The roe buck rut is in full swing where I stalk and I wanted to kill a couple of roebucks, ideally yearlings for management purposes. I stalked through a wood and ended up in a very thick wood mainly oak with thick shrub understorey. I took up a position on a ditch that affords a 40-yard view in either direction. I took out my roe call and started squeaking. Immediately the call was answered by a bark from a muntjac. I squeaked again and the response was a charge by two muntjac that ended 20 feet from where I was sitting. I could just make out the outline of one of the muntjac through the cover so I gave him a 100 gr Ballistic Tip from the 6.5x55 thought the chest quartering towards me. The other animal ran off but continued answering my call for 5 minutes. The munt I killed had gone about 20 feet before dropping. He was a nice big buck, two point either side and four inches on the left antler. The right antler had snapped off. He was in velvet but had just started fraying. His razor sharp canine measured 1 � inches on the curve. Ouch!

Check out those teeth �

I was carrying him back to my car when I came across a yearling roebuck with a very poor head lying down watching me. Obligingly he did not run off while I shot him though the neck at 80 yards. Standing, off the sticks.
Here is what they both looked like �

They are now residing in my deep freeze.

This is my first attempt at posting pictures...

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[This message has been edited by Deerdogs (edited 08-06-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Deerdogs (edited 08-06-2001).]

I know the roe deer is native to the British Isles, but what about the muntjac? Are they transplanted?

Stonecreek: The muntjac is a Far Eastern import. They were introduced to Britain about 120 years ago by the Duke of Bedford when it was all the rage to have exotic animals in your stately home. About the same time the American grey squirrel was introduced but don�t get me started on that subject � can�t kill enough of �em.
The muntjac has colonised the south of Britain and they breed like crazy. They are the best tasting venison in this country in my view. Good buck weighs in at 30lbs +. This fella was 26 lbs with the guts out. They are quite a challenging little deer to hunt. The bucks can be damned vicious and they are useful fighters those teeth. Many dogs have come off worse after trying to tackle one of the little chaps. Hard to skin � bit like a squirrel.

Regards

Funny you should mention squirrels. A friend and I were just talking about how we here in the States are over-run with exotics. We were waxing prophetic on how many North American species are impacting other areas around the world, but couldn't think of any off the top of our heads. Mind you we were thinking mainly of fish (my area of specialty), but your mention of the grey squirrel rattled my memory and now I have at least those as an example on the terrestrial side of things. I'm sure there are many others, but I guess we are all centered around our own little exotic war.

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Originally posted by Kernel:
Deerdogs,

Funny you should mention squirrels. A friend and I were just talking about how we here in the States are over-run with exotics.

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What are you overrun with in IL? I've heard of problems with hogs and sika deer in various places but that's about it unless you're not talking about big game.

Deerdogs, you and my girlfriend should get together and chat about gray squirrels some time. She is in an ongoing territorial conflict with a big one over possession of her front porch. Causes way more trouble than the raccoons or possums and this is in a built-up area of Washington, DC!

John

We do have feral hogs in some parts of the state. I am fairly new to Illinois so there may be other "big" game that I am not aware of at this time. I think the exotic big game concerns are a lot greater in other states. My initial thoughts and conversations were centered around fish. In that department, we have a plethora of exotics most everywhere in the U.S. Some are perceived as good some bad. Some of the non-natives from abroad that have or are wreaking havoc on native fish communities include common carp (for those from the U.K. sorry no respect for the noble carp here), bighead carp, brown trout, a whole host of African and South American cichlids from the aquaria and aquaculture industries, round goby, and on and on. The problems don't end with just species brought in from abroad as trout, salmon, striped bass, and many other sport and forage fish have been moved all over the U.S. beyond their native range. Not all of these introductions are recreationally or economically bad. In fact, I just caught several pounds of coho and rainbow trout in Lake Michigan a couple weeks ago and had a blast!!. However, we don't have a clear understanding of what these introductions can and will do to the existing fish communities. This may have much more resounding long-term effects that we cannot foresee. Anyway, sorry for the lesson in exotic fish species introductions in the big game forum. I'll get off my soap box.....before someone pushes me off!

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Didn't mean to rain on your parade with the whole exotic thing. I am entirely envious that you can get out any time you want to do a little stalking. However, as the temp creeps over 35 degrees here, it's not so bad being inside either. Keep up with the pictures and stories!!

K

Not a bad afternnons work at all! :-)

Do you often get Munties responding to the squeak?? I have heard of people calling munties does with a fawn squeak, but I've not
tried it myself.

Kernel,

You need to organise a return visit and have a go stalking these munties...really are great fun and quite difficult to still hunt.
A could maybe try for another Roe buck too!

Pete

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Originally posted by Pete E:
Do you often get Munties responding to the squeak?? I have heard of people calling munties does with a fawn squeak, but I've not
tried it myself.
Pete

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I have often stopped a running muntjac in its tracks by squeaking a roe call. They tend to stop just long enough to put a bullet through them, but I find a squeak will not hold them for more than a couple or three seconds. I have killed a few dozen of muntjac like this. The call is the doe-in-season call, not the fawn alarm call.
Sunday�s event where I was calling for roe and two munties immediately ran in from different angles is a first for me. Knowing what territorial and aggressive little critters they are I think they were simply investigating a strange noise on their patch and looking for a fight
I read Fred Spencer-Chapman�s excellent book �The Jungle is Neutral� in which the author describes how he escaped the Japanese capture of Singapore in 1941, and spent the rest of the war engaged in a one man guerrilla campaign in Japanese occupied Burma living rough in the jungle, with no contact with the Allies for over three years. At one point F S-C describes calling muntjac in similar fashion. So there is a precedent.

It's a long time since I read that book; i'll
have to dig it up have a browse through it.

Speaking of munties and books, as a fan of Jim Corbett and Keneth Anderson, my mind always drifts off to far away places when I here munties barking. It's dusk and your in a highseat overlooking a clearing in a wood..the light is just starting to go and two or three bucks start barking from
somewhere behind you in the shaddows..to think 75 years ago the likes of Corbett were also sittings in "highseats" overlooking very different woods listening to the same thing whilst following the progress of a maneating tiger or leopard...I think I was born about 120 years to late!!!:-)

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There is no doubt in my mind that I'll be back. Just not sure when. I have this little Africa bug to deal with first! Next time around, I'll hopefully have a little more time to deal with the stalking end of things. Then we can go after some roes and munties. I think a red would be pretty neat too if I can afford all that

In regards to Corbett, I think of what an awesome experience it would have been to kick around learning the ways of the Indian jungles during his youth. Then to follow up with some stalks on man-eaters, as an adult, that makes my hair stand on end now just thinking about them .... Not a bad way to spend a life.

Deerdogs or Pete E,
Just out of curiosity do fawn in distress (or other) calls work at any point during the year on munties or roes? I have seen some video footage of whitetails that come blasting through the timber when someone blows a fawn in distress call. I've played around a little bit with this, but haven't had much success on my end. I guess, ultimately, the question is do you use calls during other times than the rut?

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With regards the calls and roe does, the fawn squeak will get a response pretty much all summer to a greater or lesser degree. i was talking to another British poster Herne who is far more expirienced than me, and he says you can get a response even later in some circumstances. The thing is the does are actually out of season during the summer and we only call them in during the rut in the hope a buck will follow them out as well.
If you remember where you parked your car, I have called 5 does in off that moor whilst sitting in the fence line. My mate and watch them come in from over half a mile!

With munties things are different. Calling is not a tradional way of stalking them (I guess as the Germans had no munties?)so the people who do it are really breaking fresh ground for themselves. As munty does are constantly pregnant and breed every 7 months, he they were to respond to a fawn squeak, it could happen any time of the year.
As I say I have heard of people trying this with mixed success. Culling munty does offers many ethical problems and if they do respond to the squeak, it will complecate matters further in many ways. We really need more studies to be carried out on Muntjac as we know so little about them.

Pete

I start in Mid July and finish mid September. Weather is normaly important - hot and muggy in the afternoon makes a big difference. Sometimes you get them charging in and sometimes ambling in to investigate. I have watched muntjac 'families' and pre rut behaviour and it is very vocal in the squeaking department.

Does present an ethical problem whether squeaking or not. The textbook advice of shooting when young and obviously immature or obviously pregnant (to avoid orphaning a dependant fawn) is all very well but to tell the truth it's hard to tell the sex half the time let alone age and position in the breeding cycle.

The typical scenario is hear/see muntjac, decide in an instant direction of travel, cross sticks, unsling rifle, aim on gap in trees/undergrowth, whistle as muntjac arrives in gap, adjust aim and shoot, the last 3 all being in 5 seconds or less. Any deviation from such a scenario absolutely hammers your success rate and in areas where you have the stalking purely on your ability to limit muntjac damage you will be out on your ear. Obviously does with very young fawns following are off limits to most people allthough these are very tasty (on the occasion they hove into view just after you've shot the doe, they're a bit like venison veal) and whose to say they have any more right to life than mum? Mr Reynard certainly killss a lot of muntjac fawns and whilst that is no justification it serves to show that nature is a complicated business for which anthropomorphism has few answers.

For me if it's a muntjac and it's not obviously got young or a very immature buck then it's shot and appreciated by me for the wonderful sport it gives and by the restaurants for the wonderful food it gives. I have orphaned fawns and no doubt Mr Reynard/Badger has appreciated the wonderful food they have given to him and his bretheren.

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