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Quote: THAT'S what I get for hanging around with cops, even Canadian ones. I hunt with 4 Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMPs) men. They are like the FBI of Canada. These guys can let their hair down but they are real gentlemen and sportsmen. They are also a lot of fun. They simply won't take shots they can't make, but they don't mind asking me to take one for them.  | ||
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Quote: I KEEP trying to get him to MOVE up to his cabin and set up a shop over in Oscoda at the air base. They would almost give him the space, and it would be a much shorter and easier drive. He has been the ONLY smith I have used for serious since 1969. Did he turn you onto Shepherds? | |||
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To answer your question, there certainly is a lession there. If you just hunt the same animals under the same conditions all of the time almost anyone will finally get on to the right equipment and techniques. However, if you hunt a variety of animals in varying terrain under varying conditions it is a different ball game and the hunter needs a very different skill set to be successful. One of the most basic skills is to be able to shoot and shoot well under a variety of circumstances. When I first hunted in our western states years ago I quickly realized that neither my rifle nor my shooting skills were up to the job. Occassionally I hear others proclaim that a shot beyond some specified range or condition is unethical, etc., etc. Unless the circumstances are truly extreme this is usually just a sign of inexperience. I'll bet your friends that were having to pass on those 300+ shots wished they had done some practice at longer range but I do commend their restraint. Not all hunters would have been. Good hunting! Oh, by the way, the same goes for the caliber of rifle used. Either own a battery of rifles so you can select just the rifle for every need or get one that can pretty much do it all. Several of the world traveling hunters I am friends with seem to do both. They own a great variety of weapons but generally hunt with only a few. One does 90% of his shooting with a .300 Win Mag. and the other seems to prefer a 375 H&H for most of his. Both rifles are often more than needed, but as one says, "Dead is dead." Its hard to argue with that logic. | |||
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Quote: DON'T tell me, YOU use "THE BRUCE" also?????????? You might have even seen me back when I was driving B&Ws for Frank Irons.... We are definitely going to have to get together to compare some notes. | |||
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Murf Considering that BBBruce is a general purpose asshole, he probably brings out the worst in every CO & LEO he meets. | |||
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We had the same trouble in Wisconsin for years the law said one could not party hut.But every one was doing we had the law changed to allow party hunt made a lot less violators out there. Now we can legally party hunt a paractice that goes back as far as man kind. | |||
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I JUST returned from a caribou hunt up on the Dam road at Nouchimi. For those not familiar, briefly put, the outfitters offer packages for caribou hunting, you have a road that cuts through the country and you use that to find the caribou. IF you hit it when they are really in, you have your pick of THOUSANDS OR as in this year, the main herds have passed and you are forced to look for the smaller groups in a very BIG place. There are 10 in our group. 7 are native Canadians who spend lots of time in the bush. My partner started running his own trap line when he was 12. These people know how to hunt. THe terrain in the area of KM395 is high hills, lots of valleys, only a couple of roads cross the area with a smattering of lakes. The caribou were avoiding road contact and you had to really go in and find them, in 3 foot snow and -10 weather all week. THe people who had snow machines could get back in and were doing well, basically riding into an area where a herd was located and then taking them at close range. Those without machines, like our group worked the ridge lines well off the road and tried to make contact. Shooting was through the trees. Of our 20 potential caribou for our group we scored 18. less then 5 were taken within 100yds. 7 were between 100- 200yds. 2 were at about 250, the rest were taken over 300yds. They were a mixture of some young bulls and cows, because they guys just don't shoot and practice for longer then 200. They passed on better animals because they didn't have the "equipment" or the skill level to go longer. In that country it has NOTHING to do with stalking. You don't stalk in 3-4 foot of snow You take the shots you can best set up by location pic and a lot of luck. Your take depends also on your shooting skills under those conditions. 2 of the guys didn't fill because they don't feel capable of hitting over 200yds, even though they "saw several nice ones at about 300 or so yds". Almost all of the guys I hunt with had to pass on better animals because they were "outside" of their comfort range for taking shots, yet when they described the range it was all under 400yd shooting. My partner and I did well because of the ability to hit well beyond 200yds. We limited on good mature bulls. The closest shot opportunity was approx. 325yds. The longest was at 425yds on a pair of hornless bulls that were huge as they came off of a steep hill face. I took both of them because it was outside of HIS comfort range to take them and we were on the last day of the hunt. Both dropped in their tracks from 210 Nosler partitions out of my Sako 995 in .340Wby. The Shepherd scops was invaluable for the situation. It took almost 2 hours to get ONE of them out to the road. THe simple point is, the better you shoot, the more opportunities for better animals will present themselves. Personally I would have rather had them standing broadside at 50 feet on a hill over the roadside so when they dropped they would slide into the side of the truck. I'm getting waaaaayyy too old to drag through THAT terrain even WITH our rope recovery system. | |||
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Quote:Hey LAWCOP, How BIG were the two Bulls, weight wise? How tall, long and wide? I've never been near them and have no reference. Is there a limit on them or can you just shoot all you want like our Southern Deer? That 340Wby sure is a fine cartridge. Last Shepherd scope I think I saw was on a Sniper rifle in Nam. I never used that rifle, but the guy that did was quite good with it. | |||
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The lesson, I guess, is proof of the old adage: hope for the best and expect the worst. I think your party is to be commended for their restraint in not being tempted into a "spray and pray" situation.  | |||
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Quote:Quote: THE BIG bulls are in the 400+ pound range on the hoof. Maybe 4 foot at the shoulder and about 5 foot long. THey are compact but heavy. Elk and moose are bigger. We gut them cut off the head and legs at the knee joint and that makes them almost manageable. They have massive bone structure and as big as they are you only get enough meat out of them as you would a really big white tail. YOu get 2 caribou per license but they are debating on raising it to 3. I have just about settled on the .340 being one of the most all around capable out there. Great legs and decent bullet weght. I didn't recover any of the bullets as they were shoot throughs. AS for the Shepherd scope, I have been using them for a long time now and there is simply no other ranging system that works as fast and as well. My partner has a Shepherd on his rifle as well, and we both ranged the 2 bulls at a little over 400yds. The range is already set for drop so it was simply a matter of "point and pull" My partner has his on a 3006 and just wasn't comfortable shooting at that range as he hasn't had the practice yet. (he just got the scope last spring). They simply work as they are supposed to. | |||
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Hey LAWCOP, Thank you. I did in fact learn a good bit there. I had no idea at all about their bones being that large. Definitely a good test for a Bullet. I've just forgotten if you mentioned your rifle. You said it was a 340Wby. Is it a Wby rifle? If so, what kind of groups are you getting at 200 and 300yds with it? I've had a couple in the past, but never really spent a lot of time with them. My current one is a "MADE in USA" 308Win Wby Ultra-Lightweight. Very nice rifle so far, but I've only had it a couple of years, so I'm not ready to pass judgement on it. It will do about 1.6" at 200yds and maybe 2.25" at 300yds. Not as accurate as some other 308Wins I've had, but fine for this weight. Oh yes, those are 2-shot groups, not the 3 or 5 some people like. Actually I prefer combined 1-shot groups on a single target for my shooting. Slow, but it tells me what I'm interested in. | |||
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Good Grief man.....a 340 Wby ????  For a Caribou !  You guys must be chaseing them rough and tuff semi-bullet proof boo ! A 270 or a 30-06 is more than enough gun for a caribou. I used to secretly laugh at the guys who go to the range to practice up with the 300's for those tuff caribou ! LOL.  Glad you filled your tags and had a good time. | |||
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Lawcop Just a FYI that I only found out about tonight, we have a gunsmith in common (he was telling me about your 'boo hunt). Add in both of us being users of Shepherd optics, and we might just have to do some (bull) shooting sometime. BTW, I spent the first 40 years of my life in Drayton Plains. | |||
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Reading your posts on winter hunting sure makes me homesick. I live in Kentucky but grew up in Minnesota. People here gasp when I talk about hunting (or skiing, snowmobiling or ice fishing) in temps well below zero. It isn't unbearable if one dresses for it and is aware of the danger of sweating and then hypothermia. I'm sure you were plenty warm fighting through three feet of snow! Were they using snowmobiles or the enclosed auto-like units with tracks on all four corners? Did you shoot off sticks or the guides shoulders? A fine way to go deaf! | |||
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Thinking about fighting through three feet of snow and then shooting unsupported would be a sight to see! If they were trying that then no wonder they chickened out! | |||
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Law Cop: What a great story! This was Hunting magazine quality. I mean that as a compliment not as a derogatory statement ( as in gun rag as opposed to gun mag). Caribou is the one other animal I wish I had the opportunity to hunt every year. Bears or Africa, dont' do much for me. Moose might, but I have seen many of them in BC and the Yukon and In Alaska when I have been there not in hunting season. Moose did not seem much of a challenge once you see one, and in the summer, seeing one or ten was not a big problem. I also miss hunting in Wisconsin and Minnesota's deer seasons. They are sure a lot more rewarding than these puney little Blacktails here in Oregon. The scenary is fantastic, but the deer suck in the western part of the state where most hunting is open. Elk hunting is the same way, beautiful areas to hunt, but it seems it is some dumbass that seems to see Elk and the guys who are good hard hunting guys get one every 5 yrs or so. I sure would have loved to been part of the party of 10, whether I had successful hunting or not. Very very nice story! cheers and happy holidays seafire | |||
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Lawcop, One of the questions I have for you as a fellow michigander is where do you get to practice shooting at those distances ? I think one of the reason so many are uncomfortable with shooting at 300 yards is they never get a chance to practice at the range with those distances. I personally have never been to a range with even a 200 yard lane. PS. If you need any help eating those steaks up just give me a call ! Caribou is the best venison I have ever had. | |||
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Quote: WE DIDN'T have a snowmobile, "this year". we will next. Didn't have snow shoes either. The heavy snow was in the low spots, the valleys. We walked the ridges about 2 feet until we got a good spot. it was a lot like white tail hunting this year. SThe caribou were onl on the high ground to cross over spots otherwise they walked the low spots and that is where the snow was DEEP. We haven't taken a snowmachine up before because with a little work we really never needed one before. This year was brutal. The amazing thing I have seen in that country over the years are the tremendous number of animals that get wasted. One of the bulls was over 1700feet off the road through valleys and over 2 ridges. While in the process of recovery we came across 5 other dead caribou a lot closer to the road. Some of them still had tracks of PEOPLE who had evidently shot them, went up and saw they weren't as big as they thought, I guess, and just left them for the wolves and other animals. Over the course of the week we probably found close to 30 animals that had been killed and not taken. As for shooting, I carry my Stoney Point crossticks with the legs adjustable from about 20" up to about 5' Gives a great rest when you can't find a natural one. our hunts don't have guides | |||
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Quote: .....What a dick..........DJ | |||
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Quote:Quote: Why is he a dick????? He didn't break the law. | |||
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In response to djpaintles: Quote: Dj, you have lost my respect and any credibility for such an immature and derogatory comment to a fellow AR member. Come on, play nice here  Obviously, I will let your comment roll off my back.As SHOOTIST mentioned, I am not the one who broke the law, LAWCOP did. Further, I posted accurate information that may be useful to other forum members should they wish to hunt in Quebec. While I may have been direct, given the circumstances and disregard to our wildlife laws, I was accurate and fact-based and see no reason why you resort to name-calling. I guess that you are also not a true sportsman. Cheers, CL | |||
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Thats a good idea. I'm familiar with that area. I pass through about three weekends a month as my camp is in Cheboygen. I've thought about that before because the area also offers the chance to practice uphill and downhill shooting. | |||
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CanadianLefty, Excuse my comment, perhaps I should have said Nit-Picking Asshole. The hunters harvested game that they had legal tags for. Maybe if they had wounded them first and had Lawcop finish off wounded animals it would more impress your Laws to the Letter. Mentioning the Poaching hotlines etc. shows that you are nothing but a Haughtly, smug, Nit-Picking Asshole I hope most Canadians aren't as much a Sniveling Wretch as you are........DJ | |||
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Quote: CanadianLefty, I might also add ignorant. If you had taken the time to read more than 1 post you would have seen that LAWCOP had proper licenses for BOTH Caribou that he shot. So the hell what if he gives the meat from one of them to his friend......DJ | |||
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Perhaps he should put his efforts to work and spend a bit more time worrying about those Caribou that were shot and left to rot. After Canadians changed their gun laws a LOT of people here just stopped going to Canada to hunt. He might consider being a bit more appreciative of guys like Law Cop who still go there and support their economy. We should probably not refer to this gentleman as a Canadian though.....After all he is from Quebeq ! He might also consider giveing the RCMP guys and Law Cop just a little slack. Theese guys put their azz on the line to help us every day. Maybe they made a slight error but it certainly wasn't poaching as they had tags and their was no ill intent. On the other hand we should probably give Mr. 1-800-poacher-alert a break for being wound so tight. After all, he never speeds, never rolls a stop, never changes lanes without a proper turn indicator and most certainly NEVER EVER cheats on his taxes ! | |||
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WHAT I Have found "interesting" regarding the "locals" which are easy to spot because they speak French and they have Quebec license plates is their penchant for riding their snowmobiles into herds of caribou out on the ice and shooting them from the moving sleds as the caribou are running for the woods. The guy on the back of the sled does the shooting. I saw this the very first time I went up there and I have seen it happen every year since. The one thing that was consistent was that the QPP who were there were really pissing off a lot of people who were minding their own business when they had "out of Quebec" plates on their vehicles. It was quite a topic of conversation at the different gas stops and gathering points. I heard an awful lot of people intent on writing or calling the ministry regardng their behavior. | |||
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That seems to be a bit of the "norm" in parts of Canada now. A quick internet search will show a number of complaints and problems by the OPP against gun owners, hunters etc. Going into Ontario with guns is the main reason I don't go back there. I used to go to Quebeq in the Gaspe Salmon fishing and bird hunting. The guides would tell us the very same thing about local "hunters" on snow machines and the QPP. I know its a more affordable hunt to go to Quebeq but after hearing a number of reliable stories about Quebeq its one of the reasons I choose to hunt boo in Alaska. I have heard better things about other provinces such as BC and the NWT. What can you expect from a province that wants to be segregated from its motherland. Maybe Kalifornia and Quebeq should form an alliance ! | |||
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