH's rifle. It happened to be a Harris Talon in .460 Weatherby that was far too light. His ammunition was stout loads around a 500 Barnes X. It had a Leupold 1.5x-4.5 III that was otherwise mounted properly. I used it from the prone position on a Thompson gazelle, as that was what the stalk circumstances required. While I had shot this rifle before from the standing position, that was mere child play compared to the effect when you are anchored to the ground prone! Trigger and middle finger lost noticeable chunks, and I still have a "460 Weatherby badge of courage" above my eyebrow.

P.S. Yes, the .460 is enough gun on a Tommy!

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"shoot 'em if you got 'em!"