Ok, her is the deal. I do my deer hunting in very close. So I want a caliber that will work well with a short barrel,22inches, and a short action, and will hopefully be at the bottom of it's power curve on deer. I would like an impact velocity some where in the area of 2200 fps,as much caliber as possible without kicking the crap out of me, with as much extra available power as possible. So in theory7 I can use the same compact rifle for hunting deer in close, but if need be, I can jack up the velocity and power.
I looked at the .375 calibers, but I think those bullets are so heavy that they will definitely kick at 2200 fps. Maybe I am wrong about that.
I had been looking at the 35 whelen. A 180 gr bullet at 2200 fps would be very mild. No where to go but up in velocity and bullet weight. But I handled one today and it was very heavy. Not good at all for stalking.
I may look at a rem 673 in 350 rem mag, but they are kind of expensive, and I have not heard good things about them as far as accuracy goes.
If I have missed the obvious please let me know.
Thanks.

338 Federal would fit the bill. So would a 308 Win though.

frank4570,

Since your nick has 45-70 in it, why not just that? Or do like I do and use a 458 Winchester. You would not believe how effectively it kills and how little tissue is damaged. Recoil is what you make of it and I have yet to ever feel it when there is meat on the line.

Joe

Surely it has to be a 308.

Loaded at 2,200fps you can use 30-30 bullets to get positive expansion - something like a 130,150 or a 170gr round or flat nose.

They key is that these bullets are designed to expand at these velocities. You could do the same with pistol bullets and a 35 but rifle choice as you have found is much more limited.

Ruger model 77 in 358 Winchester.

obvious choice missed is the 35 remington. 200 grain bullet at 2000fps out of a 20 inch marlin carbine.

Are you going to be reloading/handloading for this rifle?

If so, then you might want to consider something a little off the wall, but from my shooting with it a very pleasurable gun and caliber, the 38-55.

Factory loaded rounds are terribly anemic for this cartridge, but handloads can be safely kicked up to some respectable velocities, and with the 250 gr. or larger bullets that can be loaded in this cartridge, you are looking at a more than adequate deer/black bear/feral hog gun out to 150 yards. JMO.

seems as though you are talking about the 358 win

My first thoughts were a 338 Federal then a 358 Win.

A 308 would be third, but I get the feeling that you want more diameter.

A 160-200gr, 338 caliber bullet at 2200 fps would be great. There is also some flexibility in there with increased velocities if needed.

Well my two cents is I would pick the .308 and I am not really a 308 fan. I have killed a few deer with it in a Model 600 Remington and I can see the utility. I do have a 35 Remington and I must say that nugman said all there is that needs to be said about it. I have shot a truck load of deer, black bear and hogs with mine and can say that it kills all out of proportion to its size and paper ballistics. I have never owned a 358 Winchester but it has to be a real killer if the 35 Remington kills like it does. I guess the 308 would be more versatile but one of the 35s would be perfect for what you want.

Ok, now. 358 or 350 mag?

300 sav a tryed and proven deer killer. 165gr at about 2400 not much kick kills deer well.

if lever actions are on the table, i think a 375 Winchester in a Win 94 Big Bore would suit you well. you can find them online for 300-400 all day long. I have seen factory ammo on shelves in many places, if you dont roll you own. the 45-70 is a good choice too, but recoil might be more then you want, again, unless you reload. In a bolt action, the 35 Rem and 358 Win sound like great choices as well. There is also the various 308 based rounds, or the x57's like the original 8x57, or the 9/9.5x57 to be a little off the beaten path. If you wanna play around with a wildcat, neck a 450 Marlin down to .40 cal to make a 400 Marlin and use pistol bullets. Sinlge shots....405 Winchester maybe?

quote:

Originally posted by frank4570:
Ok, now. 358 or 350 mag?

My choice would be the .358 Win. At times, brass for either round gets quite scarce especially as Winchester only makes .358 brass on a limited run basis and one never knows for sure if .350 Rem. brass will be available tomorrow. That's the bad news.
The good news is .358 Win. brass can be made by running .308 Win. brass through a full lenght .358 Win. sizing die and you have your brass almost ready to load. I said almost because I think you'll probably have to trim the necks slightly to insure they're square. To make .350 Rem. mag. brass would entail a lot more work. You'd have to resize some type of magnum brass, cut off the neck to proper length and either inside or outside ream the necks because the brass would be too thick in the neck.
As far as rifles go in .358, I think Ruger still makes one and Browning makes one in the BLR if you like lever actions.
FWIW, I have two tang safety Ruger 77s, a Mauser rebarreled to .358 Win., a Browning BLR and Savage 99, both in .358 Win. The browning is the lightest rifle in the bunch, the mauser nest then the Rugers and the heaviest seems to be the Savage although very close to the Rugers.
I also have three rifles in .35 Whelen and probably the lightest one in a factory gun would be the Remington Classic. My custom mauser is a tad heavier and the Ruger 77 RS is the heaviest of the three.
yes, I like the .35s.
Paul B.

A Remington model seven with a light 20 inch barrel in 358 Winchester is perfect. Fly a 200 grain Remington round nosed corelokt at 2450 fps into a deer and he will become barbecue. I push the same bullet a bit faster in my Whelen for hog hunting. My rifle for what you want is a light bolt rifle in 308. 170 grain RNCL's pushed to the majic 2450 fps.

7x57 with 175 grain round nose bullets or a 6.5x55 with 160 grain round nose bullets. if you are a handloader, pick up a krag and load up some 220 grainers. these are all long actions, but they are great, along with the 8x57 with a 200 grain speer or nosler partition. not much recoil with any of the above. with a short action, you could go with the 7-08, 260 or 300 savage.

quote:

Originally posted by MileHighShooter:
if lever actions are on the table, i think a 375 Winchester in a Win 94 Big Bore would suit you well. you can find them online for 300-400 all day long.

.375 Winnie was my thought as well.

But, dude...............where are you finding them for $300-$400???????? $500-$600 seems to be the entry-level price of admission.

No one has said anything about a 444 Marlin. I've had a couple of them and they are some real thumpers. I loaded 200gr Hornady JHP's in mine. They will roll a deer.

The perfect rifle for your application is the 325 wsm

I bought a .375 Ruger for a bear hunt in a few years. In the meantime, I'm hunting whitetails with light (230 grain) bullets and moderate velocity. Recoil is a little more than a 30-06 on the bench but not too bad.

I'm amazed that no one has mentioned the plain ol' thutty-thutty, mod. 94 with 170 gr. bullets. It's just what the doctor, or in this case, frank4570 ordered. Bear in Fairbanks

Take your favorite handling short action rifle and put a 358 win barrel between 20 and 22 inches on it . 308 win brass is cheap and plentiful and once thru a 358 size die and you brass ready to load. load 200 to 225 gr bullets of your choice and you have ample power to stop deer ,black bears ,elk and moose out past 200yds without loosening every filling in your mouth. If you do this the only question you will be asking yourself is "Why the hell didn't I do this years ago ! "

.338 Federal would do nicely, but why not a .45-70?