$70,000 Scam involving Blair Worldwide Hunting.

05 November 2022, 16:05

505 gibbs

Well, since you all are determined to keep the body up front, let’s freshen it up a bit. I never followed this thread but jus read Drummond’s link to Blair’s explanation, so a couple of questions:
1) I am not asking if you agree with Blair’s position, rather if you agree with the facts that he presents in his explanation? Client paid him, he sent money-commission to outfitter, outfitter did t perform hunt

2) do you feel Blair owes client the money he kept (commission) or the entire amount client sent him?

3) would this position apply to all booking agents on future hunts?

3) would love to see some booking agents position on this

4) do you feel clients have a responsibility to pay to insure against this type occurance? If so, does that change the responsibility in any of this?

05 November 2022, 20:05

Bull Sprig

Why bother paying an agent if he doesn't insure you get what you paid for? Don't agents carry insurance for just this type of thing?

05 November 2022, 22:09

Omnivorous_Bob

quote:
Originally posted by 505 gibbs:
2) do you feel Blair owes client the money he kept (commission) or the entire amount client sent him?

I don't FEEL anything, but i KNOW that if I paid an agent for a product I expect exactly that product to be delivered, period. If I went to my local Chevy agent and wrote a $70k check for a new truck, and they said, hey, I kept $20k for our commission and forwarded the rest to GM, and THEY screwed you, tough luck, no truck, but there is nothing I can do as both a Chevy dealer/agent and the guy who both took your money and promised in writing to deliver you a specific product, you're gonna have to take that up with them, I'd be a bit pissed. Who on this planet would not?!? It is simply indefensible.

And to be clear, as in the example above, if I have a written contract for a specific truck to be delivered on a specific date at a specific price, no I do not FEEL I should have to pay for insurance against a failure to deliver by the dealer. I mean, that's specifically what I'm paying the agent for in the first place isn't it? That's basic contract law. Whatever agreements, promises, problems, etc you may have with the subcontractors YOU chose are your concern, not mine.

DRSS

"If we're not supposed to eat animals, why are they made out of meat?"

"PS. To add a bit of Pappasonian philosophy: this single barrel stuff is just a passing fad. Bolt actions and single shots will fade away as did disco, the hula hoop, and bell-bottomed pants. Doubles will rule the world!"

05 November 2022, 22:52

Omnivorous_Bob

deleted

06 November 2022, 03:55

458Win

I have know Jeff Blair for almost 50 years and accompanied a friend on a few good hunts he had brokered, and been on some pretty shady ones.
What most people don't consider is that booking agents are simply middle men who put two sides of a negotiation together. They work only for themselves !
A hunting client pays them ( by a % of the hunt) to put them in touch with an outfitter and the outfitter forfeits that % for finding the client.

06 November 2022, 06:37

Saeed

quote:
Originally posted by 458Win:
I have know Jeff Blair for almost 50 years and accompanied a friend on a few good hunts he had brokered, and been on some pretty shady ones.
What most people don't consider is that booking agents are simply middle men who put two sides of a negotiation together. They work only for themselves !
A hunting client pays them ( by a % of the hunt) to put them in touch with an outfitter and the outfitter forfeits that % for finding the client.

You have the client.

You have the booking agent.

You have the outfitter.

ALL are responsible for the outcome of whatever they have agreed on.

If one fails to deliver, the others must work together to make sure whatever has gone wrong is corrected.

This is my own look at all business deals.

I have no idea how true this, but I have received messages that Blaire has had several negative reports.

The same about Martin Pieters.

Mark Sullivan and his booking agent cannot, under any circumstances, be defended.

They have, both here and on their websites and Youtube, advertised ILLEGAL hunts.

And we have had some members actually defend them here!!??

Thing is there are many crooked booking agents, many crooked outfitters, and many crooked clients.

I just wish they would deal with each other.

In Mark Sullivan case, they did!

06 November 2022, 06:47

dogcat

quote:
Originally posted by Bull Sprig:
Why bother paying an agent if he doesn't insure you get what you paid for? Don't agents carry insurance for just this type of thing?

No, they do not.

06 November 2022, 10:00

458Win

quote:
Originally posted by dogcat:
quote:
Originally posted by Bull Sprig:
Why bother paying an agent if he doesn't insure you get what you paid for? Don't agents carry insurance for just this type of thing?

No, they do not.

They do not and they often play one side against the other, taking no responsibility for the outcome.

And,in all honestly, how can they be held responsible if the outfitter turns out to be dishonest ? Or the hunter is physically unable, or unwilling, to do the hunt ?

The entire situation is ripe for dishonest people to take advantage of.

Clients and hunters should always be in direct contact with each other !
And the smart client who is first booking should always check references.

I wish outfitters, PH's and guides could do the same

06 November 2022, 15:37

p dog shooter

quote:
Clients and hunters should always be in direct contact with each other !
And the smart client who is first booking should always check references.

Easier said then done especially with over seas hunts.

Even more so in the past.

It is easier with the Net today. But still a lot of people post false information.

The most careful research does not always guarantee you well not be taken in by a smart crook.

Do you research and hopefully you get the hunt you paid for.

07 November 2022, 18:52

AnotherAZWriter

quote:
Originally posted by 458Win:
quote:
Originally posted by dogcat:
quote:
Originally posted by Bull Sprig:
Why bother paying an agent if he doesn't insure you get what you paid for? Don't agents carry insurance for just this type of thing?

No, they do not.

Phil,

Booking agents can at least refund their commission if the outfitter turns out to be a crook. Not difficult.

They do not and they often play one side against the other, taking no responsibility for the outcome.

And,in all honestly, how can they be held responsible if the outfitter turns out to be dishonest ? Or the hunter is physically unable, or unwilling, to do the hunt ?

The entire situation is ripe for dishonest people to take advantage of.

Clients and hunters should always be in direct contact with each other !
And the smart client who is first booking should always check references.

I wish outfitters, PH's and guides could do the same

09 November 2022, 01:57

MikeBurke

quote:
Originally posted by Saeed:
quote:
Originally posted by bobmn:
Saeed: We must not forget Martin Pieters

You are absolutely right.

Another bloody crook who should be on the list of criminals to avoid.

From a darling operator on AR along with being chairman of the ZPHGA to being placed in the same company as BWW. That is a fall from grace.

I know Bob (and others) had a bad hunt(s). I, along with several others on here had great hunts, but regardless of the situation, it is just sad to see him mentioned in this light. (Not arguing the validity of anybody's statements)

I have not seen him in years, but really did enjoy hunting with Martin back in the day.

13 November 2022, 04:36

Bull Sprig

I find it laughable that some are saying the agent's job is just to "connect the client with the outfitter." Oh really? I thought the agent's job was to research, vet, etc. outfitters and choose good ones that are going to provide good services to THEIR clients? If not......why the bloody hell would anyone need an agent nowadays when "direct to consumer marketing' is the norm?

I despise dishonest people......and they're lucky I'm not king.

19 November 2022, 04:37

drummondlindsey

I went down the rabbit hole last night and this still pisses me off.

If gun permits had been issued and hunt was actually purchased that hunt would have happened. I offered those ignorant bastards to do it for free if they’d just tell us what ranch had been paid. Had they actually been out they would have jumped on that. They didn’t

Unfortunately, when Larry took and completed the room temperature challenge a few years ago we lost hope of ever knowing what he and Jeff Blair discussed. Jeff Blair is going to stick to the script and keep doing business in the manner in which he’s accustomed. One day it will bite him in the ass bigger than this debacle

It’s still unconscionable to me that Jeff Blair didn’t even return the commission and doubled down with that statement we’ve all seen on this thread.

19 November 2022, 06:32

larryshores

quote:
Originally posted by drummondlindsey:
I went down the rabbit hole last night and this still pisses me off.

If gun permits had been issued and hunt was actually purchased that hunt would have happened. I offered those ignorant bastards to do it for free if they’d just tell us what ranch had been paid. Had they actually been out they would have jumped on that. They didn’t

Unfortunately, when Larry took and completed the room temperature challenge a few years ago we lost hope of ever knowing what he and Jeff Blair discussed. Jeff Blair is going to stick to the script and keep doing business in the manner in which he’s accustomed. One day it will bite him in the ass bigger than this debacle

It’s still unconscionable to me that Jeff Blair didn’t even return the commission and doubled down with that statement we’ve all seen on this thread.

Yup.

I have to wonder what is going on with BWW. They did not exhibit at the shows this year .

19 November 2022, 07:08

505 gibbs

I agree, a booking agent sets up a goat rope, regardless of intention, the least he could do is return every dime he retained to the client

19 November 2022, 07:42

Jason P

quote:
Originally posted by Bull Sprig:
I find it laughable that some are saying the agent's job is just to "connect the client with the outfitter." Oh really? I thought the agent's job was to research, vet, etc. outfitters and choose good ones that are going to provide good services to THEIR clients? If not......why the bloody hell would anyone need an agent nowadays when "direct to consumer marketing' is the norm?

I despise dishonest people......and they're lucky I'm not king.

Exactly!!

19 November 2022, 15:17

Saeed

Gone are the days when an agent actually goes hunting with a prospective PH before he recommends him.

19 November 2022, 22:38

drummondlindsey

quote:
Originally posted by Saeed:
Gone are the days when an agent actually goes hunting with a prospective PH before he recommends him.

Or they go to hunting one time for deer or elk here or go to Africa once and they become a self proclaimed expert and pull these stunts.

Blair said on his website that “We are not Part Timers, Dentists, Landlords, Realtors, Attorneys, Contractors, Gun Shop Owners, Car Salesmen, or retirees. We are Full Time Booking Agents, every day of the week.”

I’d trust the blue collar guys he’s claiming not to be that spent their hard earned money rather than trust Jeff Blair and his band of misfits that only care about their money and not their clients experience

20 November 2022, 00:48

larryshores

Their website appears to be down. Wonder if there is any significance to that.

20 November 2022, 17:52

Saeed

quote:
Originally posted by larryshores:
Their website appears to be down. Wonder if there is any significance to that.

May be he has gone the Mark Sullivan way?

Good riddance!

We certainly do NOT need criminals like these!

21 November 2022, 03:47

larryshores

I got a call this afternoon from a gentleman from Tennessee.

According to him, BWW took the money for Marco Polo hunts that never happened . The story he told sounds like outright theft.

He also told me about another person’s mule deer hunt that never happened. I am hazy on those details .

21 November 2022, 04:00

drummondlindsey

quote:
Originally posted by larryshores:
I got a call this afternoon from a gentleman from Tennessee.

According to him, BWW took the money for Marco Polo hunts that never happened . The story he told sounds like outright theft.

He also told me about another person’s mule deer hunt that never happened. I am hazy on those details .

I can’t wait to hear that story. Sadly, nothing will surprise me.

Would be really interested in the details of the mule deer hunt as well

21 November 2022, 04:13

Hipshoot

You guys keep Bitchin'!

Why don't you go and KICK THIS GUYS ASS!

Hip

21 November 2022, 04:40

larryshores

quote:
Originally posted by Hipshoot:
You guys keep Bitchin'!

Why don't you go and KICK THIS GUYS ASS!

Hip

Some of us would rather stay out of jail.

21 November 2022, 04:42

jdollar

Because that’s assault and would land you in jail?? And if you cross a state line to do it, it’s a federal offense?? Ain’t worth it….

01 December 2022, 21:39

drummondlindsey

quote:
Originally posted by larryshores:
I got a call this afternoon from a gentleman from Tennessee.

According to him, BWW took the money for Marco Polo hunts that never happened . The story he told sounds like outright theft.

He also told me about another person’s mule deer hunt that never happened. I am hazy on those details .

Any more information on this?

08 December 2022, 03:50

larryshores

quote:
Originally posted by drummondlindsey:
quote:
Originally posted by larryshores:
I got a call this afternoon from a gentleman from Tennessee.

According to him, BWW took the money for Marco Polo hunts that never happened . The story he told sounds like outright theft.

He also told me about another person’s mule deer hunt that never happened. I am hazy on those details .

Any more information on this?

I sent the gentleman info. Recommended he go to law enforcement.

He has retained an attorney .

16 December 2022, 22:18

larryshores

Their website has been down for a month or more . Not sure if this means anything.

25 December 2022, 08:25

Hasher

Back to the too

26 December 2022, 04:52

JTEX

quote:
Originally posted by Bull Sprig:
I find it laughable that some are saying the agent's job is just to "connect the client with the outfitter." Oh really? I thought the agent's job was to research, vet, etc. outfitters and choose good ones that are going to provide good services to THEIR clients? If not......why the bloody hell would anyone need an agent nowadays when "direct to consumer marketing' is the norm?

I despise dishonest people......and they're lucky I'm not king.

Yep! Me too!

05 February 2023, 03:00

larryshores

I don’t see BWW on the list of exhibitors at SCI.

05 February 2023, 03:41

Hasher

This thread should never die until Blair has been in the ground for a decade.

A pox upon his house.

05 February 2023, 19:13

larryshores

Their website has been down at least 3 months .

05 February 2023, 20:19

Saeed

Seems interesting that that all the crooks mentioned in this thread are no longer active!

Good riddance!

I have absolutely no sympathy with any of them!

Especially those who made it their life’s ambition to glorify themselves and berate their clients and their fellow professionals!