30-30 lever gun stuffed full of 170 grn round nose partitions

44 RM 6 shot revolver with full force jacketed 240's

454 Casull 5 shot revolver with full force 300 grn Nosler Partitions

Question:
What is the best gun of these 3 for deadly bears of the 3 choices from above

All are shooting top performing loads

Bring it !!

Choices:
30-30
44 RM
454 Casull

 

I wouldn't consider the Nosler Partition in the .454 to be optimal for bear protection, nor the 240 grain bullet in the .44. JMHO.

Good job.....this is how we start

Remember.....it's placement

None of the above three choices!!!

Of the 3 the only one I carried was the 44 Mag. I think I had Silvertips in it. And later a heavier solid type that I cant remember. Even later I carried it with the Garrett 44 ammo in it.

While the Silvertips weren't optimal as a bear buster when I shot a number of them I was impressed (then 1980s) with the amount of penetration and the bullet staying together. That was years ago though - just so everybody understands I am not advocating them now.

I sure looked at the 454 a few times and even bought an early 500 S&W. But if I cant handle it with a 44Mag then I am going to need a heavy rifle. One of the Alaskan guides had such a heavy compact rifle in the form of a 460 Weatherby with a short barrel on it. For me the handguns stop at 44 though.

While you "hear" all kinds of things, I have heard that a 45 Auto ACP like a 1911 is quite good and has deterred bear attacks. While not as powerful of course, the multiple hot 45 rounds flying in to the bear apparently distracted him and after swatting around some decided to go in a different direction.

In my early trips to Alaska in the 1980s I think the guns I saw with the local guys there were either 222's, 30-06s, and maybe a few 44 Mags was about it.

I bought my first 44 Mag right after an Alaska trip. I heard something tearing through the brush and I thought this is going to be tough. Of course I was thinking bear. But it was a cow moose. And she looked really mad. Up close and with no gun she looked even bigger and at least as mean as a cape buffalo lol. She must have had a calf close by or I got between her and the calf.

So I say 44Mag if you are carrying it on your body.

I'd pick a 30/30 without exception.

If I knew I was going to be attcked by a bear I would want the 30/30...

However carrying a rifle 100% of the time when not hunting is a pain and you will not be able to do it while doing chores, cooking,fishing, etc.

So, for a carrying gun for bear protection, I would pick the 44 Mag with a 300gr or so hard cast lead bullet.

The problem with full power 454 Casull loads is that I would not want to shoot them with one hand from an awkward wrist position.

quote:

Originally posted by Snellstrom:
I'd pick a 30/30 without exception.

Somehow I just knew that post was coming sooner or later, LOL!

My first thought was if you are on a horse then a 30-30 would be great. But I did not get the impression that you were on horseback.

Just today I almost bought yet another Winchester 30-30 while at the gun shop. While I already have them in both pre64 and later, just thinking of being on a horse with one in the scabbard is just right.

I have killed 2 deer with a 30/30 lever action Winchester rifle.

And I have killed several deer, several pigs, 3 coyotes, and a few turkeys with a Heym model 26B O/U, in 30/30. This is one of my most favorite hunting rifles.

I can say that the 30/30 kills game within 150 yards as good as ANY other calibre I have used.

What more can you ask???

If you have read "Last of the Brown Bear Men", the subjects of the book having the old advertisement displayed on this very website on the hunts for sale section, you would note that Talifson stated that the largest brown bear either of them ever shot (squaring over 11 feet)was taken with a Winchester 94 in 30-30. Frankly, a 30-30 would not be my choice, however, it has proven to do the job on many occasions.

quote:

Originally posted by buckeyeshooter:
If you have read "Last of the Brown Bear Men", the subjects of the book having the old advertisement displayed on this very website on the hunts for sale section, you would note that Talifson stated that the largest brown bear either of them ever shot (squaring over 11 feet)was taken with a Winchester 94 in 30-30. Frankly, a 30-30 would not be my choice, however, it has proven to do the job on many occasions.

Seems as though that last sentence is precisely what I stated in the other thread that went to hell in a handbasket, LOL!

I voted 30-30 but mainly because I agree with Whitworth. If you were to change the bullet selection in the others, the choice might be different. Hardcast would be a better choice, if it was me.

quote:

Originally posted by larrys:
I voted 30-30 but mainly because I agree with Whitworth. If you were to change the bullet selection in the others, the choice might be different. Hardcast would be a better choice, if it was me.

My exact sentiments.

The problem with that is you loose the closest apples to apples comparison

For that matter I could go with a stouter bullet in the 30-30

How so?

With only those three specific choices: the 30-30 with the 170 Partition.

My real choice: probably the same but a closer gap to the second place 44 Mag revolver with 310 grain Hard cast FN at about 1100 FPS. I shoot one of those pretty good with lots of drawing and firing practice over the years.

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
How so?

What aspect of my response are you referring to?

quote:

Originally posted by ted thorn:
The problem with that is you loose the closest apples to apples comparison

This part. Not sure what you mean.

I tried to keep the bullets as close as my load calculator could.

I only had Nosler bullets in the selection to calculate max MV and ME

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
If I knew I was going to be attcked by a bear I would want the 30/30...

However carrying a rifle 100% of the time when not hunting is a pain and you will not be able to do it while doing chores, cooking,fishing, etc.

So, for a carrying gun for bear protection, I would pick the 44 Mag with a 300gr or so hard cast lead bullet.

The problem with full power 454 Casull loads is that I would not want to shoot them with one hand from an awkward wrist position.

My thought exactly!

I carry a Freedom Arms .454 Casull (7-1/2" barrel), but loaded with Corbon 300+-grain hard-cast ammo.

From a slight distance 25 yds or greater the 30 30 has the advantage. Inside that distance a 6 shot .44 mag double action revolver with 4-6 inch barrel and heavy for caliber bullets is your best bet. If you go to the ground with a bear the short barreled double action revolver is more maneuverable and shots can be fired single handedly much quicker with a firmer grip than trying to cock and fire a single action, allowing you to use your opposite arm to fend off or feed the bear. I've killed quite a few deer with cast bullets in my .41 and they break bone, fragment and cause a bunch of damage. When I lived in Alaska I carried my .41 in the back country. Personally I'd opt for a Benelli M4 Tactical with slugs and buckshot. Short, light and nasty.

Seeing how I currently own a 454 and have a few hundred rounds of stout loads through it I would chose it. However, my bullet choice would be the 300gr PUNCH of which I have a nice stash.

My 2nd choice would be my Rem Mod 600 in 350Mag, also stoutly loaded.

I find these discussions to be interesting and I like talking guns.

But in all reality if I was carrying a long gun for bear protection it would not be my 30-30.

But a good decent caliber repeating long gun beats most any handgun for power and shoot ability.

If I do not have a long gun available for what ever reason. Mostly because I am not hunting and carrying one is a pain.

In black bear only country I am satisfied with what ever is on my hip at the time.

When I 'am in grizzly country I prefer one of my magnum double action revolvers with a good penetrating bullet.

As a last ditch thing, I choose the one I'd likely have one me, which would be a handgun. They are not optimal, but more often than not the rifle will not be in your hands when ugly things occur. I would wear it in a chest holster and I'd shoot the Casull with Hardcast anything.

The 30-30 is the "best" of the cartridges listed but it is far from the "best" big bear hunting cartridge. Personally I would use nothing smaller than the 3006 on big bear and ideally I would want to use a 22mm anti-aircraft gun.

I am definitely a believer in "bigger is better"

I chose the .454 because of the three choices thats the only one I own. It would NOT however be loaded with JHP. I like CorBon Penetrators but a heavy hard cast slug would be fine with me also.

quote:

Originally posted by ted thorn:
I tried to keep the bullets as close as my load calculator could.

I only had Nosler bullets in the selection to calculate max MV and ME

Ted,

Your rational is understandable, the issue they're addressing is that handgun hunters wouldn't use your listed bullets for bear hunting or for self protection in bear country. So although you were trying for an apples-to-apples comparison it is actually an apples-to-peaches comparison because you handicapped the revolvers usefulness.

If I was hunting the big bears, I would be carrying either my .300 Weatherby for the inland grizzlies or my .375 RUM for the coastal brownies.

However, I have hunted in Montana grizzly country for the last 40 years, and for many of those years, along with my rifle, I also carried my Ruger SBHK .44 RM loaded with hard cast 240 grain semi wadcutter bullets.

In all of those years, the only encounter that I had with a grizzly was one year two friends and I were hunting together. We had a tent camp at the end of a Forest Service road, and we used my horses to hunt in the wilderness beyond camp

We had two bull elk and a bull moose hanging in our camp.

One night, just before going to bed, I went out of the tent and a grizzly bear woofed and was clicking his teeth at me. I was standing on the edge of the road, and he was on top of the cut bank, about 30 feet from me.

I had my .44 Ruger on my hip, so I held the light on him with one hand and shot a bullet over his head. He didn't even blink, so I shot another bullet into the pine tree next to him.

Again, he just stood there clicking his teeth at me. So I holstered my .44 and picked up an apple size rock, which I threw at and hit him. He then turned and ran off into the darkness.

That bear had a tag in his ear, and when we got back to town, I reported the incident to the FWP and found out that this grizzly had been a problem bear near Cooke City where he was trapped, then he was released in the area where we were hunting near West Yellowstone, MT.

They used to release problem bears in Glacier up at Kintla Lake. I went camping there with a girl friend before I knew better. They chased us out of there, I swear it was a grizzly convention ...

quote:

Originally posted by capoward:

quote:

Originally posted by ted thorn:
I tried to keep the bullets as close as my load calculator could.

I only had Nosler bullets in the selection to calculate max MV and ME

Ted,

Your rational is understandable, the issue they're addressing is that handgun hunters wouldn't use your listed bullets for bear hunting or for self protection in bear country. So although you were trying for an apples-to-apples comparison it is actually an apples-to-peaches comparison because you handicapped the revolvers usefulness.

Exactly.

Hardcast or not.....the 30-30 gets my vote and is no slouch

quote:

Originally posted by ted thorn:
Hardcast or not.....the 30-30 gets my vote and is no slouch

It is next to my .500 Linebaugh......

Seriously, though, I don't know if you've done any handgun hunting, Ted, but these things loaded properly kill all out of proportion to what their paper ballistics would suggest. Big, deep holes every time......

However, I am a fan of the .30/30....

But I can't shoot them good enough to make big holes. That's why I need a shoulder fired rifle

quote:

Originally posted by ted thorn:
But I can't shoot them good enough to make big holes. That's why I need a shoulder fired rifle

Haha! Fair enough, Ted!