My daughter will be 9 in a few days and she has been shooting a pink laminated Crickett for a few years. Now she wants to start hunting. I blame her shooting buddy for this (not that I'm too upset). Snellstrom's boy got to hunt pigs and sheep this year down in TX, and she watched the videos. Now she is a little jealous and competitive and feels the need to catch up.

She got to shoot her buddies H&R youth rifle in .223 but seems to be sensitive to it. She says it kicks but to me it appears to be the report from the short barrel that is causing her shooting problems (she was wearing muffs). I figure that can be easily fixed with some reduced loads and work her up.

I want a rifle that is light weight that she can handle off hand for a few rounds before getting tired. I don't currently have a rifle that fits the bill. So I'm trying to come up with some options.

Here is what I've been thinking:

1. H&R youth Ultra light .223 Rem 5.3 lbs unscoped.

2. T/C Contender Carbine .223 Rem 5.25 lbs unscoped.

3. Shorten the stock on my Stevens 200 .223 Rem and order a lwt barrel 20" for it.

4. Restock my M788 in .30-30 to fit her and shoot reduced loads in it.

I'm really not interested in pushing her into a larger chambering yet. She is a little intimadated by case size, and I've compared a bunch of different ones to prove to her the .223 and .30-30 aren't all that big. I'll wait until she can legally hunt big game in Colorado before I step her up to a .243 of her own.


While she wants a laminated stock and blued steel she has agreed to a synthetic stock that she could paint. The H&R would be the cheapest option as I could send mine in to be re-barreled and pick up a youth stock and a new one isn't terribly expensive. While it will not be long until she can fit a full sized rifle (4'11" now) I think weight will still be an issue for some time with her.

How about a Weatherby Vanguard Youth? The stock can grow with her.

LWD

Sir,
I have had no luck with the high velocity rounds being used as Youth rifles. The "Kick" of the 223 is perceived indeed but it comes from the rapid snap of what recoil exists I think combined with the crack of the sound. I have had much better luck with slowing the actual velocity of the round down. I used a 260 with loads down around 2000 fps for my then 9 year old. If you have any experience with cast loads, they are a great option too as you can use load data from published sources and they are slow and quiet.
Best regards!

quote:

Originally posted by Fury01:
Sir,
I have had no luck with the high velocity rounds being used as Youth rifles.

I used a 260 with loads down around 2000 fps for my then 9 year old.

If you have any experience with cast loads, they are a great option too as you can use load data from published sources and they are slow and quiet.

I had planned on downloading what ever rifle she gets. Slowly working her up to full loads as her confidence increases with the rifle. I've go a ton of H4895 sitting around so it shouldn't be be hard to slow things down. I do some cast load as well mainly .30-30 and .30-40. I think a full case of Trail Boss would work for the .30-30 quite nicely to get her started.

Remington makes a model 700 SPS in a 243 and a 7-08 with a 1" shorter stock.
Savage makes a youth/ladies rifle in 223. 243 7-08 and 308 plus they also market the Axis-Youth in a 243 and a 7-08. Just some other options.

for pigs and deer?
what about a 22 hornet?

I like the Contender idea alot because you can get a .223 barrel thats a little bit longer even with a short stock. Most "youth" guns have short barrels with a short stock moving the muzzle blast closer to the shooter.

One thing you could do is use heavier bullets (60gr NP) in the .223 slowed down just a bit. It works if used with considerations quite well. When these seem comfortable to her speed them up just a smidge. You could then go to a 7mm TCU and she'd be in good shape for a bit farther out.

The next easy step would be a .250 Savage barrel. You could load mild with 85gr ballistic tips or similar and she'll be dropping game like nobody's business. Or even a fast twist in .22-250 then load down starting out, and crank them up as she gets used to it. Nate

My daughter shoots a full size Vanguard in 223. I handload 50 grn Nolser ballistic tips on the slow side for her, and they barely kick. I think it kicks a little less, because the gun is on the heavy side. That’s one suggestion I have for you, if you want to keep the kick down. Light rifles kick twice as hard. I also found the break open style guns, kick a little harder too.

For the noise, I started doubling up on the hearing protection with her. The disposable foams in the ears with the earmuffs on top helped a lot!

I have a 243 for my little-one. Its a ol Alpha arms with a really light barrel that has been magna-ported. John Valicheck cut down then made spacers for it so she could grow into it. I "figgered" if I have anymore kids that they could use it too.

quote:

Originally posted by ravenr:
for pigs and deer?
what about a 22 hornet?

Pigs and exotics mainly, possibly deer as I have a buddy who has a place in OK she can shoot some does. She already shoots my .22 WMR so the Hornet wouldn't be much of a step up.

quote:

Originally posted by BigNate:
I like the Contender idea alot because you can get a .223 barrel thats a little bit longer even with a short stock. Most "youth" guns have short barrels with a short stock moving the muzzle blast closer to the shooter.

The next easy step would be a .250 Savage barrel. You could load mild with 85gr ballistic tips or similar and she'll be dropping game like nobody's business. Or even a fast twist in .22-250 then load down starting out, and crank them up as she gets used to it. Nate

I like the 23" barrel on the Contender as well. Plus it is easy to swap out barrels and grow with her.

I've already got a Stevens in .250 Savage that I may have cut down for her as well. I just had it bedded in a B&C Carbelite stock but could have the factory stock cut down as well. I just think the .223 will be a better choice right now.

I started my grandsons with the New England Firearms (H&R) youth model in 22 Hornet. It has put down some pretty big pigs. It's loaded with the 45gr Barnes TSX.

BTW, I sent it back to them and they got the trigger down to 2 1/2 pounds. Shoots great.

I tried a Contender carbine on my daughter when she was starting out. The current factory TC carbine barrels are all full bull 23" jobs. The carbine package weighs just over 5 pounds, BUT with the long full bull barrel, the BALANCE of the rifle is nose heavy.

This makes the rifle "seem" heavier than it is, and most of the weight is forward of a kid's off hand on the fore end.

One of the older TC 21" tapered barrels would help.

I went with a custom 18" buggy whip barrel in 6x47 (6x222 mag), solved that problem, and got the total package weight with mounted scope to just under 5 pounds.

It can be real tough for a kid with small hands to work the action on the Contender though. It was a problem for my daughter, even with Bellm's cheater bar bolted to the release lever.

When she got old enough, I put together a lefty Savage with a custom fwt 257 Roberts bbl for her, loading 100 gr bullets and a mid range powder charge.

[QUOTE]
I've already got a Stevens in .250 Savage that I may have cut down for her as well. (I) could have the factory stock cut down as well. I just think the .223 will be a better choice right now.[QUOTE]

There's the solution in your posession.
If you cut down the factory stock and load it with light bullets going slow it will barely recoil at all and the blast will be a good bit farther away than standard youth rifles.

My boys have been shooting since they were four and fired lots of smallbore but when I got a "youth" Rem SPS in .243W it took him a bit to control himself. He learned quickly how easy the smaller rifle was to pull off target, wiggle, and the muzzle blast was a bit un-nerving to him at first. Nate

There's a Remington 600 chambered in 222 on gunbroker. I have to 600's and I believe they're one of the best choices for youths or small framed folks.

I like the Vanguard/Howa 1500 Youth Package option. You get a small youth stock AND the full stock when you buy the rifle. 1500's shoot great, I really like mine and every one I've shot.

It is available in .223, as well as the usual 22-250/243/7-08/308 options. I would think a 7-08 or 308 could be loaded down to almost no recoil, especially if you used the 308 with 30-30 slugs that are made to perform at those velocities. This way she can really grow into it, and shots wouldn't be as restricted vs using a .22 of some sort. Although, at the same time, a 22-250 could be loaded down to .223 levels, and when the time came she can handle a bigger gun its already got the .473 bolt face, a re-barrel to something like .250 Savage or .260 Rem
or whatever, would be a very simple process.

A gas operated .223 is pretty ideal,my kids all have shot the AR-15, or Ruger mini 14 quite well.Have her wear soft ear plugs to control the report. The 7.62x39 mini would work great also.

Scott

You could also consider the Browning X-bolt micro hunter or the X-bolt micro Midas, which has an even shorter length of pull. I have a micro hunter in 22-250, she could shoot, but that gun is the loudest SOB in my gun safe!!!!!

I would go with the Stevens. Over at Savageshooters.com you should be able to find a factory stock to cut down, cheap. Also later as she grows you can use the original stock and change out the bolthead and barrel to a 308 class cartridge.

What I did was get my daughter a 16.5" Contender barrell in (1) .22 WMR and (2)7-30 Waters . . . barrells from Bullberry (I already had the custom forearm for their hanger system and they cut down a youth synthetic stock to fit her better) . . . we did most of the practicing with the .22 WMR . . . and kept game shot presentations close with the 7-30 Waters.

9 years old


10 years old


She doesn't notice the recoil at all when shooting at a deer.