Just completed hosting a deer hunt for kids - ages 12 -14. Overall success was pretty good for an overpopulated antlerless only rifle hunt. Had 21 hunters take 30 deer in 1 1/2 days. Make 'em shoot from ground blinds and must have an adult along to help in shot selection, safety, etc.

The problem is the poor shooting. Had one youngster shot 15 times to kill 2 deer! Reported 1 wounded and lost. Two other kids shot 11 times each. Another killed 2, but wounded 3 others. Two other kids wounded and lost 2 each.

Up to this point, we have had pretty good success in the 5 years we have hosted the hunt - (130 kids have taken 221 deer) and the shooting has been on par with the adults who have participated in another hunt. Haven't had this many wounded and lost before.

This trend really disturbs me. I'm considering a proficiency test for future hunts before they can go to the woods. I'm beginning to suspect that several haven't shot a rifle before they show up for the hunt.

Any thoughts?

A proficiency test is appropriate, and could be made competetive and fun for the kids.

I bet the kids that shot poorly and didn't retrieve wounded deer would feel much better about their experience had they shot well and gotten the deer they shot.

I work with a group that sponsors physically challenged and youth hunts where I work and I find that poor marksmanship and firearm selection is very common. I thinking some sort of proficiency test (large paper plate at 50 yards?) and firearms/caliber/bullet restrictions. It is really sad what most people don't know about firearms, and somewhat scarier is what they "know".

Redlander,
The comment about caliber hits home with me, but is sure to start a debate among other viewers. I see both ends of the spectrum here on our hunts: a bunch of .223 shooters and a bunch of .300 Win Mag shooters. I'm not sure either are appropriate for the average 12 year old. The .223 will kill in the hands of someone who can shoot, but doesn't leave much of a blood trail when the shot is not immediately fatal. The .300 evokes fear - and fear leads to flinch - and flinch leads to wounding. I spent lots of hours during the last hunt following up deer with one front leg dangling. Not immediately fatal, but a probable death sentence nonetheless.

AZ Pete, Pie plate at 50 yards was exactly what I had in mind, but the thought of a friendly competition had escaped me. Good suggestion!

There is nothing wrong with a proficiency test of some type with the rifle to be used. In fact, it is to be admired. The kids that shoot well probably come from familes where shooting is frequent; those who shoot poorly probably come from families where the rifle is never even sighted in before hunting season. In my opinion, and I am a hunter ed instructor, kids that age have no business shooting a 300 Win Mag.
Shame.

Agree with Acer. .223 for the right 12 yr old will definately take a Whitetail. Many people don't like the idea, but hey...My son took his first Louisiana doe with a .223. Not factory ammo, 60 grain bullet and downloaded but would still cycle the Ruger Ranch Rifle he used. Kid could outshoot me with his BB rifle at 10 and knew the rules. One shot, one deer. Two shots, better be two deer.
Even a little practice helps. No 12 yr old should be saddled with a 300 mag. 243 or 260/6.5x55 would be a much better choice.

After a summer of .22 LR gopher shooting,then centerfire shooting I had a 16 year old that was competant to 250 yds with a .300 WM.
Problem WAS each time we saw an elk he got BUCK FEVER. His shooting skills went out the window when there was game in front of the barrel.
I wonder if "buck fever" isn't part of the problem??

FN in MT

Acer,

I think the perfect gun/caliber for this sort of hunt is a sinlge shot 30-30 with a 2x red dot sight. Barring that a .308 with reduced recoil loads.

Under my direct supervision, my 11 yo nephew took his first deer last year with a Model 7 in 260 Rem.

And the debate is not really about the .223 vs. 300 Win Mag. But a .410 slug, 22 Hornet, 9mm Luger carbine, etc. vs. any that is really reasonable for harvesting average size white-tailed deer. And we are not talking about the hunter dad taking his child to the family hunting lease, but a father, or mother, that have never done this sort of thing before.

A whole bunch of kids are starting hunting with deer. Not a traditional approach to the sport - of course tradition is pretty much out the window these days, but perhaps a little time on smaller game might teach gun handling, shot selection, and the ability to shoot accurately with a little pressure on the line. I think it is somehow sad that so few kids start out with small game hunting.

Yes, some manage it well, but others do not. Many others in your case.

Not surprisingly most of the solutions here are technological. The problem is not the rifle.

Brent

The solution isn't to start kids hunting squirrels or grouse with a 22.

The solution is to teach them marksmanship! That means going to a range and teaching them to actually shoot from field positions (starting with prone), and to teach them some of the simple theory of ballistics so they have a clue about what they are doing.

The problem is that today most American men and boys think they are born natural shots and can hit anything they want as far as they want. They know all, and refuse to listen to instructions. For that reason I strongly prefer to coach and teach women. They actually listen and apply what they are taught.

I shot in my club's sporting rifle match this Sunday. It's 2 sighters and 8 shots for score from prone (slow fire) then 8 shots standing, 8 shots sitting rapid fire, and 8 shots prone rapid fire. A lot of guys who are causal shooters attend this because it can be done with any scoped hunting rifle and no special target shooting equipment (except for a mil issue sling) is allowed. It is all done at 200 yards on the generous NRA 200 yd HP target.

I was amazed at how badly about 3/4 of the participants did. Some incredibly badly.

For the record, it is ridiculous that hunting licenses can be purchased in the United States without having to pass a marksmanship test.

HP,
A thread of nearly identical nature is occuring on Accurate Reloading. A kid's hunt for deer result in some kids shooting up to 15 times and wounding and loosing deer. While marksmanship was lacking some of the post and some other posters have suggested that shooting game under pressure is a strong culprit. When a child is confronted with shooting something as big or bigger than his or herself, perhaps undesireable things happen more often than if they have had experience on smaller game.

A friend whose son shot his first animal (7 pt whitetail) had this experience this year. Although his son was well practiced and the father was present to help with shot selection etc., the result was less than ideal, though it all worked out okay in the end.

My wife started hunting with me, and we started on squirrels for a few seasons. Her subsequent "luck" on deer was anything but luck. Indeed, although she was nervous, her experience on smaller game with lower preceived pressure gave her the ability (confidence?) to overcome that nervousness. The deer never have a chance with her as a result. BTW, she uses a percussion rifle, so much for the technology solution...

Granted she was not a child, but that only exacerbates the problem.

Marksmanship is important, but so is experience at taking life. Somehow the small game seem to provide that with better results in my opinion.

Brent

I appreciate all the replies, but I really don't want to get bogged down in the details of gun selection. The state mandates what is legal - and I'm hoping that the parent has enough common sense to evaluate the kid's size, strength, and abilities - and selects a gun appropriate to the need. Some do an excellent job. Others are clueless. The worst offenders fall into a couple of different categories. 1) Semi-automatics for a beginner. The kids that I see shoot 5 or 10 or 15 times (I think the record here was 17 shots) are usually shooting a SKS, .30 carbine or Mini-14 and employ the "spray and pray" approach. The second approach that fails is being over-gunned. One youngster couldn't have been 75 pounds soaking wet and was using a .30-06. NOTHING against the round - but the gun didn't fit, and the kid was having a problem (missed 3 deer within 60 yards). They switched to a .270 and Dad took him to the range to recheck the zero - and he nailed the first doe that walked by. I don't think the bigger gun made that much difference, but he was probably scared of the reputation - and a little range time convinced him he could do it with a different gun.

The issue I'm exploring here is what do you think about a mandatory proficiency test? Its going to be a time consuming practice, but I think it will pay off. The secondary issue will be "what do I do with the kids that can't hit a pie plate 2 out of 3 shots at 50 yards?" Send them home, or take more time to instruct the kid before he can head to the field? I don't mind doing that, but I've seen too many parents in the stands at litte league games to think that there won't be a problem with Daddy. Had one uncle this past hunt that spent a day and a half berating his nephew because he missed 3 deer. It was terrible to watch.

If I require a shooting test, they'll have to arrive a half day early in order to run everyone through the range before the hunt - but if it will stop the crippling loss, it will be well worth it.

Thanks for your suggestions!

Acer,
I take a lot of first timers hunting and range work is ALWAYS done first. I would discourage you from using the term "proficiency test" with them as it may take away from the experience. Anybody with proper coaching can kill a deer. The range work shouldn't take long, an hour or so. Explain the basic fundamentals of safety and marksmanship allowing them to handle the guns and answer specific question. They will actually like this as it is something they are all obviously interested in. To handle the buck fever is the coaches part. Make sure they keep them calm all the way through. Lastley I would limit distances to under 100 yards or closer if possible. In Texas all young hunters have to take Hunters Education, maybe getting the handbook and doing a like lesson would help.

Acer,
Sounds like your program is a great opportunity to get some kids involved in hunting that might not have otherwise had the chance. Hats off to you for that. If I were in your position, I would definitely want to know that the kids had some good range time under their belt before taking them hunting. Unfortunately, a lot of kids end up learning to shoot from adults who don't have good knowledge of firearms safety and sound shooting fundamentals themselves. Kids need to have a gun that they are comfortable with and not afraid of, as well as someone who is patient enough to invest some quality time showing them the ropes. I've been a hunter safety instructor, and it really riles me to see "Little League Dad" ragging on his kids for missing the target rather than trying to boost their confidence with a little positive encouragement. Some of these guys act like their manhood is on the line if their kid is having a tough time, and that's no way to keep a kid interested in becoming a good shooter or hunter. The worst case I've seen was a guy and his kid that I ran into while hunting several years ago. The kid had been struggling and missed three or four deer that day, and his dad got so frustrated with the kid that he took the rifle and shot the kid's deer for him. Dad relayed the whole story to us while his kid stood around staring at his feet and kicking at the dirt, wanting to be anyplace but there. Great parenting skills, I'm sure that kid is looking forward to hunting season every year...Anyway, good luck with your future hunts, hopefully the shooting's better next time.

quote:

Originally posted by HP Shooter:
The problem is that today most American men and boys think they are born natural shots and can hit anything they want as far as they want. They know all, and refuse to listen to instructions. For that reason I strongly prefer to coach and teach women. They actually listen and apply what they are taught.

This has been my experience as well. I have the opportunity to provide training for some of our hunting test candidates most years. It is often easier to get female shooters to react to the training - male candidates often seem to have preconceived ideas of how best to shoot. Granted, most of the male candidates have some shooting experience from the military, and that helps in terms of managing sight picture and trigger control.

So I guess it is not just American men, who are "born natural shots". I try hard to get people to believe in the fact, that shooters are trained, not born.

I'm sure my "system" for providing training is not perfect, not least because I have never received any formal training myself, so I have basically had to dream up my own system to get other people to shoot. The shot itself is really just the "tip of the iceberg", and to get consistent good results, you have to build up a solid foundation. So position is really important to me, and what you must think of before you think of anything else. Then comes breathing, sight picture and trigger control. It would be interesting to hear how you teach your students.

Btw, for us ignorant foreigners, please describe slow and rapid fire...

- mike

Mike, the NRA Sporting Rifle match borrows its format from the NRA Highppower Rifle match, which borrows its format from the military basic rifle marksmanship course.

Rapid fire, in sporting rifle, is 30 seconds to execute four well aimed shots. Since each stage of the match has 8 shots for record, the rapid fire stages consist of two 4 round sequences. Time begins when the target is exposed from the butts. In Sporting Rifle, shooters begin the stage in position (sitting or prone with rifle loaded and aimed downrage). In Highpower (ten shots per sequence with a mandatory reload in each, 60 sec for sitting, 70 sec for prone), shooters beging the RF stage standing with the magazine loaded but chamber empty and must assume the position and then close the action when the targets are exposed. Targets are marked for score and shot location at the end of each sequence.

Slow fire is the same for both disciplines, 1 minute per shot, for as many record shots as necessary. The target is pulled down and marked for shot location and score every shot.

The state of Colorado offers some special Youth hunts that the youth must fill out an application well in advance and send in a target with an 8" bull on it having shot 5 shots at it and have it verified by an adult. There is also a caliber restriction of .277 but keep in mind these are Deer, Elk , Antelope hunts, if it were deer and antelope only I think they would post a .243 minimum.
I think the poor shooting that you were witness to has to do with the little league mentality mentiond before, can you picture the excited dad nearly yelling SHOOT! SHOOT! when the animal walks out, this is not going to have a calming effect that helps that kid complete the shot. The other thing I'm sure of is lack of practice with that gun and possibly the gun not even being sighted in.
Require them to send in a target shot with the rifle they will use with their application may help alleviate some of the accuracy issues.

I still think that a shooting test (call it whatever PC, non-intimidating name you like) peformed the day of the hunt and verified by someone other than the "Dad from hell" is what should be done in this particular instance.

I wish there were a "one size fits all" solution to the crippling loss. I have tried to remove as many variables as possible by building a bunch of blinds close to well worn trails so that the average shot SHOULD BE no more than 60 yards. The kids shoot from a sitting position inside the blind with the rifle rested on a tightly stretched heavy gauge wire.

What actually happens in the field - I don't know. I find gut piles 100 to 150 yards from the blind, which lead me to believe that the kid gets antsy to shoot and the Dad doesn't make him/her wait for the best shot.

I also know that punching holes in paper isn't the same as killing a deer. There are a whole bunch of things going on when a trophy doe steps out in front of a 12 year old newbie. Buck fever, pressure (internal and external) to succeed, fear of not performing well in front of Dad or Uncle Ned - and in this day and age of video cameras the whole event is usually recorded for Mom and the whole world to see.

I have worked at places that require a shooting test before the hunt. Ethical folks will abide by the rules, unethical folks will skirt them. In that regard, I'm leery of having a target mailed in witnessed by Dad. I have a friend who works at a place in Colorado where they have a bonus elk hunt. They require a proficiency test that consists of firing something like 2 of 3 shots in a paper plate at 150 yards. He said they have an 80% failure rate. I'm a cynical bastard, but I don't think the results would be that bad if the opportunity were there to pencil whip a target to make sure Junior got to go hunt.

What's a reasonable expectation for standards? How many shots, what size target, how far away?

Thanks again for everyone's input.

3 shots @ 100 yards from a rest in an 8" circle.


My boy who is 12 years old shoots his .284 Win from sitting and bipod at 100 yards in a 4" to 5" circle- 5 shots. From the bench he shoots a 2" 5 shot group.

quote:

Originally posted by AZ Pete:
A proficiency test is appropriate, and could be made competetive and fun for the kids.

Not only appropriate, but I'd make it mandatory.

I am teaching my girlfriend how to shoot.I started with a 22 Ruger 10/22 with a scope.She had shot about 30 years ago.I bought a 250 savage for the next step.I will work her up to a 338 win mag with a brsake on it.I took my nephew two years ago.I took 13 guns for him to shoot.He shot 22s ,243s,308s my 375 jdj and my 264 win mag.I always asked if he wanted to try a bigger gun.I didnt let him shoot my 338.I will in about 3 years.Yes semiautos teach kids that if they dont make the first shot that they have a bunch more shells to shoot.The mini 14 is a good taining gun but it is not a good deer rifle.The 223 is a deer gun for experts not beginners.I shot a Remington 742 semiautomatic 243 and 30-06 growing up from the age of 12.I killed alot of deer with both but I lost some listing to a sporting goods guy instead of my dad.I used some 125 gr 30-06 bullets that wounded one of the biggest buck I have ever seen.We trailed him over a mile.Another guy shot him before I got him and got the deer before I got there.I think the 260 Remington is one that missed the boat for a good kids gun.Its alot better than the 243 and does not kick hard.Its disapearing now and will be gone pretty soon.I think another problem is light weigh guns that wobble instead of holding steady.I think from a rest a kid can shoot a 8 pound rifle alot better than a light barreled rifle that wobbles like crazy.Its takes lots of practice.I use to shoot about twice a week growing up as a kid.It took me a few years not to be afraid of that 30-06 .I also started with open sites.Then I got cheap scopes that fogged or came apart.It was a long time later that I realized that there was a big difference in a $30 scope and a $200 scope at the time.I was amazed at how good I could see out of my first Niokon.I think its a shame to get a gun for a kid that he cant hit with and the scope sucks.I have a hunting buddy that I set up a nice rifle for him.It was a 375 winchester big bore 94 with a 3x9 scope on it.This kid was 75 pounds and about 4'9".The gun fit him perfict because he could not reach the trigger on bigger guns.It weighed around 8 pounds loaded.I loaded him 100 rounds to hunt with.He shot it good and poracticed with it.Then he went shooting with this guy who knew it all.He talked him into sell the winchester I had set up for him anfd buying a wonderful 30-06 Remington model 710 combo with a scope.The rifle fit him horrible.He could hardly pull the trigger it was so long of a pull for him.The scope failed after about 20 shots.The rifle shot 4 to 5 inch groups.It also wont hold a zero something to do with that pressed on barrel.He had shot 1.5" groups with the winchester.I am going to get him a Ruger Model 77 with a Nikon scope on it .He has been my hunting buddy from the age od 10 to 16.I always reload him a bunch of shells or get him some if I find a good deal.He shot a moose for the first time this year .I was proud of the hunter I had turned him into.He shot his first big game animal two caribou with one shot with me when he was 11.If we dont get as many kids into hunting as quickly as possible its going to be gone as we know it in 50 years or less.I take every kid I can take as long as they promise to take hunter safety first then I teach them from there.I am working on my girlfriend she is a very hard bull to pull through the fence.She takes her hunter safety this weekend.Then she is going to get to learn how to shoot her new 100 remington 20 ga and 250 savage I just got for her.

I think that level of crippleing loss is appaling. I would have a fit if it were my hunting camp, and one way or another it would not happen again..sorry but JMHO

I don't think a skills test would be out of line and shouldn't be objectionable to potential hunters.

I hear you though on the "Little League Dad" thing. ( I coached until recently and cringe thinking about some of them) The kids need to be taught, and if it's made clear to the participants that a test will need to be done prior to the hunt, they should'nt be to bad. If it were possible to conduct the certification prior to the hunt they could have a few chances to pass. The poor instructing Dads could be pulled back from the shooter, so as not to be a problem. If the shooter fails then they can go away and practice, to try again. If you have repeat hunters you can send out info packets of whats expected, and explain the process. In Oregon they are using a "Master Hunters Program" that is like hunters safety for adults with a skills / proficiency test. This cert give credit points toward hunts. ( at least this is how it was explained to me) It seems to me to be a good idea. If it's made clear that passing this test is a pre-hunt requirement then the problem will go away to a great extent. If you are hosting then you should be allowed some stipulations.

If the situation won't allow pre-qualifying, you may be able to get voluteers to help man a range day to certify them the day before. Kids reflect what kind of instruction they get directly. From habits to skill. Nate

Elkman2,

I too think that is appalling - that's why I posted this thread! Unfortunately, I work on a public area and the "hunters" are drawn by the state via their Controlled Hunts Program, so I can't pick 'em. I just gotta make the best of what I'm sent!

BigNate,
Good suggestion about using volunteers. I was fixating on how we are going to conduct a hunt and provide remedial shooting training at the same time, but I'm sure I can find several well qualified volunteers that can work with kids.

As an aside, we've been focused on the proficiency (or lack thereof) of kids - our adult hunters do almost as poorly - averaging almost 3 shots per kill. Not that taking 3 shots is a bad thing, but a lot of thunters DO make one shot kills, and a few of them think nothing of emptying the magazine, pockets, and backpacks of ammo at a deer. I guess what's good for the goose is good for the gander - If we institute a shooting test for kids, we should use it for the adults too...

quote:

Originally posted by Acer:
If we institute a shooting test for kids, we should use it for the adults too...

Absolutely.

I absolutely agree on the marksmanship test prior to being able to hunt. My first big game kill did take me 2 shots with my .243. I got buck fever and missed my antelope with the first shot. He didn't move 15 feet after my second shot hit him.

Prior to being able to hunt, my stepfather took me to the range and inessence made me pass a marksmanship test. He had me shoot off of the bench to get comfortable with the rifle and then other postitions such as prone, sitting with a bipod.

If you ever go to Scotland to stalk deer, the first thing the Ghillie will do when you arrive is to ask you to "demonstrate that your rifle is zeroed". This generally means you need to be able to shoot a 3 shot 4" group at 150 yards. This is from a field position, usually prone. The only rest you can use is your daypack, or bipod if your rifle is wearing one.

If you can't shoot the group, you don't get out on the hill. That said, if coaching is required, they will generally try to help.

A good friend and member of our congregation holds a "sight-in" day for the church (and community) about a month before the season. He also will host an early summer shoot, "just for fun."

We ask the local sporting goods store to donate some equipment and a few prizes, have a barbeque, and it's a great time.

It's fundamental purpose, however, is simple: give people the opportunity to verify their rifle's sight picture, along with as much practice shooting as possible.

Kudos to you, Acer, for being so generous and committed to youth and hunting!

friar

Acer,
You have some tough calls to make, but you have here exhibited an open mind that coupled with your compassion for both animals and kids involved indicates you are more than up to the challenge.
As a Hunter Ed instructor, I can relate to the know-it-alls, (Little League Dads), the problems they cause, and the future repercussions of those problems for their victims. In NH, we encourage parents to attend our classes and to sign up themselves even if already licensed. In our HE team, we do not let them near their kids during range instruction, actual shooting, or testing. It's usually easy to spot the parents (or other "interested" adults) who would cause problems in our situations where it might not be in yours.
As to "proficiency" testing, or whatever you choose to call it, four shots out of five on a paper plate at 75 or 100yds with the rifle to be used is fair and realistic. If you can effectively separate them from the "responsible adult" for the test, so much the better. If not, maybe a roll of duct tape would come in handy (only kidding, but still it would be nice sometimes...)
I would be tempted to make three lists of chamberings: (This is just a general list off of the top of my head, not intended as specific suggestions. I suspect that you would have more luck with a detailed list in each catagory both to avoid ambiguity and to help those parents who really don't have a clue make a more informed choice.)
1) Not powerful enough and/or too likely to wound - .22rf's, any small auto pistol rounds, .30carb, .223 and smaller-cased .22 CF's, .410 slugs, birdshot, buckshot.
2) Adequate & appropriate - .22-250 through 7-08, including .30-30, 7.62x39, .35Rem, .375W.
3) Too powerful for kids - .308 & -06, .358W, .444, .45-70, any large bore long action, any magnums, 12 & 10ga shotguns.
I would also forbid use the of any semi-auto or single shot action. Sometimes you need a follow-up shot, but you also need to try and prevent the spray&pray incidents.
Adults are completely forbidden to carry any firearms during our Youth Hunts, easily enforcable since they happen before our regular seasons open, maybe that would be a helpful or workable option for you, I don't know. The idea of exposure to small game hunting first is a great idea, and is in fact the ideal way to introduce someone to hunting, but, sadly, I cannot think of a practical way to make it workable in your situation, much as I would like to see it.
The other idea I had is to have several advance dates for shooting skills tests, like 3, 2, and 1 months before, where you would have a chance to inform/advise those parents who would listen as to appropriate chambering choices, and give those who were having trouble the chance to practice enough to gain proficiency in time to hunt. It would be a good opportunity for your local firearms instructors to schedule some courses, either volunteering or for fee, and so encourage more family participation in shooting sports.
I wish you well in your endeavor, a smart man makes his own luck with proper planning.

Acer,
Good Thread! I'm thinking maybe you need to contact your local Fish & Game to talk this over. I'm absolutley sure that they will put forth as much as they can to help the situation. If you talk to them soon,,,,maybe they can write in stipulations for next years hunt. Maybe they can have the draw a month or two in advance of the hunt and have it mandatory that the kids attend a course taught by you or another volunteer. Maybe this course could be a 3 day course, one day a week. At the end of this couse each kid would get a certificate of firearms usage that must be presented on the day of the hunt or else they cannot hunt. HMMMMMM, Just a thought. Good Luck

My sincere thanks for all who have provided input. When I posted this, I was really expecting a very few suggestions and a lot of pontificating. My respect for the members of this forum has multiplied tenfold!

I am especially impressed by the suggestions from the number of hunter education instructors who have taken the time to offer wisdom borne of experience. My hat's off to you.

To those who offered suggestions on rifles - that will be a harder nut to crack, but not an insurmountable problem. Thanks for resisting the urge to turn this thread into a debate on the relative merits of favorite calibers.

The decision to require some level of skill assessment - and the format that it will take - and the folks who will help accomplish this task - and a reasonable minimum standard - and a minimum firearm caliber are all begining to solidify thanks to your suggestions.

Thanks to all.

My counterpart from the state game agency just weighed in on the issue. He suggested we avoid any proficiency test (because of the complications if someone didn't pass) and offered instead that we limit the number of cartridges hunters can take to the field.

I have my own opinions, but I would like to hear yours.

Thanks

Acer,
We(Local SCI Chapter) just completed a youth deer hunt. We held a youth training event last August, those who completed the course were given priority choice in drawing to go on the deer hunt.
As it was our first time, we taught archery, rifle, using binocular, stalking, tracking with fake blood, clipped hair from different parts of deer, etc.
The participants had a great time, we had several new hunters (adult, single mom, etc), and so we now call it apprentice hunter training, instead of youth, or beginner. The instructors had a great time, I hope to post an article on this event and the deer hunt, as soon as I get all the pictures together. Some pics can be seen on Kentuckiana Safari Club International website.
We found at the deer hunt, that the kids that went through the training had fantastic firearms handling skills without being prompted in any way, and were much more calm and confident about the shooting. If it is practical, I highly recommend a shooting excersise prior to your hunt event, from what I saw, you will be happy with the results.
"Buck Fever" was still a big thing, one of the kids I guided had about ten times that a shooting opportunity might have developed, her little hands shook like a leaf in a storm. She had a great eye for locatig game, saw Quail walking in the forest, etc. She was just one of these kids that are driven to perform perfectly, and was so in awe of the game.
We are holding another training event, hopefully earlier in the summer, so it won't be so hot. I will try to post about it, if distance allows, you or your group could come and help, we could share ideas.
Bob Edwards
Louisville, KY USA

quote:

Originally posted by Acer:
My counterpart from the state game agency just weighed in on the issue. He suggested we avoid any proficiency test (because of the complications if someone didn't pass) and offered instead that we limit the number of cartridges hunters can take to the field.

I have my own opinions, but I would like to hear yours.

Thanks

If you can have shooting/safety clinics in advance, but not call them "tests" you would likely see an imnprovement. I'm sure the kids would enjoy the shooting practice.

Good luck whatever you do and I am glad you are so involved in bringing new hunters on board.

If you want to motivate young shooters give them clay pigeons to shatter at 50, water-filled milk jugs to explode at 100, and steel gongs to ring at 200. You'll have trouble getting them off the line. Once they're hungry for hits they become very coachable.

quote:

Originally posted by Acer:
My counterpart from the state game agency just weighed in on the issue. He suggested we avoid any proficiency test (because of the complications if someone didn't pass) and offered instead that we limit the number of cartridges hunters can take to the field.

I have my own opinions, but I would like to hear yours.

Thanks

What complications? This is your land, isn't it?

Pretty simple to me: can't shoot? CAN'T HUNT!!!!

Tell the wildlife manager that your terms are non-negotiable. If he doesn't like them, he can find some other land to hunt.

Letting people loose in the field with firearms when they do not have the ability to control where their shots go is irresponsible in the extreme.

quote:

Originally posted by mb:
If you want to motivate young shooters give them clay pigeons to shatter at 50, water-filled milk jugs to explode at 100, and steel gongs to ring at 200. You'll have trouble getting them off the line. Once they're hungry for hits they become very coachable.

This (reactive targets) is what has worked for us as well.

When I went on an Antelope Hunt a couple years ago the first thing the outfitter wanted to do was hit the range to verify the zero of my rifle to ensure nothing was nocked out of alignment in transit. This was required of every hunter. Some drove from TX, others flew, and I drove from MO. We all fired and made adjustments if required.

It also let the outfitter know who was familiar with their rifle and who could shoot or not. Yes it was very obvious who was familiar with their rifle and who was not as people either naturraly loaded and got ready and took the safety off or aukwardly loaded and had to hunt for the safety.

Some of his hunting grounds were more open than others and some were wuite broken up by stabilized grass covered dunes.

Call it whatever you want. The more proficiant get set places where the shot may potentially be longer. Those less proficient get placed in very shot restricted areas. Some may need more practice or require a different gun. Are you going to provide that different gun?

It is your Club or whatever. You get to make the rules. If they know they will be required to demonstrate proficiency when showing up they might practice more. Yes you can even state that refunds or partial refunds will be provided for those who fail to adequately demonstrate proficiency. You can even say no refunds will be permitted. Whatever.

Absolutely make it a requirement for the adults too. Just include it all in the brochure upfront.