I searched through the threads and found lots of give and take over predator culling and those issues, but nothing on how to actually go about it.

This cat has been on this lease for at least three years. The small game population has become zilch at this point, and even the coyotes are gone. Now I have permission to get the cougar.

Last year I found his (or her? Or their?) tracks, and the pad print was as large as my palm, 3" wide and 4" long. I don't know how big that would make it, but I guess over 100lbs. That's just a wild guess, based on observations of cattle, hog and human tracks in the same area at the same time.

I don't have any dogs. Am I attempting the impossible? I'll have two other people with me, so extra ordnance is available. I have a trapper's license, maybe I should use a trap? If so, how and what kind?

Is baiting legal? If so that might be your best bet. Use a cow or horse carcas and be prepared to set another after that one is deecayed and gone.
Cats are scavengers and will come to the scent.

Good Luck
Greg

Interesting,

I had a lease near Mountain Home that had the same problem. The landowners HATED any predators (they raised sheep and cattle). There approach was to use an electric call at night. This was said to be legal because the cat was not considered a game animal and all that was requested was to notify TPWD of any kills. It didn't work this time. They resorted to those little cyanide gun poppers (call your local ag extension office and ask about, I believe they got a state employee to set them out). They never found a body, but no more prints. Kept the coyotes down too (more than I cared for since I like to see one now and again and would have liked to have shot a few).

I used to trap a little for recreation. I thought of the same thing. If you can catch a bobcat and a coyote, I don't see why a mountain lion isn't possible. I have never heard of it, but it seems doable. I would love to hear if it works. Would be fun otherwise. Wonder if a #3 would hold them? Snares seems like a good possibility if you can attract their attention to a site.

Nothing ever worked that well on hogs but a rifle (good for us, we were threatened if we didn't not shoot every hog we saw)! They caught a few in snares and a few young ones in those big live traps. I never forget the first time I saw the kill site of hogs eating one of those sheep.

I'll only be there for three days, and the locals might object to a horse or cow carcass, unless I brought my own

I don't know how I would trap it. I don't want to kill it just to get rid of it, I want the fur. But I don't think I can talk it into a trade of any kind, LOL!

I thought about a brush fire used to flush it out.

I'm going to go through the regs and find out what is legal, but I believe I only need to report sightings and/or kills, for record keeping by the state.

If I bait it, how close can I get without scaring it off? I need to stay within 100yds for a half-decent shot, 50 would be better. I've gained a lot of confidence with this pistol but I'm no Taffin, probably never will come close.

Scott if you are only going to be there for 3 days then calling or a chance sighting is going to be it. Lions have a HUGE home range and depending on what it calls home and the size of the ranch, it might be on that portion or it might be in the next county. I believe the home range is somewhere in the neighbor hood of 70 square miles but I am not sure of size the Texas cats range. The prime area might be centered around the area you are going to hunt but 3 days without dogs is going to be hit or miss!

Good Luck and remember to take pictures!
Greg

Lions have a pretty big home range, radio telemetry studies show between 80-200 sq. miles for males and half that for females. What that means is that unless the property is huge it's probably only coming through it periodically. Which makes it kinda tough to narrow down where you'll find it.
I would study the property really well and identify the areas where it might lay up during the day. Then map out a route for yourself to walk and make stands calling into those areas. If you look at telemetry data you'll see certain habitat features being used to lay up in. Out here it's brushy areas or rockpiles on or below ridgelines. Same as for bobcats. I know they've done a lot of lion surveys in Texas over the last 20 years so you should look up those studies and start familiarizing yourself with the findings or commonalities.
Then go on TerraServer and look at aerial photos of the property and surrounding lands and see what you see. I love this stuff because you can see terrain features you can't from the ground. You should be able to find the travel corridors it might use and the cover it might lay up in. It should give you a good idea as to how to approach this.
I've called in lions incidentally while calling other predators and while hooting spotted owls at night in the timber. When I call I work a circuit, making a lot of stands and call into those locations, seems to work. I use a Critr'Call because I can vary the sounds and volume a lot. I would think a fawn bleat or perhaps a sound like a young goat would work. Goat might be really effective because I've seen figures on livestock depredation by lions in Texas and goats are a favorite.
And be persistent, the more you go the better your chances it'll be on the property. And the liklihood is theres more than one using the property. Female lion home ranges are smaller and overlap, where males don't. But a females home range can be within a males.
I'll look in my files and see if I still have any Texas studies when I have time.

Cool, thanks!

I know the area pretty well. And I have a pretty good idea where it hides, based on tracks and some other things. The idea about the goat is great! I could probably get a little goat somewhere, and stake it out. This is a deer lease, so plenty of stands.

I just don't really want to go crawling through the brush, there are bugs and snakes and things

You don't need to stake a goat out, just go listen to them and emulate that sound. I was thinking about that and remembering the bleating they do when they're startled or getting chased by a grouchy little border collie. Staking one out would be a hassle and I'd say a lot less effective than being mobile and calling. More likely you'll call in some Mexican guys with a grill.
You guys are always looking for the silver bullet that'll make things easier, when really most of it requires thoughtfulness, educating yourself and keeping at it.
Bugs and snakes and things indeed, I'd say toughen up there sissyboy. No wonder the Dallas Cowboys have fallen off so badly over the last decade, must be something in the water. I used to love them, now I feel embarrased to even watch.

CritrChik,
I know you bear hunt but what is the cat season like in your neck of the woods(or Enchanted Forest )

Have you done a buch of calling for cats or just varmits?

Thanks
Greg

Famous Amos,
I've called specifically for lions many times and usually get bobcats, coyotes, grey fox, etc. in. Funny because when I've had lions come in I was calling the other varmints and a couple times while doing owl surveys. There is no taking of lions allowed in CA, which is where I've always seen them. I have never had one respond in NV, but I spend a lot more time in CA. A lot of that has to do with the areas I call and for what, good coyote areas are not in the best lion habitat which was what most of my calling in NV has been for.
Conversely good bobcat and grey fox areas in CA are also superb lion habitat. But we can't take lions, in fact the law does not allow me to bring a lion legally taken in another state back to CA. Not much incentive on my part to take an animal that I can't mount or utilize in any way. Sucks, huh. Because I'd go spend time in AZ just to call in and take a lion.
My degree is in wildlife and lions were a huge issue when I was in college, so I've researched them pretty thoroughly. And I grew up in lion country hunting and trapping with my dad. So I've been around these guys for a while.

The cat you describe is not a big cat and probably weighs closer to 70 lbs, probably a female or big male cub....You cannot bait a southern cat, they don't go for it...Your best bet is dogs...or the most sure way is to trap it....You might get real lucky and get a shot with a preditor call muffled on a pillow (casette) and a red light, but only if the cat is in the neighborhood.

Remember a Southern cat will make roughly a 125 mile circle every 8 to 10 days and kill a deer every 3rd day as a rule..He will break the neck with his paw and eat the rumen ( cat salad ) eat some hindquarter and lick a lot of blood, then cover the kill and will not return to that kill, he has no need to...If a female has cubs then she will stay in a 5 mile area until the cubs are mostly grown. She will pick a spot with a world of deer and move as the herd moves out...When the female with cubs has been in an area for awhile, you will notice a definate decline in the deer population as they tend to move out..

He will travel on low ground and in sandy arroyos..When you find his tracks, then you can cut brush to a V to the tracks, leaving a two foot openning, and set a series of 5 or 6 traps with drags, never stake them.. He will walk through the V within 10 days, 99 times out of 100...Of course this is strictly preditor control..no season in Texas he is a varmint.

I was raised in the Big Bend of Texas and my dad was recognized world wide as an expert on Lion behavior...I picked up a little of what he knew. He and my Uncle Al were famous Lion and Bear trappers, especially Al, he would travel all over the USA picking up offered bounty on Lions that had evaded everybody else...He'd "take them with cream or put em in a jar" Never figured exactly what that ment.

This has been fascinating!

I think taking this one might be a matter of blind luck and correct alignment of the solar axis, because the area I'm limited to is tiny compared to the potential range.

Critrchk, Smoked Cabritos was a percieved benefit in the goat strategy

Ray, 70lbs? That sounds plenty reasonable. I may have been off by double or more. I was just trying to imagin how big a dog would be to make that kind of a print, allowing for bigger feet on a cat.

BUT,

This is in Lexington. My breeder is in Cameron, near there. He has hunted the area for many years, and insists that what I saw was a Mexican black panther. From what I gathered, he is referring to Felis yagouaroundi. But he claims they are a lot more common than people realize, and that they get pretty large. Info I found so far puts them at about 23lbs max, so I don't know. Maybe a 9th and yet unclassified subspecies? He is adamant that any large cats (larger than a bobcat, which isn't small) are these "Mexican Black Panthers". All I know is I saw some huge looking (to me) cat tracks (one heel and three toe pads)

If so, I don't think I'll be taking one. Although supposedly a game warden there shot one recently. But they can get away with it. But it would make a beautiful fur.

Ray,

Putting your dads wisdom aside for one moment, have you ever actually tried hunting cougars African/Indian style over bait, live or other wise? I am just curious as you have obviously expirienced both styles of hunting.

Critrchik,

Do you know if modern telemetry studies support the old timers idea that a cougar never or rarely returns to a kill?

Scott B,

Personally, I would be staking out and sitting over a goat or two, just for the hell of it! :-)
A few months ago I had a call from a farmer about a fox which was taking ducks off the farm yard. I susepct this fox had been hunted before as it was pretty wary. I eventually got it by places a duck in a small wire cage and watching it from a hayloft. It was unbelievable they way charlie hit the cage! Anyway, charlie had his eating habits modified with a .223 and the duck was returned slightly ruffled to the main pen..it did crap on me as i took it out the cage though!
Take a look at:
http://www.anglebooks.com/books/safari.html

In particular I can recommend any of Kennith Andersons books..
THE KENNETH ANDERSON OMNIBUS: VOL I and Vol 2 are a must for any one interested in hunting big cats..

Regards,

Peter

Scott,
Mexican Black Panthers is just bunk, don't go for that, talk to your local game dept....Thats an old East Texas diddy

Pete,
Yes, I have tried to bait Lions and it will not work IMO....Keep in mind that this Lion is obviously not killing domestic livestock or the locals would be screaming to the high heavens...In all probability the deer population and the abundance of hogs is keeping this feline full and happy...just a guess as that area has a lot of both in some places.....

In 1972 Joe Brown, Sanderson, Texas and I had a sum total of 102 Lion skins in his freezer, mostly his but about 30 were mine, from my Rosillas Mt. Ranch near Marathon..A years take in that area...

I would further venture that in the Pacific Northwest that a Lion will most always return to a kill, as they are subjected to winter feeding grounds and their territory is much smaller than a Texas or Arizona Lion...the get reall hungry in the winter....not the case in the warm south...In the Northern states the Lions are twice as big and have a beatiful coat..Southern Lions look like Alley cats..The largest Lion I have ever killed went 160 lbs., A friend of mine in Marathon shot a 175 lb. Lion....A Idaho Lion may conceivably go 300 lbs. plus...

Several things of interrest in Lion habits is the fact that Lions kill the weak and poor, Well thats pure BS, they kill the best of the herd, they are a better carcass judge than any human...and they can kill any size buck...Lions kill bucks mostly during the rut and they kill some real monsters...The smell of a rutting buck will carry for miles and that brings the cat to his milk...he is off and at'em. They kill by biting the back of the neck and reaching forward with the paw and snapping it..

Hope this helps someone get their cat.

Ray, you're just full of information! Tell us some cougar stories, surely you have some?

Do tell, do tell!
Surely at least 1 of the above posts 30 cats was somrthing special

ScottB, you are reffering to the jagurundi(sp) in the picture, a small distinct species of cat maybe ocelot sized. They are dark and are sometimes referred to as an otter cat as they have that physic somewhat and are always found near water which they love like an otter. They are rare and probably protected and generally found in Mexico and south. Texas is the only state with a viable(actually large) population of mtn. lions in which they have no protection whatsoever. Call Parks and Wildlife for more information as to how to catch your lion. For research purposes they also want to know if you are successful.

Ray,

East Texas diddy, huh? I can't believe those good people would tell a tall tale However, it seems there are some documented sightings of jaguarundi outside of the known habitat, as well as others. But only 15-20 lbs at most. I believe one came from McClellan county, just north of that area. I think that was over 20 years ago though.

This is some kind of big cat. I don't know what kind, but a 70lb cougar sounds reasonable enough from the tracks.

I don't even know if I'm going to get to go now. But I can dream, right?

Scot,

How big is the property you are talking about?

Peter