Moderators-please move about as needed or for best get the work out effect.

http://www.khou.com/news/national/100785409.html

Nationality of hunters not mentioned.

As far as I can tell, that link says nothing about any hunters being killed in Mexico.

Gato, sure it does. About half way down it finally makes a connection. It is just scattered writing. Typical of journalists today.

quote:

Police said the Oaxaca victims were apparently on a hunting trip in a rural part of Oaxaca near the Gulf coast when they were attacked. The state prosecutors' office said they were shot in the head and found Sunday. One was 15 years old.

I'm not the know all end all about hunting in Mexico but I'm not sure what you'd be hunting near Oaxaca (except trouble). I'm pretty sure its not a waterfowl hunting destination, no Sheep in the area and deer are not plentiful there either and the seasons aren't until much later anyways.
I'm also unclear if these hunters were locals or not, no reference made to them being visitors.

quote:

Originally posted by Snellstrom:
I'm not the know all end all about hunting in Mexico but I'm not sure what you'd be hunting near Oaxaca (except trouble). I'm pretty sure its not a waterfowl hunting destination, no Sheep in the area and deer are not plentiful there either and the seasons aren't until much later anyways.
I'm also unclear if these hunters were locals or not, no reference made to them being visitors.

Exactly!!

If you guys think it's too unsafe to hunt Mexico then stay home, it's as simple as that.

It's definitely changed and if you go you need to be very aware of your surroundings. I'm not going to spell it out for everybody but there are certain places to avoid and certain scenarios to stay away from. If you don't have any "self awareness" then it's definitely not a place you want to go to. The problem with that is that if you don't have any self awareness then your probably not aware of the fact that you should stay home, ironic isn't it

Readers digest version, go with a reputable outfitter. I would HIGHLY recommend flying and if you have to drive do it during daylight hours and don't stop anywhere between the border and your destination, piss in a cup if you have to. I would avoid traveling in a truck with AZ plates for obvious reasons and just be alert. It may sound like a lot of work to do but that's pretty much how I've done it for 15+ years

Drum

drum you still guiding down there? I'd love to hunt some of the trophies I've seen in Mexico but the fact is, I'm scared as hell to do it.

Doc - Don't be scared, just do as Drummond says. I too have hunted and guided in Sonora, but Drummond has done it a whole lot more. Go with a very reputable outfitter, Luis Romero is AWESOME, and well connected. Fly into Hermosillo, pay attention, and all will be fine.

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:
Doc - Don't be scared, just do as Drummond says. I too have hunted and guided in Sonora, but Drummond has done it a whole lot more. Go with a very reputable outfitter, Luis Romero is AWESOME, and well connected. Fly into Hermosillo, pay attention, and all will be fine.

I have a friend in Tucson, Ralph Anderson, who guides in Mexico. Bottom line is, from what I hear, everyone is usually ok but "you never know." I heard an outfitter once tell a story about how his hunters were getting ready to go into the field on day 2 and were approaced by Mexicans in what looked like a psuedo-military rig. They took the hunters equipment, guns, etc. and took off. Of course these things were taken at gunpoint.

I suppose going on a trip would be ok, but why risk such a thing?

not me brother. try to take my gun while hunting and someone is going to get killed.

I live in mexico, A lot of people who I know that have ranches, specially in the border towns, will not be going to them this year, sadly the situation has gotten really bad over the last few months..... I will be doing most if not all of my hunting in canada, nodak, sodak, and texas.....

You couldnt pay me enough to drive a lot of the highways in mexico right now, and I have a bodyguard and a bulletproof car, just not worth it right now...

quote:

Originally posted by Patricio Gaudiano:
I live in mexico, A lot of people who I know that have ranches, specially in the border towns, will not be going to them this year, sadly the situation has gotten really bad over the last few months..... I will be doing most if not all of my hunting in canada, nodak, sodak, and texas.....

You couldnt pay me enough to drive a lot of the highways in mexico right now, and I have a bodyguard and a bulletproof car, just not worth it right now...

Straight from the source.....thank you.

Those above who talk about "self-awareness".....I'm not so sure how that helps when a bunch of vehicles from different directions loaded with AR-toting thugs drive up and take your belongings at gunpoint. I'm not being a dick.....just curious.

And "cold, dead hands.....not me brother".....I appreciate that attitude but you'd die on a hunting trip.

quote:

Originally posted by Norton:

quote:

Originally posted by Patricio Gaudiano:
I live in mexico, A lot of people who I know that have ranches, specially in the border towns, will not be going to them this year, sadly the situation has gotten really bad over the last few months..... I will be doing most if not all of my hunting in canada, nodak, sodak, and texas.....

You couldnt pay me enough to drive a lot of the highways in mexico right now, and I have a bodyguard and a bulletproof car, just not worth it right now...

Straight from the source.....thank you.

Those above who talk about "self-awareness".....I'm not so sure how that helps when a bunch of vehicles from different directions loaded with AR-toting thugs drive up and take your belongings at gunpoint. I'm not being a dick.....just curious.

And "cold, dead hands.....not me brother".....I appreciate that attitude but you'd die on a hunting trip.

Patricio, thank you. Your post pretty much confirmed my fears. I used to live in Tucson and have heard of Americans going to Mexico to buy prescription drugs bc they were so cheap there. Some folks went straight to jail before getting back to America for possessing the medication. I went there twice with my wife and her mother. I didn't like one minute of it. Of course that wasn't a hunting trip either.

Norton, I agree on ztrech's post as well. I think if a truck full of drug dealers, military, whoever they were, drove up with guns pointing at you, they wouldn't hesitate to shoot first or shoot back. I love my rifles, but I'd give it up readily. I'm no cowboy and don't want to experience a shootout with a bolt action rifle up against an auto!

Regarding self-awareness, well, I wasn't sure how to take that really. I'm very well aware of "self." But some things are beyond my control, like getting robbed or shot! if self-awareness means, I'm to nervous to go, then that's the same as knowing my fears and limitations.

quote:

Originally posted by Norton:
Those above who talk about "self-awareness".....I'm not so sure how that helps when a bunch of vehicles from different directions loaded with AR-toting thugs drive up and take your belongings at gunpoint. I'm not being a dick.....just curious.

Well, if your hunting with me you would land at the airport, get your guns checked and once you leave the airport you would be on a dirt road within minutes. About 10 minutes into the trip you would go through the first of 3 locked gates. You would end up about 15 miles from the nearest paved road in the desert in some of the finest desert mule deer habitat in the world. Its pretty damn safe considering you are 175+ miles from the nearest border. I would much rather take my chances in that scenario than I would driving down Martin Luther King BLVD in any major US city. Again, its all about the situations you put yourself in. Go down there and screw around in the wrong areas with people that dont have a clue and bad shit could happen.

That being said, if somebody offered me a million dollars to run hunts for a month and be responsible for the lives of others on a ranch near the border I would tell them to pound sand. I would probably not hunt any farther north than the military checkpoint in Benjamin Hill, that would be my imaginary line in the sand

Its not rocket science, just have a little street smarts and go with established, reputable outfitters and you shouldnt have any worries.

Drummond

I'll pass.

In the nearby area on July 20 this happened - http://www.tomzap.com/index.html.

From this narrative on living in Mexico generally, http://www.tomzap.com/living.html, there's this interesting observation -"...Oaxaca is a non-operating state which is incapable of operating normal procedures expected bureaucratically."

And from 2006 there's this - http://www.tomzap.com/OCT2006oaxaca-01.html where protests led to the military being called in and an American journalist was shot and killed.

Sounds like an inviting place. And do you know what country many of those leaving Oaxaca are migrating to?

quote:

Originally posted by Patricio Gaudiano:
I live in mexico, A lot of people who I know that have ranches, specially in the border towns, will not be going to them this year, sadly the situation has gotten really bad over the last few months..... I will be doing most if not all of my hunting in canada, nodak, sodak, and texas.....

You couldnt pay me enough to drive a lot of the highways in mexico right now, and I have a bodyguard and a bulletproof car, just not worth it right now...

Hi Patricio,
My wife works at a boarding school in the Boston area and the number of students from Mexico is continuing to rise and their families tell stories just like yours. Be well.

That's kind of what I was thinking when i read the "locked gates" line above. Tactically speaking, you are backing yourself into an inescapable corner. And IF you go to Mexico right now, you had better be thinking tactically, because you ARE in a war zone. You may have no dog in the fight, but those at war don't care. As far as shooting back, you become a criminal in another country, where you probably aren't going to get a fair trial. I like the midwest, and I have plenty of Mexicans to hang out with in my home town.

quote:

Originally posted by drummondlindsey:
If you guys think it's too unsafe to hunt Mexico then stay home, it's as simple as that.

Guess you fellas missed that part. Dont go if you dont want to

quote:

Originally posted by drummondlindsey:That being said, if somebody offered me a million dollars to run hunts for a month and be responsible for the lives of others on a ranch near the border I would tell them to pound sand. I would probably not hunt any farther north than the military checkpoint in Benjamin Hill, that would be my imaginary line in the sand

To compare the level of violence along the border to that of the area where I hunt is comparing apples to oranges. I would not hunt near the border as I stated earlier

Drum

quote:

Originally posted by The Slug:

quote:

Originally posted by Patricio Gaudiano:
I live in mexico, A lot of people who I know that have ranches, specially in the border towns, will not be going to them this year, sadly the situation has gotten really bad over the last few months..... I will be doing most if not all of my hunting in canada, nodak, sodak, and texas.....

You couldnt pay me enough to drive a lot of the highways in mexico right now, and I have a bodyguard and a bulletproof car, just not worth it right now...

Hi Patricio,
My wife works at a boarding school in the Boston area and the number of students from Mexico is continuing to rise and their families tell stories just like yours. Be well.

Hey, what school does she work at, I went to eaglebrook academy in deerfield mass........ Yep lots and lots of people from mexico go to boarding schools up north, even though they are $$$$$ it was one of the best experiences of my life, I would have stayed too, but the whole family decided to move to san antonio, and that sounded fun too....

It's sad to me, such a good thing gone.

I used to fly my own plane into Mexico to hunt a couple of times a year.

I also used to buy Mexican steers and bring them to Texas to feed out and sell.

All that is history for me now.

Ain't worth the risk.(At least where I used to hunt)

So now,

it would be a commercial flight to Argentina for me.

We used to go South of the border several times a year just to stay a weekend, have a great lobster meal on the coast buy local artisan goods and save money on all kinds of useful things - like liqour. The people there are terrific particularly if you took the time and effort to learn to speak spanish. Several freinds would bird hunt and take large limits of pheasant, quail and dove in a morning.

I used to laugh at people who were afraid to cross the border. But it has been years since I would cross the border for any reason - and while it is an inconvenience for me - the local businesses that were thriving and supported many families can't be making it. It is disgusting that drugs can ruin an entire region of a country the way it has in Mexico.

It is so sad but also so true. Having lived in S. Texas and worked with ranchers on the border for many years, the changes are a stark contrast to what used to be. I recall years past when opening weekend of quail/deer seasons would bring hundreds of hunters across the border at Laredo/Nuevo Laredo but no more and for very good reason - it is very dangerous. All the shops are closed on both sides of the river, once thriving bars/restaurants have long since disappeared and even the area "behind the wall" is a ghost town. Large ranch owners no longer spend weeks at their haciendas across the river and many have or would like to liquidate such holdings. You do not want to be "across the river" when the top blows off and unfortunately it is indeed spilling over in to ranches and cites on this side. Only a month ago we had a shootout between drug dealerswith one killed on a railroad siding just down the road from the ranch hdqts. As one said above, you do not want to defend yourself with a deer rifle. Reminds me of the old saying of fella bringing a knife to a pistol fight!

quote:

Originally posted by Patricio Gaudiano:
I live in mexico, A lot of people who I know that have ranches, specially in the border towns, will not be going to them this year, sadly the situation has gotten really bad over the last few months..... I will be doing most if not all of my hunting in canada, nodak, sodak, and texas.....

You couldnt pay me enough to drive a lot of the highways in mexico right now, and I have a bodyguard and a bulletproof car, just not worth it right now...

What is your job that you need a bodyguard and bulletproof car?

Jarrod,

I do not know this gentleman.

Though, it may be his family name,

income or other factors than purely his job.

I have acquaintances in Mexico that have owned

armored vehicles and have had body guards for

over 30 years.

Mexico has had kidnapping of the prominent as a

significant risk for years.

It is just A LOT more dangerous these days and such protection is seen as a necessary routine.

quote:

Originally posted by drummondlindsey:

quote:

Originally posted by drummondlindsey:
If you guys think it's too unsafe to hunt Mexico then stay home, it's as simple as that.

Guess you fellas missed that part. Dont go if you dont want to


Drum

You're an outfitter and that's how you advertise?

quote:

Originally posted by Jarrod:

quote:

Originally posted by Patricio Gaudiano:
I live in mexico, A lot of people who I know that have ranches, specially in the border towns, will not be going to them this year, sadly the situation has gotten really bad over the last few months..... I will be doing most if not all of my hunting in canada, nodak, sodak, and texas.....

You couldnt pay me enough to drive a lot of the highways in mexico right now, and I have a bodyguard and a bulletproof car, just not worth it right now...

What is your job that you need a bodyguard and bulletproof car?

Its a lot more common than you would think..... has nothing to do with my job or family name in particular...
If you have any questions about mexico in general, or anyone else does, I would be happy to answer them via PM.....

quote:

Originally posted by Norton:

quote:

Originally posted by drummondlindsey:

quote:

Originally posted by drummondlindsey:
If you guys think it's too unsafe to hunt Mexico then stay home, it's as simple as that.

Guess you fellas missed that part. Dont go if you dont want to


Drum

You're an outfitter and that's how you advertise?

Yep, thats how I do it.

I'm not going to beg people to come down and if their mind is made up that Mexico is "too dangerous" then I would encourage them to stay at home. Hunting should be fun and if your that concerned about it then you would be better served to spend your money on a different hunt in another location where you dont have any peripheral distractions and you can focus on having a great time and great hunt.

Is there anything wrong with that Norton? I'm curious

Drummond

quote:

Originally posted by drummondlindsey:

quote:

Originally posted by Norton:

quote:

Originally posted by drummondlindsey:

quote:

Originally posted by drummondlindsey:
If you guys think it's too unsafe to hunt Mexico then stay home, it's as simple as that.

Guess you fellas missed that part. Dont go if you dont want to


Drum

You're an outfitter and that's how you advertise?

Yep, thats how I do it.

I'm not going to beg people to come down and if their mind is made up that Mexico is "too dangerous" then I would encourage them to stay at home. Hunting should be fun and if your that concerned about it then you would be better served to spend your money on a different hunt in another location where you dont have any peripheral distractions and you can focus on having a great time and great hunt.

Is there anything wrong with that Norton? I'm curious

Drummond

I guess not.....you certainly can't be accused of false advertising.....and that's to be applauded. I'd not be averse to rolling the dice if what you were offering couldn't be had anywhere else......and if I had no family.

quote:

Originally posted by Patricio Gaudiano:

quote:

Originally posted by The Slug:

quote:

Originally posted by Patricio Gaudiano:
I live in mexico, A lot of people who I know that have ranches, specially in the border towns, will not be going to them this year, sadly the situation has gotten really bad over the last few months..... I will be doing most if not all of my hunting in canada, nodak, sodak, and texas.....

You couldnt pay me enough to drive a lot of the highways in mexico right now, and I have a bodyguard and a bulletproof car, just not worth it right now...

Hi Patricio,
My wife works at a boarding school in the Boston area and the number of students from Mexico is continuing to rise and their families tell stories just like yours. Be well.

Hey, what school does she work at, I went to eaglebrook academy in deerfield mass........ Yep lots and lots of people from mexico go to boarding schools up north, even though they are $$$$$ it was one of the best experiences of my life, I would have stayed too, but the whole family decided to move to san antonio, and that sounded fun too....

My wife has run the boarding department at The Fessenden School for almost 20 years now. I'm sure you been there at least a few times for sports. Did you play soccer at Eaglebrook? I used to coach there and we've had lots of very strong players here from Mexico including Gerardo Torrado. What year did you finish at Eaglebrook?

I played Fessenden in football back when I was in Middle School. My college roommates uncle works for the school now. Great place!

I was only there for a year, I played football..... 7th grade......

pga