Would like some feedback from those who live in lower elevations but spend some time in higher elevations on how well (or not) you adjust to the altitude?

To explain my question a little further, I live in West Virginia and am very much wanting to make an Elk and or Mule Deer hunt a reality for 2005! I am 34 and in good shape but since I've never been further west than Kentucky (sad but true) I'm realy concerned about what kind of effect a high altitude hunt may have on me.

Sorry I can't be any more specific than that at this time,
Any first hand experience appreciated!

I lived most of my adult life at altitudes of just a few hundred feet. Currently I live at about 2000 ft. in retirement. I wrestled with this concern all my adult life.
I've hunted and back packed to as high as 12,000 ft. and still do. I've spent many hours attempting to reasearch this in our local medical library.
Here's what I've learned.
Altitude affects people differently. Some notice the affects at 5000 ft. and everybody gets affected by 10,000 ft. unless they are aclimated. It takes 4-6 weeks to aclimate for most people. Some less, some longer.
The advice I've gathered is, first know what to expect. The high country has less oxygen. It is deceptively dry and the sun burns you much quicker due to the thinner air.
What will happen is you will suddenly realize you can't catch your breath and you may tend to panic. What you do is anticipate this by paying attention to your breathing and your actively level. The minute you notice any stress, breath deeply and slow down. Cut your pace. Use the "take a step, stop, one full, deep breath and exhale, then take second deep breath and take one more shorter step, then repeat" technique if you need to for as long as necessary.
If you can, while on your way to the high country, arrive early, and spend a few days at 5000-6000 ft.
Do your sleeping at a lower altitude. This really helps.
Drink lots of water. Don't wait to feel thirsty.
Cut back on your fat intake and eat more complex carbohydrates. The body needs oxygen to use fat as fuel. Carbs don't require it. Avoiding rich foods, high fat foods often avoids digestion problems with altitude sensitive people. Some people can't eat much when they are up high. Most, however can snack, so do so.
Carry a day pack and peel off clothing or add clothing as the day changes. Often there is a wide temperature range in the high country, even in winter.
It, the high country, is a great place to recreate. But it has it's own rules. Getting in the best shape you can helps. But understanding how to deal with the high country is the best insurance to enjoying it. E

I live on the Texas Gulf Coast, so basically I live at sea level. We have family in New Mexico and visit occasionally, and always seem to end up hiking in the mountains there several days.

The low humidity gives me nosebleeds for a day or two. The altitude makes me feel about 10 years older as soon as I start hiking those mountain trails. After 2-3 days, I can notice a definate adjustment taking place, but even 7 days later (the longest I have stayed) I am probably about 80% compared to home. Oh, I am 33 and run 2 miles during my lunch hour in about 15 minutes, so I am in fair shape at the start of these trips.

Lots of people have 'cures' for altitude issues, but I am in the 'suck it up' category. Reduce your expectations and you will do fine, but the better shape you are in before heading out, the easier it will be. Have fun!

I'll throw out a couple things Steve. The first is the altitude itself you'll be at. 7000 feet is a whole lot different than 10,000 feet. To me I start really noticing it above about 9000 feet. There are some things you can do to help compensate. The first is get in as good a shape as possible. Combine aerobic excercise with strength training both will help when hunting. Next, get to your hunting area a few days early if you can. Your body will acclimate to the altitude to a degree. Third, drink plenty of fluids and stay hydrated. You will lose a lot of water through both perspiration and respiration. Replacing those fluids is critical. Finally, relax. Remember you are going on vacation not a death march. Listen to your body. If you're tired, slow down. Take a break. Marvel at the scenery. Take half a day off and lounge in camp. I like to do that after the first couple days of hunting. If you keep your body fresh then you will keep your mind fresh. Above all have fun.

Jeff

I'm pretty much a sea-level dude myself. Our ski area in Alaska tops out at 3,000 ft elevation. 4,000 is as high as I've ever hunted in Alaska - that for Mtn goats.


Spent a couple of my younger years in Colorado (Denver area)going to school. Never really noticed it at Arapahoe Basin which tops out at around 12,000 ft.

Now that I'm 40-ish, I can realate a recent experience at high altitude. We went on a family ski vacation to Grand Targhee in Wyoming. Base elevation is 8,000 with top at 10,000 ft. Where we stayed in Alta, Wyo. was something like 4-5,000 ft elev. The first day on the slopes I was sucking wind like you wouldn't believe - thought I was going to pass out a few times - and I'm in fairly good shape. After the first day, it was no big deal.

I think you might have some difficulty the first day at altitude, so don't push yourself too hard. After that, you shouldn't have too much difficulty.

One other thing that may help some....

In addition to the dehydration, and low oxygen, your body's pH gets out of whack. The concentration of CO2 in your bloodstrem goes down as you gain alititude, and that makes your blood more alkaline, which makes you feel crummy.

Dicalcium phosphate supplements tend to buffer that a bit, and can help.

You'll probably have a great time... just do the usual: plenty of water (not pop or beer), sunscreen, bug repugnant, etc., and just enjoy yourself.

Erimicus is right on. As I've had "altitude sickness" once, while elk hunting northeast of Durango, Colorado, I assure you, you do NOT want to contract it!! At that time, I lived in Los Angeles, which is basically at sea level.

We were camped (outfitter's camp) at 10,500 feet, and hunting up to 13,000 feet. I began having trouble breathing, a fierce headache, then began having double vision, felt like I would have to get better to die.... and it was at that point, I had to get out of there and back down to lower altitude. The outfitter took me down to Durango where I visited a doctor and waited in a motel for my hunting partner to finish hunting. BTW, that horseback trip down from camp is one I'd rather never experience again!

Here's another thing to do in elk camp. Stay away from the "diuretics" such as alcohol, coffee (one cup a morning is what I now have in camp and I loved lots of camp coffee), caffinated soft drinks, etc. They'll deplete your system of water and at high altitude YOU MUST STAY HYDRATED!!!

Drink LOTS of water. Take a good water purifier and make sure you use it to keep hydrated.

If you get sick and began to have symptoms such as I described, get the Hell off that mountain. Altitude sickness can easily go into Pulmonary Pneumonia (it did with me and I was very, very sick!). It can kill you.

After I returned home to L.A., one sick puppy, I might add, I researched the subject. Two years later, I went back to that same outfitter out of Durango, same elk camp, same altitude, but armed with the knowledge of how to combat altitude sickness. I applied that knowledge to my hunting trip and had zero problems. I drank upward of a gallon of water EACH day, had one cup of morning coffee, and one drink of Scotch, the night I killed a bull elk, to celebrate.

Came up with what Erimicus researched. Now, I go hunting/camping in the high country with lots of water, watch my food types, and never have a problem.

Other people's experiences may differ, but that is mine.

Good luck. L.W.

Well, I think it's important to note that there's been a variety of reaction to altitude. You might drill down to one thought:

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.

As for me, I last went from living in St. Louis to a 5-day trip in New Mexico chasing elk. The elevation was between 8000 and 9000 feet. I had zero problems but the living arrangements were quite comfy too and that makes a big difference for me. I drank as much water as I could stand, more from the lack of humidity than the altitude, and managed to walk so much that the biggest problem for me was blisters and aching joints. As for my shape, at that time anyway, it was decent, playing basketball mainly, so given the bad experiences I'm guessing I was a bit lucky perhaps. Age, late 30's. This stuff's kind of easy for me though, I hadn't played ball in about one month and last night went for just shy of three hours of full court.

Other experiences were going from eastern North Dakota out to Colorado and skiing at Copper Mountain. Zero problems. That was pretty easy compared to elk hunting though as I spent the day sliding down the hill and having a quad power me back up the hill.

Maybe I'm just lucky?

Next time around will be a trip up into Wyoming where the elevation is even higher than what I experienced in New Mexico. I will more then likely attempt to be in much better shape for this particular trip so I anticipate no problems. If I have any problems I'm very much adept at kicking back and taking it easy for a day.

Good luck.

Reed

All have given you great information and should help you. However, depending when you go you may not have to deal with that much elevation. If you try an early season hunt you could get to 10,000. But most likely you will be at no more than 8,500. And there are plenty of good locations at 7,000. A those levels if you keep hydrated about the most it effect you is a little faster heart rate for the first few days which always keeps me up at night till I acclimate.

Age will work against you. I was born and raised in New Mexico and hunted all my life. No problems from sea level to 15,000. My ex-wife and son might get a nose bleed the first day above 6,000'; me, no sweat. Ate a lot and slept a lot.

Then I hit 45. I took the 5-stage tram from Merida to the top of Pico Bolivar at 15,007' in one go. Felt light-headed at the top after I had been there 30 minutes or so, and watched two people fall over. No biggie.

Then I hit 50. I flew in to Quito from Guayaquil and had a throbber of a headache.

Last summer at 56 we drove from Las Cruces, New Mexico to Cloudcroft and I had a low-grade headache the whole three days we were in the mountains. (Shot the best round of golf in my life, probably no connection) I believe Cloudcroft is around 6-7,000'. Immediately when coming down to Alamogordo, less than an hour drive, I felt fine.

So now I'm sitting here, a year older, and in three weeks I'll be flying to Norman Wells in the NWTs of Canada to hunt Dall's sheep in the MacKenzie Mountains for ten days. Not sure what to expect, but I'm getting there a day ahead of everyone else to give me time to take inventory of how I feel. I plan to pace myself, drink plenty of fluids, have plenty of Tylenol, and hopefully be smart enough to listen to what my body is telling me. (My wife suspects I'm not that smart.)

I live at about 1200' outside Pittsburgh. I am in my late 30s and in good shape because I run from April through August in preperation for my elk hunts. 5 miles 4-5 times a week. I hunt elk for 10 days every year from a base camp of 10,500', usually getting intoelk at over 11,500'. It is not a big deal as long as you get your cardio system into shape. A local guy also told me to eat Rolaids & take asprin. Which I do, a post abve hinted at why this helps, I never knew before. Anyway, I have never had altitude sickness from this hunt. Even though I fly into Durango and the next day I am at 10,500' I really believe that the best thing you can do is be in the best shape possible. Regardless of age. I read that that between 10-12,000' your body will oprerate at 80% of what you are used to if you live below 2000'. Provided that you are in good shape. If you do not run to get your legs & lungs in shape, I am sure that efficency would most likely be revearsed.

All the other advice about keeping hydrated & coming down if you start getting altitude sickness (headaches, diziness or in extreme cases loss of motor fnctions )is sound. The ONLY thing you can do is come down or be carried down.

Don't worry about it to much. Take it easy out of camp the first day or two & you will most likely be fine. Good luck on your hunt!

I will be camped back at 10,500' in early September for archery elk again this year. I can't wait

when you arrive at La Paz, Bolivia, at 12.000 ft above S.L. first thing you get even at the 5*-hotels is a mate de coca, a tea based on coca leaves. This really helps to get over the soroche or altitude sickness. It is not a narcotic, you get it there at the supermarkets as well and the Quechua indians use it constantly, more as a mild stimulant.

I found that exerxising mildly after a day or two helps to adapt a little faster.

Before I made my first hunting trip to Colo, I was talking to a fellow from there. I told him that I was in good shape but I was a bit afraid of the altitude as I liked my cigarettes and whiskey. He replied, " So do I. Just remember don't try to do it all at once." Even tho you may feel some pressure since your time may be limited, take it easy the first couple of days.

Steve,

Don't let the fear of high altitude keep you from doing something you want, just be aware of your body and the signs it may give you.

Leanwolf is right, altitude sickness can kill you (it killed a healthy young man during a school ski trip where I used to teach) but just be aware and be ready to pussy out big time if your body starts giving you hints. There has been a lot of good advice given here so I second all that stuff too.

But the main thing is to follow your aspirations and don't get over ruled by fear.

I live in the Houston area (i.e., sea level). When I'm going to the high country to hunt I start taking asprin and vitamin C (every day) about 1 week before I depart and the whole time I'm there. Also, stay hydrated.

Staying hydrated, etc. are all excellent things to do while you're in the high-altitude enviornment to cope with your body's adjustment, however, I would recommend that you start preparing your body now for the hunt. Though altitude may be a significant problem, you may also be walking on steeper ground than you are used to. Not knowing your physical condition or exercise history I would recommend the following: Begin with 20-40 minutes of cardio training per day, 3-5 days per week (walking fast on the elevated treadmill is excellent, though you may want to mix in some faster jogging or running to get your heart rate up). Make goals for yourself and stick to them, keep track of your progress. Stairclimbers are also excellent for this kind of preparation, mix up the speed & intensity so you don't get into a rut. The good news is that you don't have to buy expensive equipment or join a gym if you don't want to. Find the tallest building in town and go up & down the stairs as many times as you can- increase the amount weekly and when you get closer to your trip start doing it in your boots and carrying your pack. Since you live in W. VA. I assume that you've got some hills in the area, go for hikes when time allows and get used to walking uphill on uneven terrain. If you haven't done so in a while, I'd recommend getting a phyiscal before you start any kind of exercise routine and tell the Doc of your plans. I've found that the better the shape that I'm in, the less effects of altitude that I feel. Good luck and have some fun, at the end of your training you'll probably weigh less, and will therfore have less baggage to haul up the mountains!

I used to live 20 feet below sea level (The Netherlands), and moved to the Calgary area about 18 months ago. Now I live at 3,500 feet, hunt up to 7,500 feet, and probably higher this fall. I found, but office life has turned me into a whimp, that dealing with the steep inclines is probably more of an issue than altitude. I've been half way up a sheep mountain, gasping for breath, to the point of thinking there wasn't enough oxygen in the world to help me. But I've had the same at my little practice hill behind the house. I think that 40 years of living on the flats prevent me from being a mountain goat.

I've had the nose bleeds, but think they are more caused by dry air than the altitude. The gasping for air I attribute to poor condition, and lack of experience in scaling the mountain (after a year and a half in the hills I've discovered that "straight up", though usually the shortest distance is not always the best route).

Sports doctors usually have our Dutch skating team up high (a mile or so) for about a week, before bringing them down to the skating ring for the championships. I remember some skaters complained about the feeling of being short of oxygen in Salt Lake City (1500 meters high?) even after a training week in Calgary (1000 meters high) just prior to that. The guys that stayed higher up in the foothills didn't seem to have this problem. Conclusions from this might be (I'm not a doctor) that adaptation to altitude is relatively fast (one to two weeks).

I also remember reading that there is no real memory effect, the body loses whatever is built-up during the stay at altitude pretty rapidly. It doesn't help to stay in the mountains for a while if you are going back to sea level prior to your altitude hunt for any length of time.

Different rules may apply though when you get into the 10,000 regions and higher...some of the Marco Polo chasers, usually in very good physical shape, lean towards taking medication to prevent altitude sickness...

Here's an interesting site about altitude sickness, including some info on medication:
http://www.high-altitude-medicine.com/AMS.html

On this site, it is stated that *generally* they don't start worrying about altitude sickness below 8000 feet....
So there goes my excuse....it can't be altitude that's bugging me, it's just my poor physical shape :-(

Frans

Steve,

Disclaimer: I am not an MD and this is not medical advice. The following is my opinion based on reading and experience.

Symptoms can be nonexistent to severe. Severe symptoms can include brain and/or lung swelling (pulmonary or cerebral edema) either of these can be fatal if not treated. Other symptoms can include shortness of breath, headache, nausea, and disorientation among others. People react differently to altitude. Most experience some shortness of breath above 8500 ft. some may develop full blown pulmonary or cerebral edema.

The problem stems from the fact that atmospheric pressure lessens with increasing altitude. Lower atmospheric pressure means a lower partial pressure for the gasses contained in air INCLUDING OXYGEN. Bottom line; the higher you go the less oxygen is available. The body will compensate for this to some extent by producing more red blood cells that carry hemoglobin molecules that transport oxygen. Blood volume may also increase. This compensating process can take some time to happen, drinking plenty of water can help.

My own experience is that the best things to do are to 1) arrive as early as possible and sleep as much as you can 2) drink lots of water 3) pay attention to danger signs, if you start to feel bad GET TO A LOWER ALTITUDE. Discuss this with your companions. If one person becomes disoriented the others need to get him down the hill. There are too many stories of disoriented climbers that wind up dead.

At the altitudes you are likely to experience during a Rocky Mt. hunt you should not have too much trouble. However, it can happen and you should be aware of the possible problems and how to deal with them.

Best regards;
Brett

I second the recommendation for exercise but have a slightly different take.

In 2000 an ex-girlfriend and I went to visit her sister in the Colo. mountains -- about 7500 feet. I had no problem there, even with jogging in the morning. (On a different visit, their reasonably fit mother had to go to the hospital and then carry an oxygen bottle.)

At the time, I was doing a lot of long-distance endurance training. But at some of the scenic overlooks in the parks, I was short of breath walking from the car to the guardrail.

On the other hand, for the last 4-5 months I've been doing a different program that emphasizes intense high-speed strength training and sprinting -- anaerobic stuff that will really leave you gasping. (www.crossfit.com in case you're interested.)

So, 2 weeks ago I went to visit a friend in Red River, NM (also about 7500 feet). While there I hiked an hour or so at 8-9,000 feet, and we also drove as high as 11,000 and got out to walk around. Never felt a bit short of breath.

So I have to think (based on no science but it kind of makes sense) that anaerobic exercise has more benefit for altitude endurance.

BTW I was doing everything else opposite to what some recommend -- eating high protein and low carbs, drinking lots of coffee and not enough water.

John

People who live at low altitude can get a prescription pill if they are going to exert at high altitude. The best thing is to arrive several days early and acclimatize. But you have to be fit at low altitude, or you are sunk at high altitude.

For those interested,

There is a book, it's been out of print for a while, my copy 4th edition is early '80s, 1st edition 1960, "Mountaineering, The Freedom of the Hills", that has a lot of interesting material that would be of interest to hunters doing the high altitude hunts. Good read. Got my copy at a yard sale.

Joe

Mountaineering: The Freedom of the Hills is still in print. My edition is #5, from 1992, so I imagine edition 6 is the current one.

There are some books on mountain medicine available from Amazon and others.

There are even a few thin books that deal specifically with altitude sickness.

The only cure for altitude sickness is descent. If you are going from the flats to hunt up in the hills take a few extra days on the front end to acclimatize if you can.

There are a couple of medicines to take with you. Diamox can save your hunt. Decadron (a steroid like cortisone) can save your life.

The old mountain climbing adage from my misspent youth was climb high, sleep low. Good advice.

Read up on the condition. If you get real sick, get off the mountain. Don't try to cowboy through it.

JCN

Thanks for the replies! I've done a little research on the subject but nothing beats learning from the first hand knowledge on this board!

Beeman, you live just a few miles up the road from me. Could you possibly compare hiking in the high country to hiking in the mountains here as far as terrain?

JCN,

Thanks for the heads up on the up to date printing info on the book. I was just going by what my used bookie dealer told me when I asked after acquiring same.

Joe

I made my first trip to the Rockies in 1978, on a bowhunt for elk.
I was 26 years old, and experienced no altitude-related illness.

I went back to Colorado in 90-91? and went down with altitude sickness.

The same happened on my next two trips (Colorado & Montana).

My symptoms on the three trips were about the same:

Day 1: No problems.
Day 2: Marked increase in physical exertion.

Then, sudden extreme weakness, barely able to walk, collapse in my bunk, slight nauseous feeling, unable to eat. On one trip I even passed completely out, and was so weak I couldn't even speak. I had to be carried/dragged back to camp.

On all three occasions, the symptoms ceased abruptly after resting 24 hours. As if I hadn't even been sick. I began to eat again, and by the next day, I was keeping up with everybody (even the locals).

(BTW, my hunting buddy is 3 years older than me, no better physical condition, and had zero problems with the altitude).

Then two years ago I went to ski for a week in Breckenridge, Colorado, with peaks at around 11,000 feet. Our Condo was about 9,500 feet. I had no problem with the altitude.

The difference? DIAMOX, and more hydration awareness.

Now, I wouldn't dream of tackling high altitude without a bottle of Diamox tablets.

Rick.

This is all exellent and practical advice, but it may help to explain what your body is trying to do while you are adjusting to the altitude. The most important thing is that you will build a lot of new red cells in your blood and increase your blood volume. This take a LOT of energy and a LOT of water on top of what you will be loosing due to low humidity and exertion. In addition, the lower overall pressure of the air...which has less oxygen to boot, will fill your lungs less full. When you inhale, you are actually RELAXING intercostal muscles to allow the normal ambient ait pressure to fill your lungs. This gives you a sense of breathlessness when you respirations go up and the lower CO2 in your blood can make you anxious. This is exacerbated by even moderate drinking or smoking until you adjust.

areobic exercise for the weeks before you go up will help and is worth doing, but it is not a cure all. Long periods of a moderate heart rate increase are better than intense shorter periods. Another very helpful routine is areobic exercise in the water in a vertical position so the water pressure is compressing you chest and diaphram. You will note that when you start this activity, it will feel like you can't get a deep breath...that's a good thing...you will improve you breathing capacity, and all but do away with the breathless sensation at altitude as long as you don't push it. Swimming is not as good as you are too high in the water to get much water pressure against your chest.

Aside from that, just remember that the full adjustment will not occur until you have manufactured a lot of red blood cells. The older you are the longer this part will take.

The dangerous effects are related to the fact that your brain will swell as you go up, and different folks have different amounts of space in the cranium. Children under 10 almost never do. If you exceed the capacity of your cranium, your brain can act bruised and swell much more and this is a serious condition, as comng down may not reverse this swelling if you don't do it soon enough. Anything that indicates brain swelling means that it is time to come down. Don't ever take a child over 9000 feet if they are under 10 for more than a few hours.