I am going black bear hunting this fall and was wondering what the minimum handgun cal would be for a back up in an unexpected close incounter would be? Any comments welcome.

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don't cuss farmers and ranchers with your mouth full

[This message has been edited by ElCaballero (edited 04-10-2002).]

I'll be in Maine this September on a hunt that I won on the net. I'll be bring my .41s' plane jane and wildcat. I'll have a 14 inch Contender in .41GNR#2 a 12 inch Contender in .411JDJ and a custom SBH in .41RemMag and .41GNR (it is a duel cylinder five shooter). ALL the .41s' will be loaded with a hard cast 250g GC or 265g GC from CPBT or BearTooth. I have NEVER HUNTED bears so I don't know what is minimum just letting you know what I'll have.

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Handgun Hunter
LOVE THOSE .41s'

I take it you are bow hunting?

If not then use the rifle you take for your backup- I don't see much reason for taking along a pistol for backup.

Or did I read this wrong and you are asking what to take for a second weapon in case the first goes TU?

Just my thoughts

"GET TO THE HILL"

Dog

I guess what I am asking is is what is the min handgun caliber that will take black bear at close range (50 yds or less).

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don't cuss farmers and ranchers with your mouth full

Whatever gun you choose, just make sure that you practice your "quick draw" skills. A properly motivated bear can move very quickly, so you may not have much of a chance to show the bear your gun.

I carried a custom 5 shot 45 LC a couple of years ago on a black bear hunt in Alaska.

When it comes to handguns, I think the larger calibers with good penetrating bullets are best, combined with a pistol that you shoot well.

Is a 38 special big enough?

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don't cuss farmers and ranchers with your mouth full

I think maybe 357 mag would be my choice for minimum with hardcast 158 gr. slugs. I personally carry a 41mag with hardcast "Keith style" 210gr. It is a Blackhawk with 4 5/8th barrel and I practice plenty. I've seen a Blackie movin out and they are nothing but a blur- way faster than the fastest dog.
There are those who carry the 44 mag but I found mine to be much too heavy to carry as a backup constantly and the only handgun that will be of help to you will be the one at your side when needed.
Have fun.
Frank

I dont think anything less than a 41 is even an option. I have seen bear that were well shot go a hell of a distance before expiring. Last hunt had to track a bear right at dark that had been poorly shot. Definitley no fun. I use a 300 WM with full loads. Even when hit in the boiler room and for all practical purposes dead on their feet they can go a couple hundred yards. If they decide you arre the source of their pain it can get interesting. A 38 isnt even an option on a small bear. Just piss him off at best. I suppose you could empty the whole thing down his throat though.

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Happiness is a warm gun

41 with hard cast gets my vote for the smallest.

I personally use a 3" M629 in a 44 with 250 Keith's.

Whatever you use be extremely good with it.If you find out you are not a pisolero then go to pepper spray or a shotgun!!

"GET TO THE HILL"

Dog

I agree. 41 or larger. The smaller calibers can work but I want to drop that bear, considering I do my part, without any worries.

You know there is that age ole story about taking a file to the front sight of your handgun before heading into the woods 'cuz a pissed off bear will shove it where that sight will cause a lot of pain.
I'm sure you are only looking at the handgun as a backup to another means of hunting but you may as well be using one that will be worth having.
And yes I think under circumstances of a charge or close quarter attack that emptying every cylinder would be a real option.

ELCABALLERO. HERE IS WHAT MY WIFE AND I USE WHEN WE ARE IN THE WOODS, AND HERE IS WHAT I RECOMMEND. A SMITH AND WESSON 4 INCH MODEL 29 OR THE STAINLESS 629. THE BEST HOLSTER, MEANING, HANDYIST AND MOST COMFORTABLE, I HAVE USED IS THE DESANTIS CROSS DRAW. THIS GUN IS POWERFUL ENOUGH WITH THE PROPER LOAD, WHICH MOST PEOPLE THINK IS A HEAVY CAST BULLET. IF YOU DO NOT RELOAD, THE GARRETT 310GR. HAMMERHEADS ARE WHAT I USE, THEY SHOOT REAL GOOD OUT TO 50 YARDS IN MY 4 INCH SMITH. NOT THAT THAT IS IMPORTANT FOR BEAR PROTECTION JUST NICE TO KNOW. IF YOU CANNOT FIND ANY OF RANDY GARRETTS AMMO HE HIMSELF TOLD ME THAT THE FEDERAL 300GR. CAST CORE WAS A REAL GOOD LOAD. THIS GUN IS LIGHT AND SMALL ENOUGH TO CARRY ALL THE TIME WITHOUT TOO MUCH OF A BURDEN. EVERY TIME I HAVE BEEN ON HUNTS WITH OTHERS THAT BRING LONG BBL. MAGNUM PISTOLS, AFTER THE FIRST OR SECOND DAY THEY LEAVE THEM IN THE TENT. PLUS THERE ARE MANY TYPES OF FACTORY LOADS TO CHOOSE FROM, INCLUDING LIGHT LOADS FOR INITIAL PRACTICE. YOU DO NOT ALWAYS HAVE TO SHOOT FULL POWER LOADS. THE SMITH 29 IS NOT AS RUGGED AS BIGGER SINGLE ACTIONS OR DOUBLE ACTIONS AND WOULD "SHOOT LOOSE" QUICKER. JUST SHOOT ENOUGH OF THE "BEAR BUSTERS" TO GET SIGHTED IN, AND COMFORTABLE WITH THEM, AND DO MOST OF YOUR PRACTICE WITH A LIGHTER LOAD. BE SURE AND GET SOME SPEER 44 MAG. SHOT SHELLS, THEY WORK GOOD ON GROUSE, SQUIRRELS, RABBITS, AND SNAKES. IN SNAKE SEASON HERE IN TEXAS WE CARRY THE FIRST TWO ROUNDS IN THE CYLINDER SHOT LOADS FOLLOWED BY WILD PIG BUSTERS. IN BEAR COUNTRY WE CARRY 6 BEAR BUSTERS, THERE IS USUALLY ENOUGH TIME TO CHANGE TO THE GROUSE LOAD. ALSO, IT IS NOT A BAD IDEA TO CARRY SOME PEPPER SPRAY. LOTS OF PAPER WORK WHEN YOU SHOOT A BEAR OUT OF SEASON, ESPECIALLY A GRIZZLY IN THE LOWER 48. WHEN EVER WE ARE TENT CAMPING IN BEAR OR MOUNTAIN LION COUNTRY WE SLEEP WEARING OUR SMITH 44'S. IF A BEAR GETS "ON YOU" IN YOUR SLEEP YOU WILL NEVER FIND YOUR GUN. THAT 44 WILL NOT DO YOU ANY GOOD UNLESS IT IS IN YOUR HAND. JUST LIKE THE AMERICAN EXPRESS CARD... DON'T GO NOWHERE WITHOUT IT.

Agree with the .41 and up group. Hardcast penetrators for sure.
best,
bhtr

I have heard it said that if you want to carry a handgun as a backup in bear territory, that one should carry the largest caliber one can handle, so that you can shoot yourself in the head while being mauled. You will certainly NOT be able to get the gun into action if you are charged at close range. There are cases on record of hunters, carrying loaded rifles "at the ready" being mauled by an unexpected attack eg. unwittingly getting between a mother and her cubs. They never even go off a shot. I think a lot of this is just "cowboy" stuff.
Peter.

And the real world odds of a hunter having a physical confrontation with a black bear are?

Jeff

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In the land of the blind, the man with one eye is king.

41 mag and up with the heaviest bullet for caliber you can find. I consider Black Bear more of a problem then brown/grizzly. Black bear like to come into your camp while your not around or while you are sleeping at night and play with anything that you may have left out. They are camp scroungers.

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AlleninAlaska

Given a choice I would forget the handgun stuff. A big black black bear in the fall will go 450lbs+. Here in Calif black bears are taken every year by the hangunners, usually with hounds. And every year you hear of dismal results, richochets off the skulls, multiple hits - slow kills. One fellow was mauled recently by a small 200lb black he shot out of the tree with his 44mag. The bear fell and layed there, when the hunter approached, the bear pounced on him, a wrestling match ensued in which the hunter shot himself in the thigh with his 44mag. Luckily his friends were there to rescue him on that one.

I personally have watched hunters shoot treed bears with 357s, 44 and 41 mags. Unless you break the neck or brain, a slow kill usually follows. The bear hangs on for awhile, a few more shots and the bear falls and bounces. I think the fall hurts the bear to some degree. Most experienced houndsmen use lever 30-30s, better shot placement and follow-up shots.

On the ground face to face I would rather have a rifle, preferably a 338 bore on up. I would prefer an action that delivered fast follow-up shots. Remember if you wound a big black bear this only winds up his adrenalin and nothing short of a brain shot will stop him if this happens.

If your only option is a handgun, I would choose a single action in 41mag on up, spitting at least 240gr hardcast bullets. The 357mag performs terrible on black bears, leave it home! Remember a handgun is only effective at close range, and if you are that close, you are just that- too close! Just my thoughts, sure-shot

I have found the 357 lacking on whitetails and Mule Deer.. The 41 and 44 would be my choice..I don't carry a pistol as a backup, if I carry a pistol it is because I am hunting with one, which I don't do anymore but have in the past.

If I can't kill it with a rifle, then I doubt the pistol will do me much good..

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

I believe Caballero was only looking for a backup in case of the unplanned confromtation and perhaps not a handgun hunting experience. I am wondering though about bears in more remote areas of the country. Are they more wild and therefore more skittish? Or, are they more like the park bears of CA. which are so accustomed to people that they don't run but actually act dominating and become aggressive associating people with food.

[This message has been edited by Frank Martinez (edited 04-12-2002).]

The .50 Desert Eagle.

44 rem mag. Magnum Research Desert Eagle, 6" barrel, 8-shot magazine. ITs heavy but it is reliable and fun to shoot. It will stop just about any bear, and especially any black bear, that comes near you.

A .44 Magnum, or a .454 Casull with heavy and almost solid bullets (hard-cast, or bullets designed to expand slow) should work if you have enough time to shoot.

Confrontations with black bears are very possible in some places, and some large bears have been killed in Alaska with handguns during a mauling. A bow hunter killed a brown bear with a .44 Magnum when the bear was chewing him a few years back. Another bow hunter dropped his bow when a brown charged, and miraculously grabbed the .338WM rifle from his shoulder and fired without aiming, then dropped to the ground in the fetal position awaiting for a mauling. But the bear never got to him, because the 250-grain NOS bullet had broken the bear's neck. He finally got up to look, and the bear was a few feet away dead.

If I was bow hunting, you bet I would pack my .454 Casull in a bandoleer holster.

When I lived in the 49th state I carried my .44 mag Mountain Gun loaded with 320 gr solid brass bullets. Never found out if it would stop a bear and never wanted to fire it for fun either.

I always carry my blackhawk 44 mag in bear country. It may do no good, but it makes me feel better. It for sure would do me no good if it were at home. It's always better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it!

During last year's spring bear hunt with my Montana hunting buddy/taxidermist,a bear was brought in to the shop by a hunter that put the bear down with a rifle and decided to finish it at point blank range with his 9mm pistol. 3 or 4 9mm slugs were found that barely penetrated the skin and went no further. I would use a .41 mag as a minimum, preferabley a .44 mag. I wouldn't bother with a handgun if hunting with a rifle...just extra weight.

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Phil- Life Member NRA & SCI

Ray has it right, bring a 44 magnum. Hopefully your rifle shooting will be good enough that you don't have to worry about using the pistol.

regards

RH

.44 Magnum if I know there�s trouble - driven boar hunt or looking after one. S & W 6" and it works great. JSP�s.

Most rational: Ruger GP 100, .357, 4" in Yaqui hoster by Sickinger. JSP�s.

Not rational, but I plain like her: Norinco 1911A1, customized, in Sickinger Yaqui. SWC bullets.

I hate to through water in the fire, but this all seems to sound a little hysterical to me. I worked in the woods as a timber cruiser for 15 years. I have lived in or near the woods all my life (51 yrs.). My father-in-law hunted bears with hounds for 30 or 40 yrs., and logged all his life until 5 years ago. And my friends, bro-in-law, etc, etc. work in the woods yet. The point is, none of us ever carried any kind of gun in the woods--and encounter bears with some frequency. They aren't sneaking around looking for someone to tear apart. Does it happen---yes. But rarely. Ussually some act of stupidity leads to such incidents, though not always. But I can assure you that you are in more danger in the city , than you are in the woods. Which is the the one place I do always carry a gun. The only time I really have ever felt it necessary to carry a handgun in the woods is when I work or hunt alone in seriously rugged country--this way if I break my leg or some such, I can signal for help if I need to. Finally, someone mentioned using shot cartridges in a handgun--Have you had better luck than I with patterns? My Bisely .44 mag is throwing a pattern (very marginal) @ 8 feet or less, and the shot size is so small, the charge so anemic, that I would feel pretty bad about, at best, wounding the bird (assuming you got penetration through the feathers.) I don't mean to rant, here but feel that the uninitiated should know. Regards, Chuck

Consider leaving your rifle at home and carrying a .44Mag or hot loaded .45 Colt with a good hard cast bullet. Either one will kill any Black Bear that ever walked.

My my what a response. I don't have a pistol and want one and was using this back-up thing as justification. After shooting one this weekend I think I'll get a 44 mag. Thanks so much for the suggestions.

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don't cuss farmers and ranchers with your mouth full

I always carry a handgun when hunting. I just feel better. bear attacks are rare but most (90+%) of bear attacks are on women while minstrating. truth. so unless your friend has come to town you are fairly safe from a black bear attack.cougar is a different duck and their habits are ever changing as the liberal tree huggers have lobbied for laws that have outlawed hunting with hounds. know they are running out of things to eat and natural habitat as they are territorial. they can't go home so they come to our house and get braver around humans till attacks are probable. a cross country skier was attacked recently up north some where. the handgun is for the treehuggers!