Has anyone heard of a ranch/outfitter in Colorado called the Elk Research Institute? It is a 1,500 acre ranch. Straight from their website:

"ERI is a nonprofit 501(c)3 organization, dedicated to finding a solution to Chronic Wasting Disease (CWD)."

and.....

"Harvest hunts are $850 for cows and begin at $2900 for 4x4 to 6x6 two-year-old bulls. Each year there are a limited number of bulls available in all age groups. We ask for donations of $1000 for each year the bull is past two years of age up to six years old to help us offset the costs associated with maintaining the animals. In addition, a few of the older herd bulls are harvested each year as they become more susceptible to winter kill. Please contact us regarding pricing, availability, and possible tax advantages.

It's hard to know exactly how "wild" or "tame" some of the elk would be on this property but it seems to be a very interesting place. Does anyone have any info on it?

Never heard of them. My first thought is that $850 for a meat cow elk is outrageous, but maybe that's just me.

...1500 acres...

Uh-oh, here we go...

Livestock. Nothing more. Nothing less.

Why would you want to go to a state like Colorado and hunt on what is basically a zoo. There are millions of acres of public land there that you can hunt for the price of a license.

Thanks for the input MAC.....I think we all know your stance on the subject. You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but respectfully.....I did not ask for it. I simply asked if anyone has any information on this place.

Thank you.

quote:

Originally posted by Eland Slayer:

It's hard to know exactly how "wild" or "tame" some of the elk would be on this property but it seems to be a very interesting place.

I think it is rather easy to know how "tame" an elk herd is that lives in a 1500 acre trap for research purposes would be.

Not against high fences like some around here, just really don't think the description lends itself to anything other then fairly tame elk.

As far as the property goes or their program, no I have never heard of them.

quote:

Originally posted by Sevenxbjt:

quote:

Originally posted by Eland Slayer:

It's hard to know exactly how "wild" or "tame" some of the elk would be on this property but it seems to be a very interesting place.

I think it is rather easy to know how "tame" an elk herd is that lives in a 1500 acre trap for research purposes would be.

Not against high fences like some around here, just really don't think the description lends itself to anything other then fairly tame elk.

As far as the property goes or their program, no I have never heard of them.

One might think so.....however, I used to work on a ranch that had an 1800 acre section fenced off with around 100 Elk in it. They were not "tame" in any way, shape, or form.....far from it. You could not get anywhere close to them in a vehicle, and most definitely not on foot without being very cautious.

quote:

Originally posted by Eland Slayer:
Thanks for the input MAC.....I think we all know your stance on the subject. You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but respectfully.....I did not ask for it. I simply asked if anyone has any information on this place.

Thank you.

Ok Youngster, fair enough. You want info. Got the following right off their website:

quote:

The preserve is 2.25 square miles of pristine CWD free elk habitat.
No license required
Rifle / Muzzleloader / Archery
Harvested animals are field dressed and loaded into your vehicle
Meat processing, caping, and taxidermy can be arranged

If there is no license required in Colorado then it means this is a captive herd. In other words, these are not game animals. They are livestock. PERIOD.

What I'd like to know is why you would want to travel from TX to CO to shoot what is basically a cow. You can shoot the same thing in TX and save the travel. TX is full of game farms with elk that bear the offical classification of livestock.

Or you could do the old fashioned thing and buy a license and hunt elk on open land without a fence. That is elk hunting. Taking an elk off this place is elk killing. It sure wouldn't be a hunt.

Have you ever actually tried to hunt big game anywhere there wasn't a fence. I know you've killed eland and oryx in TX and both of those are classified as livestock. Sorry but I just can't call that hunting. Maybe you can, but I cant.

I know you've shot deer off of fenced ranches because you've posted about them. But have you ever hunted what can be called public ground for animals that are not contained by a fence?

Or would that be to hard for you?

quote:

Originally posted by Flags:

quote:

Originally posted by Eland Slayer:
Thanks for the input MAC.....I think we all know your stance on the subject. You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but respectfully.....I did not ask for it. I simply asked if anyone has any information on this place.

Thank you.

Ok Youngster, fair enough. You want info. Got the following right off their website:

quote:

The preserve is 2.25 square miles of pristine CWD free elk habitat.
No license required
Rifle / Muzzleloader / Archery
Harvested animals are field dressed and loaded into your vehicle
Meat processing, caping, and taxidermy can be arranged

If there is no license required in Colorado then it means this is a captive herd. In other words, these are not game animals. They are livestock. PERIOD.

What I'd like to know is why you would want to travel from TX to CO to shoot what is basically a cow. You can shoot the same thing in TX and save the travel. TX is full of game farms with elk that bear the offical classification of livestock.

Or you could do the old fashioned thing and buy a license and hunt elk on open land without a fence. That is elk hunting. Taking an elk off this place is elk killing. It sure wouldn't be a hunt.

Have you ever actually tried to hunt big game anywhere there wasn't a fence. I know you've killed eland and oryx in TX and both of those are classified as livestock. Sorry but I just can't call that hunting. Maybe you can, but I cant.

I know you've shot deer off of fenced ranches because you've posted about them. But have you ever hunted what can be called public ground for animals that are not contained by a fence?

Or would that be to hard for you?

For the love of God.....all I asked for was INFO about the place. I never said I was the least bit interested in hunting there. I was simply interested in the fact that they are a non-profit 501(c)3 organization.....but also sell hunts to the public.

I don't care about the place being fenced, unfenced, livestock, game animals, etc.....just the operation of the company. Maybe I should have specified that. I apologize.

As far as your claim that I've shot deer off fenced ranches.....you are 100% INCORRECT sir!! I have shot Eland, Bison, Oryx, Axis, Blackbuck, and pigs on fenced ranches in Texas but never a single whitetail deer. If you can show me a single post where I stated that.....I will gladly pucker up and kiss you where the sun don't shine. I have, however, bowhunted for whitetail (unsuccessfully) on a fenced property.....but I never killed one.

To the rest of you who might be reading this......I apologize for Flags (aka MAC) going off-topic and being what I consider to be very rude. He has a track record of extreme hatred for the hunting industry in the Lone Star State.

Anyone who may have FACTUAL information on this facility, please share.

Thank you.

And by the way MAC.....no I do not hunt public land in Texas, nor will I ever do so. For 2 simple reasons:

1. The areas are horribly over-hunted and mismanaged.

2. The areas are literally dangerous, due to the number of hunters and lack of safety procedures used.

Put on your big boy pants, Junior.

First off, when you post the trophy fees and ask how "tame" the animals are, it automatically implies you are interested in the hunting.

Second, when I took a look at the website for the "Institute" it became immediately apparent that this has little to do with research and is instead a thinly disquised game ranch hiding behind the viel of respectability a reasearch facility garners.

I base that on the info on the website itself. They boast that they have bulls scoring up to 500 SCI points available for killing. Why would a research facility post potential trophy scores? And then there is the little blurb that in addition to the hunt fees they ask for a "donation" in the amount of $1000 for every year of life the bull has lived to offset the "cost of raising" the animal.

In Colorado, with very few exceptions, game ranches are illegal. It sure seems that by calling themselves a "research institute" they are attempting an end run around the law. And since there is no state issued license required, then this is a hunt for livestock because these animals do not enjoy game status.

Third, you really don't have any idea what I think about hunting in TX. Matter of fact I've hunted there several times. I enjoyed it. I have a lot of friends from there that I wouldnt hesitate to hunt with again. But you can not deny that a lot of the "hunting" there is for animals no longer considered game animals. TX itself labels a lot of these animals as livestock. Their word, not mine. If you have an issue with that, take it up with TX not me.

I'm the first to admit that the game ranching in TX has saved some species from extinction in the wild. Animals like the Blackbuck, Addaxx etc... no longer exist in the wild in numbers that support hunting. But when they begin to manipulate comman game like whitetails and elk for maximum antler growth etc... I begin to have problems with it. You may not agree. So be it.

There is a big difference between us. You have admitted several times that you have never hunted outside TX. I have hunted Colorado, Wyoming, Montana, Nebraska, Kansas, Texas, Arizona, California, Oregon, Hawaii, Florida, Alabama, Virginia, West Virginia, Pennsylvania and New Hampshire. So I base my thoughts on what I have seen nationwide and not what I have seen in a single state. Maybe you should branch out a little and see how things are done elsewhere. You may begin to understand why some people have issues with game ranching.

And did you not, in these very forums, post about how you and your family were considering buying some property and you were asking for estimates on the cost of game fencing it? Did you not once post here complaining about a Mtn Lion eating your deer and how the expense of fencing and feeding corn to the deer made them your's and you objected to a lion eating some of them. And yet you now claim you never shot a deer off a ranch with a fence. Sorry, I havre a hard time buying that based on some of the posts you've made in the past.

Remember fences dont have to be steel. When you put out artifical food sources, artifical water sources, mineral supplements etc... you have effectively fenced the animal. They no longer migrate or move like the naturally would. So in essence they are fenced. Are you really trying to tell me that all those places in TX with all that money wrapped up in the deer are simply letting them wander at will?

You asked for info. I gave you info based on the "institutes" website. You either could have found it yourself or didnt want the truth. This is no research facility. It's a game ranch complete with pre-measured animals and a sliding trophy fee system in place. Period.

MAC,

The comment made years ago regarding the mountain lion eating "our" deer was in somewhat bad taste.....I'll admit that. Nonetheless, it was on a completely FREE-RANGE, LOW-FENCED ranch in Mason, TX.

Yes, I have inquired about fencing costs. My family still has not purchased a ranch yet, but hopefully we will in the future. It is none of your business either way.

I will repeat this one last time.....and that is all for this thread: I have never shot a whitetail deer inside of a fenced property. If you are calling me a liar, then come out and say it.

You make it obvious that you are incapable of using tact and/or manners when you post something. So, on that note, I will not respond to anything else you write on this thread.

FYI, They have two websites.

www.cervid.com

www.westernelkhunting.com

Didn't they teach you how to read in college Junior. I flat out said that fences don't have to be made out of steel. They can be subjective by doing things to keep deer and other game from moving about naturally. If you put out food etc... you are effectively fencing the game.

And, you"re right. What you and your family do isn't any of my business. Frankly I don't give a damn what you do. I merely use your own words to show that you have no issue with fencing in game for the purpose of hunting.

But you asked for info on this farce of a game ranch and then get pissy when you don't like the info provided and, that's your problem not mine.

I don't know either one of you "gentlemen".

I have to say that Flags, since I don't know you, and can't recall ever talking with you on the AR forums, I don't really intend to offend you, and I'm unsure if this will or not...

However,

You seem to really have it out for the OP. You seem to have issues with him that, I gather from reading here, have or had nothing to do with this topic.

I do not understand your outright hatred for Eland Slayer, but to me, it's pretty obvious that it's there.

I also believe that you are going a bit over the top in showing your ass here.

Maybe you could take a deep breath and just move on to another topic that doesn't involve Eland Slayer?

If you have really gone and done all the things you say you have, then it must have taken quite a few years to do those things. That leads me to believe that you're probably older, and hopefully more mature than you're writing style is indicating. Does it really matter in your life if ES DOESN'T have as much experience as you do? Some things guys just have to experience and figure out for themselves. Maybe ES is on the path to doing that now?

How about you just give him some room to do that?

quote:

Originally posted by Slowpoke Slim:
I don't know either one of you "gentlemen".

I have to say that Flags, since I don't know you, and can't recall ever talking with you on the AR forums, I don't really intend to offend you, and I'm unsure if this will or not...

However,

You seem to really have it out for the OP. You seem to have issues with him that, I gather from reading here, have or had nothing to do with this topic.

I do not understand your outright hatred for Eland Slayer, but to me, it's pretty obvious that it's there.

I also believe that you are going a bit over the top in showing your ass here.

Maybe you could take a deep breath and just move on to another topic that doesn't involve Eland Slayer?

If you have really gone and done all the things you say you have, then it must have taken quite a few years to do those things. That leads me to believe that you're probably older, and hopefully more mature than you're writing style is indicating. Does it really matter in your life if ES DOESN'T have as much experience as you do? Some things guys just have to experience and figure out for themselves. Maybe ES is on the path to doing that now?

How about you just give him some room to do that?

If you read my signature line you'll see that I used to post as Mac. I've posted on these forums for over 11 years.

I have no issue with ES. But he asked for info on this place and I gave it to him. One thing about ES is that he readily admits that he has never hunted outside TX and seems to think that the way they hunt in TX is the way they hunt everywhere.

I firmly believe that game ranches and fenced hunting, whether the fences are steel or feeding stations, are degrading to hunting. Game should be allowed to roam as nature designed. Anything done to restrict their movements or encourage them not to move in a natural manner allows for abuse in the field.

Many do not agree with me. Thats fine. Its a free country and all are allowed to believe in the manner they see fit. But when I take a stance contrary to ES, he gets all pouty. Maybe he needs to grow up and realize there are differing opinions and ideas.

From the cervid.com site, it appears that they actually do research on elk and CWD. I have no problem with that. I also have no problem with them "selling" the animals as hunts. At some point in any research project of this type, the research usefulness of the subject is nill and why not try to recoup some of your cost instead of just letting the subject die and pay for disposal as well. It is a waste of money. At least they are not out requesting large amounts of my money through government grants.

And frankly Mac, ES didn't get pouty, you did when he pointed out your obvious bias against him and any sort of hunting you don't agree with.

Flags or Mac,

Everything you've posted on this thread is dead nuts true.

I've been around the block with ES on the subject before; it's just what he thinks is "hunting".

Shooting animals in pens and calling it hunting is PITIFUL AND PATHETIC. Like I've said before, it's like patronizing a whore house and thinking you're a chick magnet.

quote:

Originally posted by rcamuglia:
Flags or Mac,

Everything you've posted on this thread is dead nuts true.

I've been around the block with ES on the subject before; it's just what he thinks is "hunting".

Shooting animals in pens and calling it hunting is PITIFUL AND PATHETIC. Like I've said before, it's like patronizing a whore house and thinking you're a chick magnet.

Not your fight.

Perry

quote:

Originally posted by perry:
Not your fight.
Perry

Who asked you?

quote:

Originally posted by just-a-hunter:
Once again, we get it.... You are better. You obviously need to hear it so you can once again lift your nose high with pride.

Todd

Not about one person being "better" than another, just about some kind of twisted activity being called a "hunt".

If you think the choice between shooting farm-raised animals in an enclosure and a fair chase hunt say something about the kind of people who participate in the two, that's your call.

ES

I saw the same thing and was some what curious, for cureousity sake not purchasing a hunt. I would assume they are pretty used to humans so it is probably a shoot.

I would ignore the name calling and wait for others to reply with more info.


Perry

quote:

Originally posted by Eland Slayer:
Has anyone heard of a ranch/outfitter in Colorado called the Elk Research Institute? It is a 1,500 acre ranch. Straight from their website:

"ERI is a nonprofit 501(c)3 organization, dedicated to finding a solution to Chronic Wasting Disease (CWD)."

and.....

"Harvest hunts are $850 for cows and begin at $2900 for 4x4 to 6x6 two-year-old bulls. Each year there are a limited number of bulls available in all age groups. We ask for donations of $1000 for each year the bull is past two years of age up to six years old to help us offset the costs associated with maintaining the animals. In addition, a few of the older herd bulls are harvested each year as they become more susceptible to winter kill. Please contact us regarding pricing, availability, and possible tax advantages.

It's hard to know exactly how "wild" or "tame" some of the elk would be on this property but it seems to be a very interesting place. Does anyone have any info on it?

I don't know anything about it, and I kind of ignore this kind of operation in Colorado. To me it isn't any better then the wolf research center West of Divide. I have no dog in this fight if this is the way you choose to shoot an elk.

However, if you take a a big bull chances are you are going to pay close to $5-7000 for the bull plus tips, processing, lodging and fuel. For that kind of money you can spend 5-7 days in open range hunting elk with a pretty good chance of taking one as well. $850 is about the price of a trespass cow hunt on private land for a non resident as well. Just seems to me more value for my dollar.

1500 acres is pretty small, and I imagine that they have it cross fenced as well. If they got any kind of numbers of elk they are going to have to use rotational grazing to keep from destroying the property. There just isn't enough rain here to keep the grass and browse growing unless it is irrigated. Plus they will have to be supplemented in the winter with hay and protein since they will be restricted on their movement.

So that should give you an idea of how tame these elk are. I'd imagine they aren't any more afraid of humans than the average herd of cattle. You'll get a couple that will move out, but for the most part the will look at you and then put their head down and go back to eating.

who in the hell wants to shoot an elk used in CWD RESEARCH???? What kind of research does one do on elk that DON'T HAVE CWD?????

place dosen't pass the smell test...

quote:

Not about one person being "better" than another, just about some kind of twisted activity being called a "hunt".
If you think the choice between shooting farm-raised animals in an enclosure and a fair chase hunt say something about the kind of people who participate in the two, that's your call.

I'm not arguing anything with you.

I made some highlights in the post so maybe you could come to some kind of conscious understanding.

I know it's a stretch, but what the heck, I've got nothing better to do since O'bummer is on...

quote:

Originally posted by just-a-hunter:
You are right and I am wrong. Whatever you want me to admit to I will. I will also sincerly mean it. I can't read good. I'm stupid. I'm ugly. I'm far less at anything you need me to be less at.

Todd

Right On!!!

I finally won an argument!!!

Ya ta ta ta ta ta, ya ta ta ta ta ta, ya ta ta ta ta ta, yaaa ah unt.....!!!!

Hey Just-a....

How do you feel about the .223 and deer?

quote:

Originally posted by just-a-hunter:
.223?.... Just about perfect!

Todd

Alright, you really asked for it now!!!

I just booked two hunts for ES and myself.

Ray can we barrow your 6.5 grendel for the trip in case its a long shot?

Perry

Lots of Elk in Colorado and it is certainly a worthwhile hunt everyone who can should make at least once. As mentioned in several flavors 1500 acres tame herd is probably not the best bet for an elk hunting experience. If you have the money a horseback guided trip way back in the wilderness with a good guide is certainly the way to go.

If money or physical limitations keep you from that there are plenty of public land walk-in or even 4 wheeler ride around hunting that can be done with some success. Even when you come back empty handed there are some great times to be had......of course it is better dragging home a bunch of meat and some antlers. For about the price of the fenced hunt for a cow you can buy both a cow and bull tag and maybe fill them both.......of course you run the risk of tag soup but that is hunting.

quote:

Originally posted by taylorce1:
However, if you take a a big bull chances are you are going to pay close to $5-7000 for the bull plus tips, processing, lodging and fuel. For that kind of money you can spend 5-7 days in open range hunting elk with a pretty good chance of taking one as well. $850 is about the price of a trespass cow hunt on private land for a non resident as well. Just seems to me more value for my dollar.

What I should have said is for $5-7000 you can get a good guided hunt in a trophy bull area with guaranteed tags. This should get you a pretty reputable guide with a high percentage of bulls taken. Again IMO more value for my dollar.

quote:

Originally posted by perry:
I just booked two hunts for ES and myself.

Ray can we barrow your 6.5 grendel for the trip in case its a long shot?

Perry

quote:

Originally posted by specneeds:
......of course you run the risk of tag soup but that is hunting.

Not to some here...of course I wouldn't want to mention any names.

After reviewing both of the websites listed above, all I gotta say is that this is marketing genius!
Under the guise of CWD research you sell hunts on this little game farm! Instead of growing a bull to age 6 or 7 before harvest, you can reap the rewards of antler years 6, 7, 8, 9...and the bull continues to live and produce new horn for the next guy willing to pay thousands to fling a dart full of drugs! Heck, I bet some of these bigger bulls have made these guys hundreds of thousands of dollars. And it's all tax free, don't you recall, it is a nonprofit! Wonder what happens if you refuse to make a donation after your drugging? I highly doubt any meaningful CWD research goes on here, I mean, wouldn't a place that studies CWD have CWD animals on site to study? Wouldn't it be injecting the disease into test animals to see how these genetically predispositioned elk react to CWD in a natural environment?
Can't say this place would be for me, but you gotta had it to these folks for coming up with such a gigantic scam.

i know a guy who has hunted and killed a cow elk at this research place. he said his hunt was 2 or 3 years ago.

what questions do you want answered?