Anyone hunting with one of the Savage package guns that have been on the market the last few years?
Due to the price my brother bought one last year in .260 Rem. He is on a very limited budget and the price for getting a rifle, scope, sling and case was hard to beat.
I know guys who swear by savage rifles so I figured he could upgrade from the cheap Simmons scope when he could afford it.
The scope is clear but is only a 32 mm and the cross hairs are thick but not bad for the hunting he will do. The problem so far is nothing shoots well in the rifle.
I mean we are talking 4+ inch groups at 100 yards. I know you get what you pay for but I would expect at least 2 inch groups. I figure if anyone else has had one of these package guns they could share their experience.

Don,

We need more info.

1. Have you checked for the obvious (loose action screws, loose rings and base screws, contact between the barrel and stock, etc.)?
2. Have you adjusted the trigger down to a reasonable weight-of-pull?
3. Are you using factory ammunition or handloads?
4. Has more than one person shot the rifle and gotten the same results?
5. Have you uninstalled the scope and mounts, degreased the mounts, screws and screwholes, then re-installed the mounts and scope?
6. Are you resting the forearm on sandbags, or is the barrel or sling stud screw contacting the bag?
7. Are you letting the barrel cool somewhat between shots? How long are you waiting between shots and how long are your shot strings?

Describe the nature of the groups. Is there horizontal or vertical stringing? Do you have two distinct groups of bullet holes? Do consecutive shots shoot noticably apart from each other?

George

[ 07-01-2002, 00:44: Message edited by: GeorgeS ]

George to answer my question I don't think any info is needed. The question was is anyone useing the Savage package guns.

Now to help diagnose a posable problem I guess the questions you ask would be needed altough I was not looking for answers to possable problems but if the forum wants to Fine.

1. Yes I have checked the obvious.
2. As well as can be without taking to a gunsmith. (This could be one of the problems)
3. Both with same results.
4. Yes
5.Yes the scope is on solid.
6. Resting forearm not sling swivel or barrel.
7. Three shot groups about one min or so apart. Barrel is just warm to touch after third shot. Don't shoot next group till barrel is cool.

I guess I assumed people would not take for granted I was an idiot who did not know how to sight in a gun but then I am fairly new to the forum so you don't know me.

As for the nature of the holes there is no pattern at all. Mostly a triangle that would just not tighten up. I know I have to keep working on loads but after trying two factory loads and one hand load we are no where. I have never had three different loads do this poorly. I figure if others have experience with this rifle I can find out it's limitations.

Hey Don, relax. I was trying to help you diagnose a possible problem (even without you asking). In no way did I imply you were an idiot.

Since you only wanted an answer to your question, it's no.

George

Sorry George. I apreciate the help. Sometimes these threads go way off from the asked question though. My guess to the problem is the trigger or optics. I still have to put a pressure point under the barrel to see if that helps. That is a quick test. I know my Winchester in .300 win. mag had to be glass bedded to shoot good. My Frankonia in .308 shoots the same free floated or with a pressure point. I figure if others have this same rifle they can share their experiences with theirs. Personaly I would never own a Savage. I think they are ugly clubs and feel cheap. However I know guys who swear by them. At this point I wish I had talked my brother into saveing a few more months and not bought this one.

No. I have never shot a Savage package gun. It's against my religion to shoot ugly rifles.

Okay, Don.

The optics would be where I look first; install a scope with a good track record (like a Leupold or Burris) and try again.

I doubt Savage pays very much for those Simmons scopes, so I wouldn't expect much from them.

It sounds like the scope is DOA, there is a stock contact issue, or the crown is bolluxed. A bad trigger may give you larger groups, but they should be better than 4".

The barrel should be free-floating from the fore-end tip to the barrel nut; sometimes even a little contact can screw things up. A pressure point may settle the barrel down enough to make a big difference (that trick worked on an A-Bolt I had).

The crown is easy to inspect; if there are any nicks or damage where the rifling ends, the crown should be redone.

A friend of mine had an 11F .223 that was amazingly accurate for a sporter. My wife and I have Savage Varminters that shoot in the .3s. With performance like that, I'll put up with it's funky looks. It's like having a fat and/or ugly girlfriend that is great in bed; you enjoy her company, but you sure hope your friends don't see you with her

George

I have one of those but Im not using the simmons scope, I use a bushnell Trophy, its a 30-06. I just improved my groups considerably by switching from IMR 4895 to IMR 4350. Its getting better than 1/2" groups now and thats with no trigger job (yet!). Keep at it, when you find a good load it should get much better.

At the very least,dump the simmons and try a good scope like leupold. A trigger job will only help things also.

Jacobite--One of my friends has one of the 110's in 30-06 with a very wierd colored crapola beech stock that shoots an inch easily in spite of an atrocios triiger pull. I don't own a Savage, but have left the possibilty open, due to hearing of or seeing these guns shoot groups better than the other American manufacturers. Like everyone else, I have a pet theory to toss out--just in case, because I think this gun should shoot. Several years ago I bought Winchester 70 featherwieght in 308 that shot 6" groups right out of the box!! With no gunsmithing either! My hunting partner was with me, shooting 1 1/2"--2 1/2" with my ex Mossburg 308, which I had just sold him to buy the Winchester. Him seemed way too amused at my shotgun patterns, suggesting that I might try an extra full choke! The upshot was that I adjusted the trigger, and shrunk groups 1/2", tried numerous brands and bullet weights of factory ammo, and got the groups all the way down to 4 1/2". In frustration, I brought it back to the dealer, and he suggested that I play around with the action screws. I did, and found that a gorilla must have tightened them, and the rifle liked the front on barely past snug. And the group size shrunk to between 1/2"--2" with every brand of ammo. For me, it shot 12" offhand 100 yd groups, (not enough wieght forward for me) so I still sold it, but have remembered what it taught me--and ended up with another brand rifle cured as well. You may find it worth a try....Chuck

ChuckD,
When you say action screws I assume you are refering to the two bolts holding the barrel and action into the stock? If you already adjusted the trigger you must have been the gorrila that tightened them. Good point though if that is what you mean. My gunsmith always taught me to make sure those are real tight. I will loosen the front one up as you suggest. I have a scope I can try on the rifle as well and that change was already planned. I figure this gun as it is would pass for many hunters. I see so many that if they can hit a paper plate they are happy. We like to do better than that though. I will continue to work at it and report back.

Jacobite, I have one of those package guns in 7mag. Shot it last Friday for 4 groups. If you throw out the Cold Oiled bore shot, none of the groups went over 1.1", two went under .7".

First thing I would look at is to see if the tang binds. Put a hard plastic shim (tooth paste tube, etc) under the action at the lug and another in front of the rear action bolt. This should "lift" the whole action, and make it float, both at the barrel and the tang.

If the tang touches, some REALLY weird groups can show up. I lifted a 223 as described, and she went from 6" to .8" groups (5). HTH, Dutch.

Ugly or not they shoot. I have the money to buy what I want and I will tell you give me a Savage! I have never owned one out of the box that did not shoot 1" groups and you can adjust those triggers as well. I would start with the scope and try again. $ for $ it's the best rifle my .02$. If you want pretty look at the laminated stock with flutted barrel. Good luck!

I have a brother and a brother in law that shoot them. Both changed scopes, and the rifles are both real shooters. A nice trigger job is probably in order also. Loan him a decent scope and see if that makes a difference, it probably will.

Mike

Thanks guys. Dutch I will try the shim thing. Will also loan him a Redfield scope I have. His budget is so tight a Leupold is out of the question for awhile. The Redfield should help for now.

Jacobite,

I may not be figuring my patterns the same way as everyone else. Of two three shot patterns two holes were nearly touching, the biggest space between shots was about 1/2". The diameter of the largest pattern was just under an inch.

At the risk of losing what little credibility I may still have here, tell your brother if he gets it shooting and wants it to look better, I masked off the checkering on mine and sanded the rest of the Savage "we want the ugliest we can find" stain out of it. Restain and true oil and its a much better looking gun. Still has the funky big a$$ forearm but its almost .. Well, it looks much better anyway.

I've got one in .243 and it shoot's very well. I paid $300 for it about 8 years ago when I just got married and money was tight. The Simmons was replaced by a Burris 4x and it shoots just under an inch if I do my part.

No-the dealer was apparently the gorilla, as it was actually he who adjusted the trigger, although I had never thought about him as being the "gorilla"--well, he is no longer in business. Chuck

Chuck,
Sorry I thought you adjusted the trigger yourself. Wstrnhunt, As I build flintlocks I am sure I can reshape his stock to a more apealing shape. However I am thinking about getting a stock from Elk Ridge and restocking it for him if we get it to shoot well. I have been wanting to try my hand at modern gunstocking just don't have the time.