It has been snowing for more than a week, and is forecast to continue for another week. As I type, temperature is minus seven degrees Fahrenheit, low is forecast to be minus 26. I am a die-hard lever rifle deer/elk hunter. Hunting in these conditions with lever rifles - Rossi/Puma 92 in 45 Colt or Marlin 1895 in 45-70 - is supposed to have problems when compared with bolt rifles.

- Where are lever rifles' weaknesses or problem areas for such weather?

- What can be done to mitigate or, at least, reduce the likelihood of such problems occurring?

I have froze all kinds of rifle actions up in those conditions. The trick is to have them properly cleaned and oiled.

I try to keep them cold not bringing them inside.

If you do bring them into a warm place make sure they are completely dry when you take them back out.

I don't think lever guns are any more prone to freezing then others.

I had frozen No.1 cost me a deer on and off rain then a sudden drop in temp. caused that.

P Dog covers the basics.

I would add that you should clean the action with brake cleaner or lighter fluid, and only oil the outside for rust protection. Oil on the internals can gum them up in the cold. Don't use any grease at all. The action is hardened steel and it really doesn't need any lubrication to work properly.


Any and all actions will freeze up if you don't keep them dry. I've had a couple of Remington triggers freeze up when I really didn't want them to.

Jeremy

Don't forget to put a strip of electrical tape over the muzzle to keep out rain, snow, and mud. I like to place one strip over the muzzle and then wrap another around the barrel at the muzzle to hold it in place. You don't need to take it off to shoot. You shoot right through it. I don't recommend doing this on a shotgun but it's harmless on a rifle.

It's true that any rifle can freeze and get stuck but a lever action rifle is more susceptible than a bolt action. The reason, oddly enough, is leverage. You can put a lot of force on a sticking bolt and you're only trying to move one part.

The mechanical advantage isn't in your favor with a lever action. A lot of parts have to move with just the flick of a wrist and it doesn't take as much for these parts to seize up due to ice or gummy oil.

The greatest advantage of a bolt action in this situation is the ease of access to the internals. I would suggest removal of all grease and oils and using dust graphite inside wherever possible. At least temporarily while hunting in sub zero temps. Otherwise, as an emergency fall back you could keep a small quantity of alcohol (lock de-icer) on hand if it does lock up.

quote:

Originally posted by Wstrnhuntr:
The greatest advantage of a bolt action in this situation is the ease of access to the internals. I would suggest removal of all grease and oils and using dust graphite inside wherever possible. At least temporarily while hunting in sub zero temps. Otherwise, as an emergency fall back you could keep a small quantity of alcohol (lock de-icer) on hand if it does lock up.

Have you ever field stripped a Marlin? 1 screw, the one holding the lever pivot point, removed and I can disassemble the entire gun in less than 3 minutes. The only other thing needed for total disassembly would be a paperclip for the roll pins in the bolt to remove the firing pin.
I do agree to use graphite instead of oil. I have a stainless XLR, laminate stock, in 308 Marlin Express for my rain and snow gun. Has been working fine for about 20 years now.

I have never had a problem with a Marlin lever action.The bolt is pretty much enclosed in the receiver.As others have stated,I do not bring my rifle inside until the end of the season,otherwise you get condensation in the action and a chance of a freeze up.I do run them dry,no oil in below freezing weather.For thick heavy cover and fast second shots from the shoulder,it is hard to beat a lever action rifle.The only exception might be a pump rifle.Semi auto`s(exception Ruger 44 Mag)are usually to big,clumsy, and heavy for woods
hunting.JMHO,OB

I've never heard anyone (other than on an Internet forum) say a lever action gun is more susceptible to freezing than a bolt action. I've never seen one freeze and have been using them for many years.

I have seen a couple bolt actions freeze but this was caused by too much crud in the gun or taking a gun out that was still wet from the day before. I don't think either action type is more susceptible to freezing up. Lever guns don't have many openings to let in moisture. A little tape over the muzzle and your good to go.

Freezing ? Prevent condensation That will freeze ! Use lubes sparingly and only good quality ones. Cheap lubes will precipitate paraffin and jamb things.

quote:

I've never heard anyone (other than on an Internet forum) say a lever action gun is more susceptible to freezing than a bolt action. I've never seen one freeze and have been using them for many years.

I didn't say that a lever action rifle was more suscptible to freezing than a bolt action rifle. Given the right conditions, any rifle can seize up tight.

What I said (or at least meant to say) is that the mechanism of a lever action doesn't offer the same sort of mechanical advantage as a bolt action. It doesn't take as much dirt, mud, ice or bad lubrication to get the mechanism stuck enough to make it difficult to cycle the action compared to a bolt action. This was proven in Army trials when Winchester submitted models 1894 and 1895 for testing as a service arm.

I've dealt with a stuck lever action and a stuck bolt action. Both were situations were sleet that got into the action and froze. The lever action was a Marlin and the bolt was a Sako.

There was no way I could get the Marlin to cycle until I brought it inside and completely thawed it out. The Sako opened up with a hard yank on the bolt handle. Forcing the action on the Marlin in the same manner may have damaged something, at least broken a screw. (To be fair, I've heard of the people ripping the brazed-on bolt handle right off of a Remington 700.)

I've also worked on a neglected Winchester 94. The rifle was given a generous coating of oil and then left in a closet for a decade or more. The action was absolutely stuck and could only be opened after a good soaking in kerosene. If it were a bolt action in the same condition a few hard tugs would have opened it right up.

It's not really an issue for someone who takes proper care of the rifle. Keep it dry and don't overdo the oil and any rifle will operate smoothly in bad weather.

30-30s killed a lot of deer in miserable weather in the Adirondacks. Still do

quote:

Originally posted by chuck375:
30-30s killed a lot of deer in miserable weather in the Adirondacks. Still do

quote:

Originally posted by Cougarz:
I've never heard anyone (other than on an Internet forum) say a lever action gun is more susceptible to freezing than a bolt action. I've never seen one freeze and have been using them for many years.

Its a matter of physics. More moving parts = higher risk of failure. That is a fact! Same goes for full auto rifles and so on. And that is also why bolt actions have an excellent reputation for reliability. But that being said, I have never had ANY action "freeze" up on me either.

A Savage 24 can freeze up, too...

Well ANY gun regardless of action type can and will freeze if not handled properly i.e. taken outside while still wet. Lever actions are pretty enclosed compared with a bolt action so water/snow generally a has tougher time getting inside.

More moving parts? Most levers have only a couple more parts than a bolt action. On any gun it's the firing pin that usually freezes anyway. I have picture of a friends rifle I used this spring in northern Alberta. It rode everyday on his atv while guiding hunters. It was covered in mud and was wet all the time. I used it to take a nice black bear. Needless to say it functioned perfectly.

Given all the lever actions used in North America for more than a century and a half in pretty extreme conditions if this was really a problem I'm sure it would have been mentioned long before. Heck I've packed one around all my life without problems and like I said earlier the internet is the first place I at least have ever heard of this.

Bottom line is; take care of your equipment and it will take care of you.

Add a few drops of diesel to a bit of oil. That why Russia's guns worked when Germany's guns froze up during the war. Look it up, it worked.

No doubt about it, lever action rifles are beautiful, iconic pieces of American history and they have served well in the hands of generations of hunters.

But why haven't lever action rifles been widely adopted by the military? The 1860 Henry saw some service during the Civil way but they were privately purchased, not government issued arms. Winchester and Savage pushed hard to have their respective leverguns become the standard military arms at the beginning of the smokeless powder era but the Krag and, later, the Springfield won out. Why did Uncle Sam chose to pay royalty fees to Mauser for their patents in order to build the 1903 Springfield rather than going with the homegrown Winchester or Savage design?

Imperial Russia purchased quite a few 1895 Winchesters but dropped them in favor of the clunky Mosin-Nagant. Whey would they do that?

Could it be that the lever action doesn't work as well the when the conditions are really tough? An American deer hunter might not expose his rifle to battlefield conditions but it's good to know that the bolt action has proven itself under the worst of conditions.

Leverguns are anything but simple. The Marlin is a pretty straightforward design but the Winchester and Savage 99 are Rube Goldberg contraptions compared to the elegant simplicity of a typical bolt action. Work the lever on a '94 and all of the internal levers, links and pivot points that make up the action are out in the open. Shake a post-1964 Winchester 94 while the lever is down and it rattles like a bucket of bolts.

It might be acceptable put a loaded rifle into a scabbard on a horse but only an idiot would bring a loaded rifle into a vehicle or building. To be safe and legal, a rifle might have to be loaded and unloaded several times a day during a hunt. With a lever action that means cycling each round (into full battery position) through the chamber. (Excludes the '95 Winchester and some '99 Savages.) And then there's the issue of using only blunt nosed or plastic tipped bullets in the tubular magazine.

I don't want to start a pissing match with anybody. Just trying to have a friendly discussion with fellow enthusiasts. A levergun is an inexpensive and serviceable arm that works pretty well most of the time.