What are the reasons behind wounding (or bad shots in general)? This question is mainly directed to you guides and professionals out there: You have seen many different hunters shooting good and bad shots. Would you say there are any common characteristics between those who kill and between those who fail? We all read about the need to practice shooting all the time and I say nothing against that, but is it really the only remedy for bad shots? Being a psychologist, I am very interested in the motivation to hunt and this question is trigged by that more general interest. So why, in your experience, do hunters shoot bad shots?

Now I understand that you might hesitate to post anything negative about clients and customers here, even if they can not be identified from your post. If you feel that you have information you want to share but hesitate to post in public, please send me a PM here or send a mail to: martin@psychology.se. I will of course guarantee your anonymity in that case.

Regards,
Martin

[also cross-posted in African Big Game Hunting]

1. The same reasons football kickers miss 25 yard field goals with one second on the clock to win the super bowl.

2. Lack of skill/practice
3. Over confidence in their rifle... Resulting in long shots, or shots through cover, or shots at non lethal body parts.
4. Acts of God.

I'm not a guide but if time spent watching others at the range - especially during our gun club's "public deer rifle sight-in days" - is any indication the causes of poor field marksmanship include:
1) Lack of practice
2) Shooting too much gun
3) Taking shots at game from positions not practiced at the range
4) Not knowing one's limitations
5) And I can't prove it but I suspect poor triggers - the effects of which are minimized when shooting over bags at the bench - magnify factors 1-4 in the field
$0.02

I would also submit that impatience is a factor. A lot of people let "buck fever" kick in and just don't take the time to set themselves up for a good shot. Field conditions are never as ideal as those at the range, plus there's always that rush of adrenaline to the system. How many times have you been able to sit at a bench with a perfectly steady rest while hunting? That's why it's so important to know your weapon and your limitations when in the field. We need to be willing to take our time, get closer if needed, and NOT take the shot if it's not comfortable!!! Taking a little time to set up a high percentage shot can save you a lot of time and your quarry a lot of suffering in the long run.

I responded to the same thread on the African forum.

Anyone can catch a touch of buck fever now and then, even the very experienced. Or the *!##&! woodchuck that's cleaning out your vegetable garden gets the adrenaline flowing and the hands shaking. Mostly it's plain old lack of practice and poor familiarity with the rifle. Too many think they can make a box of twenty rounds last them four or five years.

Impatience! Poor shot placement!

Certainly I agree 100% with the above comments.

This year, unfortunately, I had the bad experience of wounding not one, not two, but three deer (even a 4th, as it was shot mostly behind the diaphram, but died within 200 yards because the liver was toast).

The most aggregious of them all was the last one--you'd have thunk I'd have learnt my lesson by then! Four poorly shot deer in one season. Four, when the prior 30ish deer I've shot were--all but one--cleanly killed. Why?

The only thing I can think of is my experience from the prior season. I shot two or three deer in 2004 and absolutely destroyed the shoulders on all of them, ruining a lot of meat.

At that point, I switched bullets (formerly using a B-tip) to a less frangible pill.

And perhaps I also switched off in my head too...not wanting to shoot into the shoulder but behind it. Problem was, I shot too far behind it, on every shot--at 30 yards and at 130 yards.

None of those shots was tough; I was well situated and calm for them--even for the big boy (how strange is that?).

In the end, I think it was the mental game.

From now on, my mantra is "Break the shoulder, break the shoulder, break the shoulder."

Thus saith the LORD!

friar

quote:

Originally posted by Marterius:
What are the reasons behind wounding (or bad shots in general)? ...

Hey Marterius, I agree with everything I've seen in your thread so far.

I'd include not knowing the actual anatomy of the Game Animal. I was fortunate to take a lot of youg hunters afield for their very first hunts.

One of the things that helped them a lot was an Archery Target which shows the skeletal and internal organ positions. Once they knew where they needed to hit, their success rate soared.

Also had a couple of Decoys and an old arrow to show them the prefered angles the bullet should enter.

Also agree that selecting the "Wrong Bullet" can end up with a lot of wounded game that just need not happen. Standard Grade bullets still kill just fine if the correct Weight and shot placement is used.

A) Inexperience.

B) See reason A.

I dont think there is a hunter alive who has any kind of natural love for the sport that hasnt felt the adrenalin kick when they sense their efforts are about to pay off. I believe that the experienced hunter not only gets better at hitting the mark when this occurs, but also learns to reckognize this phenomena and resist the urge to act hastily, or "over-react".

IMO matching the bullet, game and chambering is also a big reason. Or rather, the lack thereof.

Also way too many guys with guns thesedays that place HUGE amounts of faith in their equipment and act as if they have an M1A1 computer controlled target aquisition system built into their wonderrifle, shooting skill is a much neglected aspect of the sport today.

quote:

Reasons behind wounding?

People who think like this! When there is lead in the air, there is hope in my heart -- MWH

Tell me why I missed a head shot on a hog at 150 yds last trip with my .22-250 that shoots 3/4" groups and 30 minutes later missed a coyote at 250 yds. I was convinced the rifle was off, and when I went to the range--it was, about 1/4" left at 100 yds.

My answer--I simply blew two shots in a row.

Some good reasons above. I'm not a guide but...

Well crap...I completely missed a doe this year. I couldn't believe that I had missed but saw her later that day with her fawn. She had a certain characteristic about her ears and I recognized her. I think I shot over her. Here's what I think went wrong.

Hunting with a new rifle and the trigger was OK but not quite light enough for me. (I've since adjusted that). Also not enough practice with the new rifle. But mainly,... I try to reload fast after my first shot but this time I was thinking about reloading and not following through with the shot. I'm pretty sure I just dropped the butt of the rifle down a bit too soon instead of following through with the shot. Just missed her clean.....

Well I will attempt to answer your question with an explanation of how I do things to insure that I am as successful as I can be. For the record I am not a "Guide" ( my brother is) but I have guided many people to an animal and talked them through it for the fun of it not as a profession. I am 44 years old and have taken a lot of game.
First off I think lack of confidence not overconfidence is a huge factor, here are a few things that boost my confidence.
Most of my hunting rifles are set up the same, I favor Win M70's and Leupold 3-9 scopes for "my" rifles this way each time I pick up one of my rifles the action, safety, scope, fit, and feel are all very similar if not the same. I become very familiar with my rifle to the point where I could load, unload, adjust the scope power, on and off with the safety without ever looking at it. I practice shouldering the gun dry firing and working the bolt as if I were shooting at game. In the feild I carry my rifles scope set on the lowest power, my dad always said if they are close you won't have time to turn it down, if they are far away you will always have time to turn the scope up to a higher power. I also shoot my gun from the bench a lot to have absolute confidence in the gun knowing the gun is absolutely dead on and capable of shooting exactly where I want it to. Then I shoot it in 3 shot groups fairly rapid to approximate hunting shots to insure that I won't get stringing of shots and it helps me with quick target acquisition practice. Then I also shoot from my favorite field position (sitting, using knees, elbows and sling) I also practice with a prone position shooting over my backpack. I even full length re-size all of my hunting ammo to insure that in a crunch I will never have a round that is sticky or hard to chamber when I need the speed most, I also run each and every loaded round through my gun to insure it is a good fit.When I have done all this I know that the gun is without any doubt as ready as it can be and I will never doubt my gun/scope/load.
My regimen goes even deeper than this to the studying of maps, scouting and physical fitness as well as checking all my other equipment so nothing should fail (packs, bino's, to name a few) At this point my "gear" is as ready as it can be so when I finally put myself in a position to have a chance to harvest an animal the last thing I'm thinking of is exactly where I am going to hit it with my bullet and where it will exit. No doubting no questions only pure confidence in my equipment and abilities. This is much better than just before you pull the trigger having some lingering doubt like "I hope I can hit him from here" or "I hope my scope is still on from last season" or some other "doubt" or negative thought creeping into your mind to spoil the shot. If you are afraid you will miss, you "will" miss. If you are afraid you can't shoot between those two trees without hitting one, you "will" hit one. If you "know" you will kill the biggest Bull of your life when you drop the hammer on him then you "will" kill him.

Please remember this stuff only counts if it is at ranges and under conditions you have practiced and perfected your abilities at, hail Mary's are for beginners and there are no percentages in getting lucky.

I'm kind of an adrenalin junky...it seems to absolutely focus me. I don't get the shakes from it - I relish it! If I ever quit getting the rush when it's almost time to pull the trigger, then I'll quit hunting! Kinda off topic. Sorry Marterius.

Also, I shoot single set triggers or triggers set at 2 lbs and DO NOT pull the trigger until everything is right. I practice from field positions year round and know exactly what's going to happen when the hammer falls. I don't shoot game at over 250 yards...getting closer is great fun! Average shot is 80 yards. I'd rather go home empty handed than wound an animal! I did that once nearly 30 years ago and it still haunts me.

I am not a guide or PH, but have hunted a lot and shoot a lot. The one reason for wounding or misses I don't see above is trigger follow through or control. If you dry fire or shoot at the range without feeling your trigger come all the way back till it stops you will have probably flinched, lifted your head, or some other physical error that will throw the shot off course. Light triggers often avoid or reduce this problem, but not completely.

Hey Slim,I agree on the light trigger thing.I hunted with a double set for years and the shot went through faster than with a factory set trigger.Cut the time for things to go wrong by half.

There is allot of factors that other people have mentioned.
It happens to everybody!
Lot's of friends & clients pack away there guns & bows & they admit they never touch them till the next years hunting trip.
I have seen the best shots at targets miss every time or wound when in a hunting situation.
I have also watched folks get nervous & not able to get good groups on paper. But give them a chance in the field they are as "cool as the other side of the pillow" & they get it done every time?!?!
Nerves , anxiety or buck fever what ever U want to call it & lack of practice & knowing your weapon of choice is the biggest problems in my opinion

www.mckenzieoutfitters.ca

I know I'll get burned for this, but I'm beginning to think that the reason for poor hunting and shot placement skills are from both the internet and "premium" bullets. The net is a great source of info, but it still can't compare with real world experience and practice. People will come to forums like this, read through the posts and are all of a sudden experts.

The problem with premium bullets and for that matter supermagnum rifles is that people think that they can do less than perfect and still be ok. This kind of goes back to the 'net. When was the last time you were at the bar listening to oldtimers talk about their 338 mags with 250gr TSX's? Probably never, but those guys have probably killed more animals than most will see in a lifetime.

Bottom line is poor shooting skills and maybe overconfidence that your equipment will cover for you.

Thanks a lot for your inputs! I am sorry I have not been commenting before but I have been a bit tight on time. I have printed the thread now and will read it tonight!

Regards,
Martin

Some of you have touched on some of the contributing factors. I would venture a guess that the majority of bad shots come from not paying attention to marksmanship fundamentals. At the range and target shooting in general, I think most of us can call our shots. We know roughly where the bullet will impact when the gun goes boom. In hunting situations we often rush our shots, buck fever or impatience gets the better of us. I shot at and missed an SCI blacktail at a range of about 250 yards several years ago. I knew my gun and load well enough to know I was taking a dead on hold shot. After the miss the buck just stood there (as blactails unaffected by a shot seem to regularly do.) I talked myself into a calm. Took a good seated rest. Breathing properly, crosshairs as steady as possible, squeeze, squeeze, squeeze, boom. Groceries and an SCI blacktail in velvet mount. With every shot I concentrated on keeping the crosshairs on the target until the gun went boom, I have succeeded. Fundamentals! It's shots after which the gun went boom that I could not recall where the crosshairs were, that I have either missed or had bad shot placement.

quote:

When was the last time you were at the bar listening to oldtimers talk about their 338 mags with 250gr TSX's? Probably never, but those guys have probably killed more animals than most will see in a lifetime.

Probably wounded a hell of a lot more too. I don't buy into the holy oldtimer thought. There were just as many poor shots on average 50 years ago as there are today. Better equipment and better bullets today are a benefit not a liability. They don't make up for poor marksmanship but they make a good marksman even more effective.

Jeff

There is a young high school kid where I hunt that has yet to take home a deer in the 4 years I have been there.

He is a great shot on the range. Can hit the targets standing, siting, bench, no problem. But when he sees a deer, he gets so excited that he twitches all over the place.

My buddy and I have been trying to couch him, and he is getting better. Just needs to calm down and imagine that it is just a brown target.

There are many reasons for wounding a game animal.
1 shot to fast
2 shot to slow critter move when aiming.
3 hit a limb
4 took a shot you should not have.
5 lack of paractice
6 a gust of wind as you touch one off ect ect ect.

If one is so worried about wounding a game animal one should not be shooting at them. Because some times things out of you control happens.

If you never wounded a animal good for you. But All it takes is the critter to move at the last once of trigger pull and bang you gut shoot it it stead of double lung it. Or bang the unseen limb sends you bullet into the guts ect ect.

If one hunts long enough shoots at enough critters it is going to happen.

If I count bird hunting in the mix I have wounded hundreds of them. That what they make dogs for. Lots are birds are still alive when you or the dogs get to them. Were the wounded yea they were not dead until one rung their necks.

I do not like wounding stuff and I have spent many hrs helping look for wounded game. But it is all part of hunting.

Not a Guide but here are some second hand, third hand comments from guides about their clients.

"Hunters who are golfers are better at estimating distance to game than non-golfers."

"Eastern (USA) hunters who do a lot of long range woodchuck shooting are generally cool and good shots on big game when they get the chance."

"Hunters who show up in camp with a new rifle they bought for the hunt, don't generally shoot it as well as the fellow who brings along the same rifle he uses at home to hunt deer."

(same like above with emphasis of "...new BIG MAGNUM rifle..."

My own general thoughts are that people on guided hunts have limited time and limited opportunities so take "chances" while shooting they wouldn't normally take. The time. distance traveled, $ payed for a guided hunt all put pressure to take an animal and so to take a shot they maybe shouldn't take.

Robin

The worst set of circumstances reguarding wounding animals that I have seen by far are due to people who who simply dont care. All other reasons are somewhat tolerable, that one is not IMO.

quote:

Originally posted by Wstrnhuntr:
The worst set of circumstances reguarding wounding animals that I have seen by far are due to people who who simply dont care. All other reasons are somewhat tolerable, that one is not IMO.

Good post. I have seen the same thing. I wounded the first deer I ever shot, and was not able to find him. That still bothers me to this day and it happened 23 years ago.

One of the members on a hunting lease I was on a few years ago who wounded three deer in one season, and did not seem at all concerned about it.

If I were to choose three general topics of reasons they would be: Lack of practice with weapon (Not only target practice but also field practice.) Poor woodsmanship (Such as a lack of hunting skills and knowledge of game animals.) Ethical lapses (As in taking a 600 yd. shot at an elk on the last day of your hunt because you don't want to go home empty handed...)
There is also a forth area, bad luck, an unseen twig, unexpected failure of a bullet, that sort of thing. Admitedly, if the first 3 areas are taken care of #4 seems to be less likely, but...