quote:

Originally posted by sdkidaho:

quote:

Originally posted by Jon Beutler:

For hells sake, get off the couch and look outside, and formulate your "own" views.

And perhaps I'm preaching to the choir and misread your reply. I hope so. I hope so because I see you're from Utah. Well, guess what? You guys have some awesome elk and deer hunting there and I hate to tell you, but Utah has some Yellowstone wolves. That's a fact. It won't be long until you folks will get to experience this "joy". The difference will be that your "fellow" sportsmen from Idaho, Wyoming, and Montana, will actually support you when you need the help to fight local and federal governments, for the right to protect your ability to continue to enjoy hunting, rather than just hiking with a rifle...

sdk, you are I both need to take a english refresher class. Either I cant get my point across, or you cant read.

That being said, I agree with your post. I have seen the devastation to the elk population caused by wolves. Over 20 years I have hunted from Salmon ID to Wisdom MT and have seen the results. The elk that we used to see in Idaho are gone, completely gone. MT is not far behind. I have seen elk cows and calves killed around the big hole battlefield that were not eaten, only killed.

My comment about "get off the couch" was targeted at those people who think the wolves are not causing a problem. Here in the rocky mountains we have spent decades with elk conservation, only to have it wiped out in a matter of years.

What I have come to realize is that its not the introduction of wolves, its the people behind it. They do not care about conservation. Their purpose is to stop hunting.

You are 100% right!!!! The introduction of wolves was done to stop hunting as we know it. Just a damn shame !

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:

This whole mess could have been handled differently had the Feds limited the input concerning the re-introduction program to the states involved and the citizens of those states. People that were not going to be directly affected in any way should not have been allowed any input.

Exactly. When you allow people to give their input based solely upon emotions, it isn't a good thing. Some wolf lover in New York will never be affected by the wolves presence here in Idaho, yet their emotions are heard by all through the media.

It's not right.

quote:

Originally posted by Jon Beutler:

My comment about "get off the couch" was targeted at those people who think the wolves are not causing a problem. Here in the rocky mountains we have spent decades with elk conservation, only to have it wiped out in a matter of years.

What I have come to realize is that its not the introduction of wolves, its the people behind it. They do not care about conservation. Their purpose is to stop hunting.

You and I agree 100% then. Glad to hear that. I always thought my reading comprehension was fairly good, but it has failed me in this instance.

It comes from debating with other sportsmen from other states that do not have this problem, who want to know why we are fussing so much over wolves. It's disheartening to listen to sportsmen support anti's, simply because they think we are uneducated, low-brow, blood-thirsty hunters that just want to kill, kill, kill.

This isn't the case. We've seen the killing (the decimation of the ungulate populations in our states) and we want it to stop.

quote:

It's not right.

That is one point we can definitely agree upon.

If you do not live in the area and are not going to be directly affected in any manner, your opinion does not matter and will not be taken into consideration.

yep, that's bunny/wolf huggers for you.
They figured with all the large predators, hunting will stop.
It is actually their agenda and they say it out loud.
But I also agree with other comments, that wolf numbers will go only up to the point .
Sky will not fall on elk and deer.
Still plenty of them out there.
Just got back from elk hunt in Bitterroot and every cow had calf and saw plenty of them.
Also reports from several of my friends in Big Hole said plenty of elk
Ultimately we will all live to see another day of elk hunting ( and wolf )

"Well, we need to start talking to them. Not the in your face tactics espoused by some but we mustn't ever forget these cliff dwellers vote regardless of how ill informed they are"

They (PETA) will not listen. They must be fought. The non, uninformed people who neither like nor dis-like hunting are the ones to persuade. They are the vast majority of the population.

We have been battling wolf intruduction into Utah years. Regardless of what the Bunny Huggers say, they have moved into Utah and there are confirmed livestock kills.

The wolf introduction was built on broken promises and lies. Their agenda is to continue to grow wolf populations and spread them as fast an far as possible. They are literally destroying elk and moose herds in Yellowstone and the surrounding areas.

Its important that we vote for, support, and educate ploitical leaders of our cause.

The last resident wolves of my county, in Utah were killed in 1925. The received a $50 bounty for each wolf. There was little to no money back in those days and based on the $50 bounty, it is easy to see how much they liked them.

I do not beleive in wolf management in the lower 48. I believe in wolf removal in the lower 48. As far as I am concerned, they DO NOT belong here!

There is a youtube video of a bunch of wolves ganging up on a starving coyote and killing it. There are documented cases of wolves killing for sport, or maybe instruction for the young, in any case the elk were left to rot.
Many people simply are uneducated about this kind of animal behavior. The whole "natural balance" thing is B.S. Animals are just animals. They increase their numbers until their environment can't support them then they die off of starvation related complications.
They are not good or bad. They just are. We can ignore them or help manage them.

In my own neo-pangan belief system, it is the place of man to use his tools and brain to help the earth. And part of that is shooting some wolves so they don't wreck the whole system. Tell that to the hippies.

Incidentally, I haven't seen any foxes around here in a year, but I am seeing coyotes now. I can guess where the foxes went.