just kidding, i just wanted to see the hackles rise.....

FWIW, i do not and would never use them on game, that's what game-kings and pro-hunters are for.

Then talk to Dan Lilja at Lilja custom barrels. He's used them on game. Also, if you go to the cover page for AR, you can look at all the videos. Some of the hunters in Africa are using Match Kings on game.

When I first began reloading, I worked in a gun/archery store in Tucson, AZ. One of the guys recommended I load some MatchKings for accuracy. He didn't bother telling me that they were NOT meant for game. So, I being the ignorant one, loaded some up for me and a friend in our .06's. My friend killed about 7 deer on my farm in Alabama with them. You would have never known they weren't for game.

As soon as I learned the truth of the matter, I never used them again for hunting, but they sure were accurate in my friends rifle. I turned him onto Ballistic Tips. He's just as satisfied. Never lost a deer.

Never mind...

I knew better than to get involved in this again...

I've killed around 25 deer with 0.308 diameter, 190gr Matchkings shot from a highly modified M70 post-64 in 30-06. I have also shot around 20 feral dogs (large ones) with the same load. The deer were for the most part shot at ranges greater than 400 yards from a tractor or a truck (crop destruction pest control NOT hunting) with bags (very steady rest in other words). The dogs were shot because of attacks on people (some counties actually paid bounties). This all goes back a good 20 years. All of them died pretty quickly, and I don't recall ever shooting anything more than once. I do recall shooting a second deer before the first one fell, though.

God alone knows how many earth worms and grubs it has claimed on the 500 yard line (not to mention the 100 and 300 lines)!

ASS_CLOWN

PS - that oughta help you get them fired up.

Are we having a reunion already??

Where's Pop, I wanna see what he looks like nowadays??

matchkings are not hunting bullets .

How many pages did this topic get last time?

Hey Ron, after the long range stuff it made me laugh, which I needed after a long hard day.

You guys are doing it wrong!!

You have to include a 45-70 shooting Match Kings on Cape Buffalo to have any REAL fun!!!

Gatehouse,

It is just too damned bad that Sierra doesn't offer a 550 gr Flat Point Matchking in 0.458" diameter. If they did it would indeed make for the ultimate 45-70 dangerous game load, of that I have NO DOUBT!

ASS_CLOWN

perhaps, but could you hit a runnning button-buck with it at 834.7 yards straight up the kazoo and into the vitals??

uphill, into the sun with rain falling and a 24.86 mph wind?

I can do that left handed with my pants down and a roll of TP under my arm.

FIVE STARS!!!!!

WELL, I have taken(of sorts) ONE deer with a 175gr MatchKing out of a .308 at a range that would upset some folks so I won't post it, just to say that it WAS over 200yds.(by a bunch)

I heard a call go out of a car hit deer and was still alive and even though off duty I was only a couple of mles away and went to see what if any help was needed.(one of the things about going to a very rural county, small town area, everyone has radios in the POVs and you help out whether you are working on the clock or not) I arrive just after the trooper and there is this doe, dragging herself over the freshly plowed field headed towards the woodline about 800yds away. It's pretty obvious her back is broken. All the people there are looking at the troop about "what are you going to do for the deer" by now it's well over "200yds" away and the troop has nothing in his vehicle to handle "it".
I went back to my Jeep and dragged out my dedicated "police crisis intervention rifle" from the hardcase. a Savage 10FP restocked and bedded. I do the range calculations with the Shepherd.
THe load was a 175gr Matchking profiled to the scope.
The deer stopped to take a break, I fired, it dropped. Didn't move after that. SO, either it chose that very adventageous moment to die from it's injuries or I hit something very vital. everyone was satisfied it was down and nobody wanted the deer for meat. SO, I didn't go and do an autopsy, but it seemed to work well enough to drop a hyped up deer from distance.
Personally not my choice for 4 legged game, but "rumor" has it, it works wonders for other "wild game".

NOW the REALLY amazing thing about that incident was NO ONE who was there even questioned this guy(me) pulling out this rifle and potting this deer. I was in civy clothes with no identifiers and the troop never said anything to anyone about me being a badge. The ONLY comment was one of them said, "nice shot." It was just taken in stride by the locals there as "just another day in the country." Nothing like country living.

tas,

Quote:

---

but could you hit a runnning button-buck with it at 834.7 yards straight up the kazoo and into the vitals??

---

The problem would undoubtedly be one of OVER PENETRATION as at that range the 45-70 would be down in the weeds velocity wise, where EVERYONE knows they penetrate like NO TOMORROW.

As far as making that kinda shot, I could make that sliding down a steep hills side, in the opposite direction of the deer I might add, after loosing my footing in the loose leaves/snow. AKA it would be too easy to even remotely refer to it as sporting.

ASS_CLOWN

Throughout all the nonsensical bullshit, I have yet to discover one single, solitary, solid reason to select Matchkings for any sort of big game hunting over bullets that were really and truly designed for big game hunting, (rather than punching paper) which was what the MK was designed for in the first place. And yes, I've used MKs for about 14 big game animals, at distances between 100 and over 500 yds. Without question, MKs are the WORST excuse for a BG bullet that I've ever used, and I will NEVER use them again for any hunting purpose. They are erratic: Some will work just fine, and others will either blow up or not penetrate or open up at all. They are a tin-foil, bullshit hunting bullet, and Sierra was right to recommend that they NOT be used on game animals......

Quite honestly, if you have a true big game bullet that produces honest and consistent 1" groups at 100yds., you have plenty of accuracy for any big game hunting at any range. The MKs offer not practical advantage. Period!

I think a lot of guys have varmint accuracy confused with big game accuracy -- mostly because thaey spend more time punching paper than they do hunting big game animals........

AD

Allen, Sierra has other bullets of similar design that they do recommend for game, and sometimes they do the same thing. I only know this from experience. Yes, the MK's are somewhat fragile at high impact velocities but so are a lot of bullets. Regardless of what you may think of them, I've seen enough to think they may indeed be fine bullets in a narrowly defined application. They do have one indisputable feature that stands in their favor, and that is some high BC's for selected bullets that are quite heavy for caliber, and for the most part nobody else makes them like that in quantity. They are also very well constructed and as a result are capable of consistant sub-MOA accuracy. A lot of sub...

I have none in my inventory at the moment, but I do not dismiss them out of hand any more than I would Partitions or Ballistic Tips, or any other rifle bullet. They have their uses.

That would be my nonsensical addition to this bullshit.

allen -



all bullshit aside, i agree.

Well Allen, you are pretty much spot on as far as I am concerned. There are plenty of good bullets that shoot well at long range without using MKs. I don't get it either.

But the post, following on the heels of the long range stuff, was funny.

AD



At what point in your ~14 big game animal career with MatchKings did you decide they no longer worked??



Could it have been at the point where you made a piss poor shot and an animal walked and your delusional conclusion was the problem was solely due to bullet failure??



How many other types/brands of bullets have you evaluated and determined to be inadequate for big game???



Seems like folks are always looking for a scapegoat for some unexplained/unexpected outcome mostly due to their own error(s).





I've had nothing short of phenominal success with Matchkings: several moose (~170 to 439 yards), 4 or 5 black bears (~10 to ~30 yards), hundreds of whitetail deer (a few feet to many hundreds of yards), tens of feral hogs (~20 to ~400 yards), groundhogs (~10 to ~740 yards), paper (25 to ~1200 yards), steel (100 to 1000 yards), rocks (small rocks, in season of course). I don't immediately recall the need to shoot any critter more than once although for some of the groundhogs I need to shoot a few times to hit them (those little twinkie size late spring models and some standing ones in windy conditions). Ohhh wait a minute... I did shoot a deer twice, I was using a 6.5x284 with 142MKs, I shot a crop damage doe double lung broadside and it then ran a short way and stopped facing dead away from me acting oddly, I then shot it a second time and it went down straight away (~250 yards). Damn those useless Matchkings, next time I'll use a Ballistic Tip or an A-Max....NOT!!

You need to take a remedial reading class or maybe just learn to pay closer attention.

I've taken 14 animals with MKs, but over 15 score of big game animals with everything else in some 20 states and 8 foreign countries. Those 14 kills with MKs have not exactly defined my career -- not even close -- as you have ignorantly interpreted from my previous post, but they have surely provided enough evidence that just about everything else works better, and in a much more predicatble, reliable manner.

I've had MKs not open up at all, drill completely through and behave like a solids. I've had them penetrate just a couple of inches, not open up at all, and stop. I've had them blow up and ruin capes, and Jim Carmichel of 'Outdoor Life' was a witness to an example of that. I've also had them behave acceptably and act like a standard expanding bullet such as a Speer Hot Core. For me, they have been absolutely erratic.

When I can get (for example) Nosler Partitions to produce sub MOA groups or less and act 100% reliably on everything from tiny African critters to elk, why in the world would I want to further use MKs for any sort of big game hunting? I ran out of patience with theoretical hunting accuracy a long time ago, but I know it still thrills certain people who don't know any better. Paper accuracy at all costs can be a very, very bitter bargain. Reliable bullet construction is far more important than a few thousands of an inch group size, and I don't care where you're hunting big game.

If you're hunting pocket gophers at long range, maybe MK will provide some sort of meaningful edge. For real-world big game hunting they will only in theory.......

AD

I think the biggest potential problem with Sierra MKs on animals is the fact Sierra recommends not to use them. This recommendation allows Sierra complete freedom in design of the bullet and whether such new design turns out to be brilliant for shooting animals or a waste of time, is of no concern to Sierra.

Older shooters might remember that Sierra MKs use to be FMJs.

Just recently a mate of mine used the 107 grain Sierra in a 264 Winchester bench style gun for kangaroos. Mid and low chest shots and the animals hopped off. Some of the roos showed large exists which when the roo hopps off as if it was not hit that usually indicates a bullet that has expanded very late. On the other hand several silouette (sp) shooters in Australia use the 168 Sierra with good results on roos.

For those who strongly recommend Sierra MKs such as Mr King I think your endorsement should be qualified by batch numbers or whatever. It is quite possible that the next lot of Sierra MKs could be the best bullet for deer or elk the world has ever seen. They could also be the worse bullet and in either case it will be an accident of design.

Mike

Is this is what is known in editorial circles as a re print?

seafire
should be titled " Matchkings on Game? 2004"

So, help me out here. You're saying according to the Ci's of those bullets, using a MK doesn't make any sense? If so, science is science.

I give the benefit of the doubt here as there may be more to it. Until then I will use hunting bullets.

Wayne, in the .300 Win. Mag. the only MKs I've used have been the 168s at 3200+ fps. As far as pronghorn goes, I've only taken two bucks with these bullets. One was a very quick and decisive kill without muss or fuss, and the other resulted in a really ugly exit wound that was so violent that the cape could not be salvaged. Maybe D'Arcy's 190s are a better option from every point of consideration. He's one guy I'd never want to argue with when it comes to hunting pronghorn!

Personally, I'd rather stick with a single pronghorn-to-moose load in the .300 Win. Mag. that I can hunt with just about anywhere, so I've standardized on the 180gr. Nosler Partition at about 3100 fps. My last New Mexicon pronghorn was taken with that bullet........

AD

In the intrest of science I have used Sierra Matchkings [wonder why THEY call them that] on a few animals. The load was Federal factory 168 gr Match King. I have several thousand of these factory loads on hand. I shot 2 pigs, a coyote and a turkey. All were killed PDQ...
However... the necropsy of the animals showed that the bullet performance left something to be desired.
As Sierra has said many times these bullets are not designed for hunting. They make the bullets and they should know. I have found Sierra GAMEKINGS [wonder why THEY call them them that?] and Nosler Ballistic Tips to be every bit as accurate as the Matchkings in hunting rifles. In fact I have never, not been able to find a load with Nosler Partitions that was very accurate, even to ranges as far as 300 to 600 yards.
Even though I have quite a bit of factory Matchkings on hand I will reload or buy factory ammo with other bullets to hunt with. It is the bullet that does the work. You owe it to the anomal to pick the best bullet for the job.
P.S. If you cannot figure out what the best bullet might be, just use a Nolser Partiton of the proper bore diameter and weight for the animal being hunted, you will never be wrong.