THE ACCURATERELOADING.COM AMERICAN BIG GAME HUNTING FORUMS

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People keep spouting off about banding together to fight the anti's then seem to go back into hiding. For Hunter's to all get on the same page we need to get some base issues hashed out.

What constitutes or actually defines hunting in your opinion?


Even the rocks don't last forever.



 
Posts: 31014 | Location: Olney, Texas | Registered: 27 March 2006Reply With Quote
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I copied this from Wikipedia as it sums up my understanding of Hunting.
Hunting is the practice of pursuing any living thing, usually wildlife, for food, recreation, or trade. In present-day use, the term refers to lawful hunting, as distinguished from poaching, which is the killing, trapping or capture of the hunted species contrary to applicable law. The species which are hunted are referred to as game, and are usually mammals and migratory or non-migratory gamebirds.
Hunting can also involve the elimination of vermin, as a means of pest control to prevent diseases caused by overpopulation. Hunting advocates state that hunting can be a necessary component[1] of modern wildlife management, for example to help maintain a population of healthy animals within an environment's ecological carrying capacity when natural checks such as predators are absent.[2] In the United States, wildlife managers are frequently part of hunting regulatory and licensing bodies, where they help to set rules on the number, manner and conditions in which game may be hunted.
 
Posts: 4372 | Location: NE Wisconsin | Registered: 31 March 2007Reply With Quote
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OLBIKER, the definition you posted would include a cattle rancher rounding up his cows for slaughter also.

What is hunting is hard to define in an absolute way but in my opinion if it's a domestic animal that is owned by a person then it's not hunting, it's ranching.
 
Posts: 74 | Registered: 22 January 2008Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by reelman1:
....in my opinion if it's a domestic animal that is owned by a person then it's not hunting, it's ranching.


Couldnt have sold me on that when my grandfather used to tell me to go find the bull that got out, I had to hunt high and low for that big bastard Big Grin

Crazy, maybe is would be a better arguement to define what "challenging" is or what "fair chase" is
 
Posts: 2094 | Location: Windsor, CO | Registered: 06 December 2005Reply With Quote
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hunting as defined by ravenr is
"the searching for any object"
not just wildlife.
example...
wife sayz "what are you doing"?
response "hunting for me @#$*&^ reading glasses"
 
Posts: 2141 | Location: enjoying my freedom in wyoming | Registered: 13 January 2006Reply With Quote
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Hey! Get back to taking care of clients. F--- your glasses.


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Posts: 13134 | Location: LAS VEGAS, NV USA | Registered: 04 August 2002Reply With Quote
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This is NY's legal definition:

"Hunting" means pursuing, shooting, killing or capturing (other than trapping) wildlife, and includes all lesser acts such as disturbing, harrying or worrying, whether they result in taking or not, and every attempt to take and every act of assistance to any other person in taking or attempting to take wildlife.

.


.

"Listen more than you speak, and you will hear more stupid things than you say."
 
Posts: 706 | Location: near Albany, NY | Registered: 06 December 2002Reply With Quote
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Good participation so far.

Drummond, your suggestion is the next step after figuring out what hunting means to individuals, not the definition of the word but the concept of what is or is not hunting.

Ravenr, Mark those same remarks are made around my house on a daily if not hourly basis.

Erict, Thanks for your input, it is nice to have the various states/provinces definition of what they consider legal methods and parameters.

Reelman, you make some interesting observations and I do not neccessarily disagree with some of them.

One thing I have found out over the years is that my attitudes and beliefs concerning what is or is not hunting, have changed/modified as conditions have changed.

The biggest factors that have worked to change my attitudes/concepts are my income level and my health.

Other factors that have to be taken into consideration are such things as where you do your hunting.

Hunting in Texas or east of the Mississippi River is not the same as hunting Public Land in the American Rockies, where D-I-Y hunts are still an option, while in the Canadian Rockies if you are not a Canadian Resident, you have to employ a guide.

Just as none of us are guaranteed how long we will live, none of us are guaranteed how long we will be young and full of piss and vinegar.

The body can fail, yet the mind and the desire are still active. If a person physically can not walk miles and miles and climb the mountains anymore should they be forced to give up hunting and just set in a rocking chair dreaming of the old days?

Are folks like that no longer considered hunters simply because their body has failed them and they have to set in a blind some where watching a game trail or a timed feeder.

Actually Reelman this statement right here is more along the lines of the truth than you know:
quote:
What is hunting is hard to define in an absolute way
, yet you actually did define what hunting or a facet of hunting means to YOU:
quote:
but in my opinion if it's a domestic animal that is owned by a person then it's not hunting, it's ranching.


Now the question to you is, what constitutes ownership of an animal?


Even the rocks don't last forever.



 
Posts: 31014 | Location: Olney, Texas | Registered: 27 March 2006Reply With Quote
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"Now the question to you is, what constitutes ownership of an animal?"

Generally in the USA the public ownes the animals, not the people who's land they are on. But if you have a fence that the animals can't get out of generally you have either bought the animals from the state or bought them from other breeders. Either way they now own the animals and can generally do with them what they want regardless of state regualtions.

Here in Wisconsin game farms such as this are actually regualted by the department of agriculture and not the DNR.
 
Posts: 74 | Registered: 22 January 2008Reply With Quote
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No arguement there, that is the way I look at it. But, what about low fenced places that run the same type hunts, but do not guarantee anything more than shot opportunities???

Is that hunting or ranching?

With that out of the way, what do you personally consider real hunting?


Even the rocks don't last forever.



 
Posts: 31014 | Location: Olney, Texas | Registered: 27 March 2006Reply With Quote
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I think that reelman1 has stumbled onto an interesting distinction here. Who is regulating your activity in your state. If its DNR or Fish and Game then it seems like its hunting. If its Dept of Ag then its ranching.

That being said Crazyhorseconsulting makes an even bigger point who are we to judge someone else's legal pursuits.

I can guarantee what is a dream hunt to me now ain't going to be the same thing in 40 years when I can barely get up into the truck. I hope at that point I can go down to some ranch and shoot a deer or hog or cow for that matter just so the smell of the dirt, and blood, and gun power can remind me of all the joys I have gotten to experience in my life of hunting.
 
Posts: 245 | Location: Minneapolis, MN | Registered: 07 August 2009Reply With Quote
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Thanks for your input MN Hunter. That is one of the points I am asking people to look at when responding to this question. Here in Texas shooting deer from a box blind while watching a timed feeder is an accepted Hunting practice. Many people however do not believe it is anything more than shooting. Conversely many people Hunt bear using a similar method, yert I have had some really heated arguements with fellow Texan's that feel killing a bear over a bait is NOT hunting! Pretty good double standard there?

What I am wanting to find out from everyone, is why there is a distinction between one way of doing the activity versus another, even though the end results are the same.

The anti's do not give a damn what any of us call it or why we feel one manner or method is superior or more acceptable than another,they want it ALL stopped.

The business of claiming that a certain method is not hunting while another is hunting is not going to change anyone's mind. No one is going to say, "Okay, your a real hunter because you walk in 40 miles and hunt at 13,000 feet and only kill old dying bulls that have finished the rut and are going to end up wolf meat, so we are going to continue to let you hunt" or "You only shoot privately owned animals in a fenced property that do not really benefit the general public in any way, so your okay", the anti's want it all stopped.

One thing I am pretty sure of however from my readings and studies on the subject, the latter statement above seems to be why there is still hunting in Europe/England and possibly some countries in Africa, because the animals are privately owned and not owned by the "state". Therefore they are of no interest to the public in general.


Even the rocks don't last forever.



 
Posts: 31014 | Location: Olney, Texas | Registered: 27 March 2006Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
Thanks for your input MN Hunter. That is one of the points I am asking people to look at when responding to this question. Here in Texas shooting deer from a box blind while watching a timed feeder is an accepted Hunting practice. Many people however do not believe it is anything more than shooting. Conversely many people Hunt bear using a similar method, yert I have had some really heated arguements with fellow Texan's that feel killing a bear over a bait is NOT hunting! Pretty good double standard there?


Good point but let's also include Africa and shooting a lion or leopard over bait from a blind.

I think there are traditional ways to hunt animals in different regions of the country. Spot and stalk out West because it's open county. Sitting on food crops in the Midwest. Flood plots or feeders in Texas brush/woods country....etc. I think hunting practices are very regionalized and when their is criticism, it often comes from someone from a different region.



 
Posts: 1941 | Location: Texas | Registered: 19 July 2009Reply With Quote
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I spend most of the year getting ready to go hunting in the fall. I go with my oldest son as he is really the only one I've hunted with for the last 25 years or so. I'm 73 and still in pretty good shape, love to hunt. To me it is my skills and knowledge versus the game that I'm hunting. I hunt with a rifle (various calibers),revolvers and muzzle loaders. My son does too and he hunts with a bow also. I have the utmost respect for anyone that goes hunting. I have hunted since 1962 for big game. For me and mine it is a way of life. We would never put a hunter down, let a person hunt as they see fit.
 
Posts: 551 | Location: Idaho | Registered: 27 July 2008Reply With Quote
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Crazy, I'm not sure what you mean by low fence operations but if the fence is low enough that the animal can get out then I would call that hunting. I assume that the low fence is to keep cattle in but we all know that a 4' barbed wire fence isn't going to stop a deer from coming and going. I don't know what you want me to do in difining what I consider "Real hunting" beyond what I said. If you choose to do it out of a blind over bait I would consider that hunting even though I would not enjoy doing it, but I would hunt out of the same blind if no bait was there. I would not say that the bait hunter wasn't hunting, just that it's not the way I prefer to hunt. The above I'm talking about deer hunting, for bear I would hunt over a bait pile. I'm not being hypocritical as I think both are perfectly fine ways of hunting but I just would not chose to hunt deer over bait - to each their own.

MN Hunter, I don't see anyone judging someone elses legal pursuits. We may not consider them hunting but that doesn't mean that we consider them unethical or anything.
 
Posts: 144 | Location: Wisconsin | Registered: 18 January 2002Reply With Quote
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reelman, I wasn't trying to imply that you or others on this thread have been judgmental but I think we both know that there is plenty of judging going on in the hunting community about how others shoot game.(inside fences etc.)

On a side note how did a hunter from WI come to dislike baiting for deer?
 
Posts: 245 | Location: Minneapolis, MN | Registered: 07 August 2009Reply With Quote
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MNHunter, Not everyone in Wisconsin is a deer baiter. THe reason I don't like it is because it makes it so easy for the deer to feed that they don't move as much as they used to. Instead of moving throughout the majority of the day they wait till after dark and trot over to the corn pile and fill up.

My hypocricy between deer and bear baiting I guess comes from how else does one kill a bear in northern WIsconsin without either baiting r running them with dogs? The odds of just wandering into one are so slim.
 
Posts: 144 | Location: Wisconsin | Registered: 18 January 2002Reply With Quote
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quote:
what you want me to do in difining what I consider "Real hunting" beyond what I said.


Real simple concept, don't read more into it than what is there. I noticed you mentioned in another post that you have no trouble hunting bear oveer a bait but do not believe in hunting deer over bait. So, to you one is an acceptable form of hunting while the other is not.

As for the comment about the fence some people believe that hunting inside any type of fence is not hunting but shooting.

Here in Texas we have no real choice due to a severe lack of Public Land. What I am getting at and would like to see people open up about is what each of us as individuals believe in our own minds is hunting and what is not hunting? It is really simple, because unless or until all of us that consider ourselves hunters and can set aside our individual differences as for as our individual concepts about hunting are concerned, we cannot hope to even slow down the efforts of the anti's, and in the end, regardless what our individual ideas are towards what is or is not hunting go, we are all going to lose, simply because the anti's make no such distinctions, they want it ALL stopped.


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Posts: 31014 | Location: Olney, Texas | Registered: 27 March 2006Reply With Quote
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quote:
I spend most of the year getting ready to go hunting in the fall. I go with my oldest son as he is really the only one I've hunted with for the last 25 years or so. I'm 73 and still in pretty good shape, love to hunt. To me it is my skills and knowledge versus the game that I'm hunting. I hunt with a rifle (various calibers),revolvers and muzzle loaders. My son does too and he hunts with a bow also. I have the utmost respect for anyone that goes hunting. I have hunted since 1962 for big game. For me and mine it is a way of life. We would never put a hunter down, let a person hunt as they see fit.


My hat is off to you Sir. So far that is the most honest and open opinion I have seen. No parameters, no this is okay that is wrong.

That describes pretty muchily my thoughts on the question, as long as it is legal and a reson enjoys it, if they want to call it hunting it is fine by me. It might not be anything I would ever want to try and I might openly state that to me that it is not just exactly what I would consider as hunting, but I will be damned if I would want to see a person lose the right to enjoy, simply because of some idealistic concept I might have in regards to hunting.


Even the rocks don't last forever.



 
Posts: 31014 | Location: Olney, Texas | Registered: 27 March 2006Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
quote:
I spend most of the year getting ready to go hunting in the fall. I go with my oldest son as he is really the only one I've hunted with for the last 25 years or so. I'm 73 and still in pretty good shape, love to hunt. To me it is my skills and knowledge versus the game that I'm hunting. I hunt with a rifle (various calibers),revolvers and muzzle loaders. My son does too and he hunts with a bow also. I have the utmost respect for anyone that goes hunting. I have hunted since 1962 for big game. For me and mine it is a way of life. We would never put a hunter down, let a person hunt as they see fit.


My hat is off to you Sir. So far that is the most honest and open opinion I have seen. No parameters, no this is okay that is wrong.

That describes pretty muchily my thoughts on the question, as long as it is legal and a reson enjoys it, if they want to call it hunting it is fine by me. It might not be anything I would ever want to try and I might openly state that to me that it is not just exactly what I would consider as hunting, but I will be damned if I would want to see a person lose the right to enjoy, simply because of some idealistic concept I might have in regards to hunting.
Thank you sir, I know exactly what you mean. Keep up the good work that you do.
 
Posts: 551 | Location: Idaho | Registered: 27 July 2008Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by reelman:
MNHunter, Not everyone in Wisconsin is a deer baiter. THe reason I don't like it is because it makes it so easy for the deer to feed that they don't move as much as they used to. Instead of moving throughout the majority of the day they wait till after dark and trot over to the corn pile and fill up.

My hypocricy between deer and bear baiting I guess comes from how else does one kill a bear in northern WIsconsin without either baiting r running them with dogs? The odds of just wandering into one are so slim.


I have a small parcel of land . About 15 acres is food plots.I draw and hold more Deer year round than I ever did by baiting.I see more Bucks than I ever did,yet this does not annoy people like someone sitting over 2 gallons of Corn.Does not make any sense to me.i really don`t care how anyone else Hunts as long as its legal.My Dad always said don`t judge others actions by what you think is right.He meant what I said (as long as its legal) Pogo was right(I have met the Enemy and he is us).We can`t get a 2 Week deer season here because (This takes place at a Spring Fish and Game hearing)"My Ol lady will not let me Hunt for 2 weeks.Ones enough for anybody)!!!! homer
 
Posts: 4372 | Location: NE Wisconsin | Registered: 31 March 2007Reply With Quote
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Crazy, I never said or intended to say that hunting deer over bait wasn't hunting, it's just not the type of hunting that I like to do. If you want to do it have at it and I will still call it hunting.

On another thread on here they are talking about shooting hogs out of a helecopter. I'm not sure if that's hutning or not but it sure sounds like a blast!
 
Posts: 74 | Registered: 22 January 2008Reply With Quote
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Your taking this way to literal and a little too personal.

The question is not directed at you personally, take a breath and read the posts/rsponses that have been made.

You don't want to hunt deer from a blind over a feeder, that is fine, but do you consider that method as a form of hunting or not. From your answer, it shows that you do consider it a form of hunting, just not a form that you are interested in, again, that is okay.

I have no desire to hunt anything from a helicopter, butr if someone else does that is their thing and if they want to call it hunting, that is okay.

But lets go back, you have stated, more than once, huning animals behind a high fence where the kill is guaranteed is in your opinion, not hunting but domestic animal management, and that no one should call it/refer to it as hunting.

Yet you have no problem shooting a bear over a bait and calling it hunting.

The problem, we as a group have to work thru, is that just because we do not view something as being what we as an individual would call hunting, that does not mean that everyone feels that way.

The anti's do not have that problem! Regardless of the methods if an animal is being killed in the name of sport, they intend to have that stopped.

hunters are going to have to approach this in much the same manner as the NRA does firearms ownership. The folks against firearm ownership are against all firearm ownership, not just certain types or groups of guns, but ALL guns.

The anti-hunting groups are not going after just gun hunters or archers or people hunting hand fed deer in a 10 acre paddock or people bac k packing 20 miles into a pristine wilderness and then packing their trophy out, they want it ALL stopped, no exceptions.

If you don't like or agreewith a metghod or type of hunting that is fine, it is your perogative. Claiming that it is not hunting and should not be considered as such only helps the anti's because all they have to do is point out such statements as being divisions among hunters as a group, and that is what we have to change.


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Posts: 31014 | Location: Olney, Texas | Registered: 27 March 2006Reply With Quote
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Crazy, BS! Shooting an animal behind a fence they can't get out of is not hunting, it's shooting - nothing more and nothing less. THe anti's will go after all hunting and killing of any animals but that doesn't mean that us hunters need to be the ones fighting for the ranchers. I believe that it is their right to let people kill their lifestock anyway thye see fit but I do not agree with using hunters rights is correct for deer ranchers.
 
Posts: 74 | Registered: 22 January 2008Reply With Quote
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I support all legal hunting. At the end of the day, you only have to justify your methods to yourself because that is who you cannot escape looking in the eyes in the mirror.

I have hunted high fence, low fence, never been a fence, backpacked in, horsepacked in, artificial light at night, etc. I never hold out for the SCI, B&C, P&Y record animal. I will shoot any decent representative of the species in that area. Having said all of that, some of the absolute least challenging hunts I have been on were in "low fence, never been a fence" areas. However, they were all enjoyable, just different.

I think before anyone falls on their sword they need to evaluate themselves. What experience do you have to say hunting method X is not hunting or fair chase? Internet? You cousin's best friend's sister's uncle that once heard from a guy? Is that the game we want to play? What about any type of baiting, legal or natural? What about the use of a motor vehicle? What about range finders? Optics? Equipment that allows one to kill at extreme ranges? Any type of artificial calls and game cameras? To the anti's, anything we do is not hunting or fair chase. Don't start cutting from our herd to allow the anti's to pick us off in small groups. If you do, you could find yourself all alone on your "morale high ground".

Be careful what standards you set...someone may hold you to them!
 
Posts: 887 | Location: Wichita Falls Texas or Colombia | Registered: 25 February 2011Reply With Quote
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Good Post SFRanger tu2 beer

reelman, you just don't get and evidently never will. Your idealism about the use of a word is the kind of attitude or mind set, that is going to keep hunters from ever uniting to present any real defense against those that want to take our right to hunt away from us.

The semantics of using a word seems to me to be a poor excuse for not wanting to see our sport survive for those coming along after us.

You stated that such opeations in your state were under the jurisdiction por the agriculture department, well that is trhe way things are done in YOUR state. Here in Texas where hunting behind high fences is a common and accepted practice, itr falls under the jurisdiction of Texas Parks and Wildlife Department, and ias considered a legal/legitimate form of hunting.

While B&C and P&Y do not/willnot recognise animals taken from such places, SCI will under one of their scoring categories.

Is it hunting in the purest sense of the word, it depends on whether the person is a purist/idealist/elitist or an open minded realist/pragmatist.

With one mind set, no it does not fall under the literal concept of that idea of what hunting is to people that think that way.

With the other, as SFRanger stated, as long as it is legal and the hunter themself can live with it, then it is hunting to them.

Reelman, you do make a point, because other folks do not feel the high fence deer hunt is hunting. You lose a point, because some folks feel that shooting a bear over a bait is not hunting.

Again, the point I am trying to get across with the question about defining hunting, is to get hunters to understand that divisiveness within our ranks weakens our cause and gives credence to the rantings of the anti's.

Can you, as an individual, set aside your strict interpretation about what you consider hunting and support the cause, or like others on this site, and keep a closed mind and only support the types or methods of hunting you feel are correct and true to their/your definition of hunting.

The point, and I am going to keep beating this dead horse till it is a greaasy spot, is that the anti's Do Not have the high ideals to say well that kind of hunting is acceptable and this kind is not, They Intend To See That ALL Hunting Of Any Kind Is Stopped, World Wide.

Hunters and Fishermen have a simple choice, support their sport in all of its legal/legitinmate forms, or stand back and watch those sports demise and do nothing to trry and prevent it.

It is like being pregnant or dead, there is no little bit of either one of those, it either is or isn't. Same with hunting/fishing a person either supports them or they don't.

No one is asking or suggesting that anyone jump up and book a hunt on a high fence/guaranteed kill property, all I am asking folks to do is either support hunting and fishing or let the sports be taken away from us, pretty simple situation.


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Posts: 31014 | Location: Olney, Texas | Registered: 27 March 2006Reply With Quote
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I sure was hoping to see a response from Finman and DTala. They are very strongly opinionated about "hunting"! stir


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Posts: 2973 | Location: South Texas | Registered: 15 January 2008Reply With Quote
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I would like to see everyones response because the issue concerns any of us that like to hunt no matter what form it is or how we go about it.

If it involves the killing of an animal, out side of normal agricultural practices for the public retail market, i.e., what are normally considered by the majority of the public and the professionals as dometic livetock.

It is considered hunting by someone or some group.

Hunters as a group can no longer afford to be elitists on this issue. They are going to lose the right to hunt, no matter their high minded ideals, thesame as the rest of us.


Even the rocks don't last forever.



 
Posts: 31014 | Location: Olney, Texas | Registered: 27 March 2006Reply With Quote
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horse horse horse

I see this discussion has died on the vine, so I guess my peronal assumption that Hunters???? as a group really do not care if hunting is outlawed.

I guess it is more important for folks to hold on to their differences as far as what is or is not hunting, than set them aside and unite against the anti forces that want to end all hunting regardless of the form or manner.


Even the rocks don't last forever.



 
Posts: 31014 | Location: Olney, Texas | Registered: 27 March 2006Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
horse horse horse

I see this discussion has died on the vine, so I guess my peronal assumption that Hunters???? as a group really do not care if hunting is outlawed.

I guess it is more important for folks to hold on to their differences as far as what is or is not hunting, than set them aside and unite against the anti forces that want to end all hunting regardless of the form or manner.


The fact of the matter is this, you will NEVER be able to convince some that hunting in an enclosure, regardless of size, is to be considered "hunting" and you will never convince others that they are doing anything wrong by hunting the same enclosures.

Anytime a hunt report pops up or a hunt is offered for sale with a "guarantee" and its in a high fence its going to be a shit show. The feelings run high on both ends of the spectrum on this issue and that will never change. I think its an issue where hunters will never see eye to eye.

I never should have responded on the guys hunt offering, he didnt try to claim it was something other than what it was. A year or two ago there was a PH that gave a hunt report for his clients that he took to a high fenced operation in Mexico and they killed 5 bucks with an average of over 220" IIRC and he tried to tell us that it wasnt a "cake walk". Thats when I have to call BS
 
Posts: 2094 | Location: Windsor, CO | Registered: 06 December 2005Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
horse horse horse

I see this discussion has died on the vine, so I guess my peronal assumption that Hunters???? as a group really do not care if hunting is outlawed.

I guess it is more important for folks to hold on to their differences as far as what is or is not hunting, than set them aside and unite against the anti forces that want to end all hunting regardless of the form or manner.


For many years I was involved with Wisconsin`s Conservation Congress as a Elected memberI was also a Member of The Wisconsin Wildlife Federation.My observations were that there was so much infighting between different groups such as Wi bear hunters,Wi.Bow Hunters assoc.Duck Hunters,Wi.Whitetail Unlimited.The problem was no one would sit down and talk.Everyone had their own agenda,Its a freaking miracle we got anything passed beneficial to Hunting or fishing.Then you have to deal with The DNR who`s main Agenda is license sales regardless of game counts.All this plus The Anti`s. FUBAR
(I have met the Enemy and he is us)
 
Posts: 4372 | Location: NE Wisconsin | Registered: 31 March 2007Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by drummondlindsey:
The fact of the matter is this, you will NEVER be able to convince some that hunting in an enclosure, regardless of size, is to be considered "hunting" and you will never convince others that they are doing anything wrong by hunting the same enclosures.

Anytime a hunt report pops up or a hunt is offered for sale with a "guarantee" and its in a high fence its going to be a shit show. The feelings run high on both ends of the spectrum on this issue and that will never change. I think its an issue where hunters will never see eye to eye.

I never should have responded on the guys hunt offering, he didnt try to claim it was something other than what it was. A year or two ago there was a PH that gave a hunt report for his clients that he took to a high fenced operation in Mexico and they killed 5 bucks with an average of over 220" IIRC and he tried to tell us that it wasnt a "cake walk". Thats when I have to call BS


As soon as all "hunting" degenerates to shooting animals in enclosures like this, I'm done.

 
Posts: 128 | Registered: 17 August 2011Reply With Quote
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Originally posted by rcamulia:
quote:
Originally posted by drummondlindsey:
The fact of the matter is this, you will NEVER be able to convince some that hunting in an enclosure, regardless of size, is to be considered "hunting" and you will never convince others that they are doing anything wrong by hunting the same enclosures.

Anytime a hunt report pops up or a hunt is offered for sale with a "guarantee" and its in a high fence its going to be a shit show. The feelings run high on both ends of the spectrum on this issue and that will never change. I think its an issue where hunters will never see eye to eye.

I never should have responded on the guys hunt offering, he didnt try to claim it was something other than what it was. A year or two ago there was a PH that gave a hunt report for his clients that he took to a high fenced operation in Mexico and they killed 5 bucks with an average of over 220" IIRC and he tried to tell us that it wasnt a "cake walk". Thats when I have to call BS


As soon as all "hunting" degenerates to shooting animals in enclosures like this, I'm done.



Must be a free range Cow on the outside of the fence!!!!! hilbily
 
Posts: 4372 | Location: NE Wisconsin | Registered: 31 March 2007Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by OLBIKER:
quote:
Originally posted by rcamulia:
quote:
Originally posted by drummondlindsey:
The fact of the matter is this, you will NEVER be able to convince some that hunting in an enclosure, regardless of size, is to be considered "hunting" and you will never convince others that they are doing anything wrong by hunting the same enclosures.

Anytime a hunt report pops up or a hunt is offered for sale with a "guarantee" and its in a high fence its going to be a shit show. The feelings run high on both ends of the spectrum on this issue and that will never change. I think its an issue where hunters will never see eye to eye.

I never should have responded on the guys hunt offering, he didnt try to claim it was something other than what it was. A year or two ago there was a PH that gave a hunt report for his clients that he took to a high fenced operation in Mexico and they killed 5 bucks with an average of over 220" IIRC and he tried to tell us that it wasnt a "cake walk". Thats when I have to call BS


As soon as all "hunting" degenerates to shooting animals in enclosures like this, I'm done.



Must be a free range Cow on the outside of the fence!!!!! hilbily




Same level of sport to take either! Roll Eyes
 
Posts: 128 | Registered: 17 August 2011Reply With Quote
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I don't think that shooting lifestock inside a fence should be illegal, I just don't think that hunters are the ones who should be fighting for it. I think that a rancher should be able to kill his lifestock any way he sees fit but that doesn't mean that hunters are the one's who should be defending a chicken farmer from the anti's because he is ringing the chickens necks. Isn't that the place for the farming and ranching advocates? Same for the deer behind a fence, let the ranchers fight that fight. Hunters already have enough fights on our hands.
 
Posts: 144 | Location: Wisconsin | Registered: 18 January 2002Reply With Quote
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WE"(hunters,trappers,fishermen,farmers and ranchers) ARE ALL FIGHTING THE SAME PEOPLE..


Thank God Almighty, someone finally opened their mind to the whole situation.

For all you purists, idealists, elitists, this does not have one damn thing to do with what WE as a group consider hunting, To Hell With What I, You or ANYOTHER HUNTER considers hunting!!!!! It has to do with what the ANTI's consider hunting.

Thy are NOT saying one form of hunting is acceptable and another not! They are not saying, "Oh we only want certain types of "Hunting"?????, stopped but other forms can continue"! They are plainly and flatly stating that they want ALL forms of hunting stopped.

Ol'Biker understands the problem, "Ty" Beaham understands the problem, SFRanger and Don444 all understand the problem, why doesn't anyone else?????

What the hell is more important to some of you folks, trying to present one form of hunting as more palatable or acceptable to yourselves, b damned what the anti's are doing, or save hunting in all its forms and then work on getting legislation passed to restrict certain forms of "hunting".

If we don't start trying to direct our energies toward fighting off the anti's as far as HUNTING in general is concerned, then let's all give up and wait for the end.


Even the rocks don't last forever.



 
Posts: 31014 | Location: Olney, Texas | Registered: 27 March 2006Reply With Quote
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I agree with you on all counts, Crazyhorse, for sure. I've hunted free range, fenced, bow hunt, muzzleload, shot gun, rifle... Been picked on one way or another by 'sportsmen' for all of it!

For me a 3000 acre fenced area would be a hell of a challenge. It's certainly a big enough area for game to reproduce naturally in. I've got severe osteoarthritis and am only in my late 40's. One reason I like stand hunting. Yet there are even people criticize stand hunting!

Being in the east, I am often the one 'fenced' in by property lines. Most people only own a few acres. That means I have to be VERY creative to entice game to want to be on my property if I want to hunt them. So, is it hunting if I plant food plots, cut timber, etc?

I'm also a part time farmer and have raised meat animals for myself. Toughest part for me is walking up and shooting them at slaughter time. That's because this is something they never expect.

I've never been in a fenced enclosure where any 'game' animal would remotely allow that.


~Ann





 
Posts: 19814 | Location: The LOST Nation | Registered: 27 March 2001Reply With Quote
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Many Thanks Ann for your input. Hunting or the individual/personal definition of hunting is all that matters.

If it is legal and the person doing it has no problems, no one else should either, especially ANYONE that claims to be a hunter.

The end equation is the same, the Anti hunting groups intend to get it all stopped.

Hunters in general remind me of the folks that actually believe that they will till be able to fish, simply because they practice total Catch and Release fishing. The anti's are not going to give them a Free Pass either.

This is not a case of being in anyone's face, hunter and fishermen have to eitheer be willing to set aside their elitist values concerning how both sports are practiced, or watch both sports die, it is that simple.

Several of them have gave lip service about it being a problem and that we need to unite only to disappear back into the woodwork.

I believe I asked this befor, How Many People Really Care whether hubnting/fishing survive or die?


Even the rocks don't last forever.



 
Posts: 31014 | Location: Olney, Texas | Registered: 27 March 2006Reply With Quote
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Rain, it's got to involve rain somewhere.
 
Posts: 11731 | Location: London, UK | Registered: 02 September 2007Reply With Quote
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I believe I asked this befor, How Many People Really Care whether hubnting/fishing survive or die?


I do as it's both my passion and how I make a living. I also care that ranching continue because I like to eat meat! Honestly I don't care whether deer ranching survives or not as the meat is, for the most part, not sold for food.

I'm so sick of hearing that we need to stick together regardless of whether we agree with it or not. I was watching a TV "hunting" show the other night and they were killing elk, on a game farm ironicly, with a spear. It was disgusting to watch as the elk were suffering far longerthan neccessary and it was obvious that the only reason they were doing it was to make a sensationel TV show. While this may be legal I will not stand behind it just because someone calls it hunting. Just because you have the right doesn't mean that it's the right thing to do.
 
Posts: 74 | Registered: 22 January 2008Reply With Quote
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