Eight or ten years ago I hunted elk in the Middle Fork of Salmon R. area in Idaho. It was supposed to have been one of the premier elk areas then and it is why I chose it. It was an eight day hunt(late season)and saw only one bull(six point)with eight cows, too late in the day to make a stalk, it being two ridges away from us. Spent the next week trying to catch up to it. After a couple days saw it again, once again too late in the day At the time there were reports in camp of wolf sightings in the area within the past few days. Since then I have heard of additional reports of wolves in that area and that they may have had a negative impact on the elk herd in the area. There used to be an outfitter in the Chamberlain Basin area (Chamberlain Basin Outfitters?) who no longer is in operation, to the best of my knowledge. Anyway, I am wondering if anyone out there knows anything about the wolf situation in the area and what, if any, impact they have had on the elk and deer hards there. Should one consider other areas for an elk hunt in Idaho?

I am not certain about the area you are talking about but I can tell you that the area in Idaho that I hunted (Clearwater area)the wolves had a definite impact on elk pop.The guide basically warned us that the elk had be thinned way down as a result of wolf predation.The number of hunters in the area was drastically reduced as well because of the lack of elk #'s Apparently there used to be a lot of camps and hunters in the area but we knew of only one other camp about 5 miles up stream from our camp
We had a good time though and I did manage to get a bull so its not totally undo able
best of luck to ya

Blackmail and bad science on wolves



Sunday, April 5, 2009 2:06 AM MDT

MARK COY
Perspective

Apparently, I can no longer remain silent about the wolf issue, either. I watched this train wreck from a front-row seat and have been sick ever since. I notice Dick Sadler's use of the word "professional" throughout his column ("How wolf decision was made," March 22) and a reference to Idaho's management plan, but did not see a definition or description of either. I can only assume that it means, "as compared to Dick."

I am a biologist and, more importantly, I resided in Wyoming from 1965 to 2008, observing its ecosystems through the eyes of ranchers and environmentalists during that time. The issue of the wolf has never been simple, so blaming the current situation solely on a course of action by the Wyoming Game & Fish Commission concerning a management plan reminds me of tunnel vision. Therefore, let's put this situation into perspective, because it's not just about wolves, but also about federal blackmail, and plain old bad science.

Let's go back to 1985 and the battle over the drinking age. Wyoming was the last state to "knuckle under" to federal demands that the drinking age be raised. Wyoming was set to lose its matching federal highway funding if it didn't raise the legal drinking age, so it did. This may have been in the "public's" best interest, but let's not mince words, it was blackmail. The United States government has resorted to these tactics throughout history, but that doesn't mean they are always right or that we should "just go along" with every edict they decide to pass. That is why there are checks, balances and an appellate system.

Flash forward to spring 1991, the wolf reintroduction study and getting the facts straight. Very few, if any, of the supporters were long-time Wyoming residents who might have understood the problems we're now facing. In addition, the Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) and any other federal representative that pushed this program assured Wyoming residents that wolves outside the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem would be shot. This was the only assurance that eased any of the opposition to reintroduction, which was most Wyoming residents. I firmly believe this was the only thing that allowed wolves to be reintroduced in the first place.

I sat in Population Ecology being instructed by the very man the FWS was using to do their population studies. The FWS was convinced they could hold the wolves in Yellowstone, while my instructor pointed out it was impossible. The FWS was "lying like a rug" to the public and Wyoming residents bought it "hook, line and sinker." Promises of: "you'll be able to shoot them off the park," "we'll (the FWS) keep them on the park," and "you (Wyoming) can manage them any way you see fit" sounded through every forum.

Now wolves are back and destabilizing many ecosystems, as any real professional would be able to tell you. Not to mention the fact of their depredation on livestock and human interactions. Don't take my word for it. Ask anyone in the Green River Valley what happened to deer and moose populations. Wolves on top of natural gas exploration equals dead antelope, deer, moose and elk. The Greater Yellowstone ecosystem is an isolated microcosm and anything outside its borders just can't be managed the same way. If you readers want more of an explanation about the science behind human disturbance and the effects of large predators, just watch what happens to those populations over the next 10 years in Wyoming as wolves expand their range.

Fact: Wyoming was blackmailed into reintroducing wolves. Fact: The FWS lied to everyone about the conditions of the introduction. Fact: The wolf reintroduction was based on bad science.

In conclusion, I don't think any educated biologist could sign off on a compromised management plan (like Idaho's) with a clear conscience. Either as a biologist, a Wyoming resident, or even a critically thinking human being. Therefore, Dick, I hope this helps you understand that the commission was acting in our best interests and not "just going along," because we are one of the rare states that still has some principles.

Mark Coy moved from Lander to Phoenix to pursue a law degree last June, after 43 years in Wyoming. He has a B.S. in fisheries and wildlife management from the University of Wyoming.

Time to take on FWS and their wolf repopulation programs? Unfortunately, too many hunters sitting back saying "it don't affect me".

quote:

Fact: Wyoming was blackmailed into reintroducing wolves. Fact: The FWS lied to everyone about the conditions of the introduction. Fact: The wolf reintroduction was based on bad science.

That is exactly why I stand behind the state and their continued stance of resistence and lawsuits. Every hunter I know personally, feels the same way. Our gun club and many of us write letters regularly to the state giving them support for a lawsuit. Duke it out in court!

I have lived in Idaho my entire life working as a logger in central Idaho.We had wolves before the re-intro,I have seen them many times in the McCall area, but I assume there gone now being replaced with the Canadian Wolves.

Wolves have made a "Huge" difference in Elk numbers and where they are as well as even Deer.I frequent Elk City often.One of my favorite places close to home to play and hunt..Not anymore and neither is the Gospel Hump or anyother public land in this area.

It is the same where you talk aout as i spent 40 years logging out of McCall/Yellowpine and all the backcoutry spots.....

I would not by an Idaho Elk tag out of state and I didn't buy one last year for myself.There are Elk if you know a rancher where they hide in numbers for the protection the Wolf Hating Ranchers provide....

Good luck to you this was just my opinion living in the middle of the mess.

Jayco

An area I used to hunt cow elk to fill the freezer is along the south fork of the boise river. F&G used to allocate from 300 to 600 cow tags in that unit. Three years ago I rode my mules up some of the tributaries that run into the main river system and found elk skeletons bunched together in most of the tributaries. The wolves caught them in deep snow where the elk didn't have chance. There are not any cow tags offered for that unit anymore and not very many bull tags either. The wolf was the most effective weapon the antihunters ever fired at us.